[rydenfan]

The one speaker that I have not owned nor auditioned is ATC..  Any one has experience with that?  I know Ted did and has talked to him at length.. I am very curious about ATC (accurate, transparent, dynamic?)

Who cares? With the way you describe your speakers why even think about another speaker??? Just sit back and enjoy the music 

Geesh!!! Why do you continue to exhibit rudeness towards fellow members? Maybe you should take your own advise and "Just sit back and enjoy the music".

Cheers,
Robin

Robin, I wasnt being rude in the least. I leave that duty for you.  BTW, I dont see you listed anywhere on this forum as a facilitator so what gives with you thinking you can police everything?

I just know it can be easy in this hobby to drive yourself crazy thinking of other things and was trying to help with a little friendly perspective.

[satfrat]

Robin,
Are you stalking Rydenfan?  What gives?  This is like the third or fourth thread in a row that you've slapped him on. 

I told Lance the same thing (i.e now that you've found the loves of your life, the Timepiece 3.0's, let go of the ATC idea and enjoy)...doesn't seem to be a rude idea at all!   

Why am I not surpirsed that you don't see blantant rudeness Ted? "Who Cares?" That sounds like blantant rudeness to me. If I were just starting out with 5 posts and got that response like that from asking a simple question I would think twice about asking a 6th. What you call stalking I call addressing rudeness. It's uncalled for IMHO. Sorry you don't agree but that's how I took his post and I'm stating it.

Cheers,
Robin

[satfrat]

The one speaker that I have not owned nor auditioned is ATC..  Any one has experience with that?  I know Ted did and has talked to him at length.. I am very curious about ATC (accurate, transparent, dynamic?)

Who cares? With the way you describe your speakers why even think about another speaker??? Just sit back and enjoy the music 

Geesh!!! Why do you continue to exhibit rudeness towards fellow members? Maybe you should take your own advise and "Just sit back and enjoy the music".

Cheers,
Robin

Robin, I wasnt being rude in the least. I leave that duty for you.  BTW, I dont see you listed anywhere on this forum as a facilitator so what gives with you thinking you can police everything?

I just know it can be easy in this hobby to drive yourself crazy thinking of other things and was trying to help with a little friendly perspective.

So you're the ONLY one who can add their $.02, is that it? Maybe if you'd lighten up a tad, I wouldn't be so motivated to say something. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Robin

[ted_b]

Lance,
To get this back on topic, I would say that David (Rydenfan) and I are simply saying that the ATC passives that are in the Timepiece 3.0 category (like the 19's or new 20's you and I discussed on the ohone a few times) are, if anything, similar to your new speakers but nowhere near a step ahead, let alone a leap ahead....and therefore not really worth worrying about.  In fact, passive ATC's, IMHO, are in the "good speaker" category; it's not until you rededicate your whole setup to active (i.e put away your own amps) ATC's that they even approach the slam, accuracy and realism of the SP Techs you have in your home.  And they are not as transparent, as I've said all along.  And that, to me, is what SP Tech is all about, microdynamics and microdetails that allow you to enter a new level of musical enjoyment, the level that has your brain imagining recording venue size, ambient cues from around the microphone, and most importantly, the harmonics and correct decay of woody sounds and metalic sounds and plucked sounds.....it's really something special IMHO.   

[targa]

thank you for your advice and inputs...  and no offense taken (on my part) at all.  the question raised about ATC is driven by my curiosity..  i agree that TP3 do so many right that i would not know what to improve upon (and if possible only marginally, i think..) 

i do have a second setup (Audio Cambridge 840a + Marantz DV7001, all modded) using Tyler Acoustics Ref Monitors that I think about upgrading..

[Goosepond]

Hi Lance,

This thread is very interesting to me and really hits home. I've got a pair of TP Mini's and shortly will have upgraded to a pair of TP 3.0's. The anticipation of what's coming is of course heightened because of what I'm already hearing out of the mini's. 

As far as changing the 3.0's, the thought of the mini-Rev's is already making me think of starting to save some more pennies. 

Gene

[targa]

Gene, many thanks!

All, as far as my planned review/ listening sessions, i plan to post my impressions of at least 3 more sessions to round up the review:

1.  live (e.g. Miles Davis record)
2.  acoustic piano (e.g. Horowitz playing)
3.  rock (e.g. Michael Jackson/ U2 record)

[jimdgoulding]

Lance-  Bout that thing a minute ago . . Robin thought he was coming to your defense, mate.  He should have addressed a comment, unprovocatively, to you.  He's a good guy.  He's taken me under his wing a time or two when I had been doin a little too much wine tasting.  I know you're cool.  No need to reply.

[targa]

Jim, yes.  i do recognize the intention absolutely and thank you, Robin!  i am the new kid on the block here and appreciate your and other support..  i did not mean to ignore that at all..

[satfrat]

Jim, yes.  i do recognize the intention absolutely and thank you, Robin!  i am the new kid on the block here and appreciate your and other support..  i did not mean to ignore that at all..

No problem, you were simply asking a question, there's nothing wrong with wanting to learn, I try and do it all the time.

Welcome to AudioCircle btw, a loudspeaker review is a bangup way to open things up.

Cheers,
robin

[targa]

yesterday, i dropped by a friend and listen to his Avantgarde Duo speakers (costs $15K - $17K) driven by $30K+ tube electronics and a turntable.  Want to share few comments before I forget.  Here were my impressions after 1 hour of listening:

-  details, details, details.  the amount of details was incredible.  Everything came through under a magnifying glass literally…  the system did create a live and BIG sound field
-  excellent baseline came through the music.  Outstanding piano sounds.  Every instrument note was distinct and clear with a lot of air between the voices
-  he played a few vinyl records and I noticed that his digital source was more detailed but less smooth
-  i also heard a bad noise floor on the background.  often an issue associated with high efficiently speakers if the system is not set up perfectly..

whatever reason, I was impressed but did not enjoy the music much.  i stood up many times during that 1 hour and lowered the volume because the louder he played the harder and harsher the sound got.  the system was “better” and more “expensive” than my system by far but I did not feel a desire to have such system or speakers as I walked away… 

i went home and listened to my system for 10 mins - just before turning in - to hear the difference since the sound of his system was still on my mind.  I noticed my system was much less detail and created a less lively sound.  However, two areas stood out as I listened to my system..  (1) the cymbals sounded more natural, less hard and harsh through my system and (2) the imaging was a bit better…  i think this has to do with a) better time alignment and 2) more accuracy of the TP3.0 

honestly, i can not say if my system lack of details when compared to the system of my friend is also because of the TP3 being less detail than the Duo - maybe.  what I can definitely say is that my source lacks the details/ bites of his source… 

and, i am tempted to upgrade my source because I think that is the weakest link of my system now.  i bought that in player in Jul last year directly from a company who made the mods and claimed that my player sounded better than a $23K EMM Labs Meitner combo…  well, please do not laugh

if you would ask me, i still prefer the TP3… yes, i overcome the temptation…  and lucky for me because that is also the most sensible thing to do for myself

[ted_b]

Anybody in the Houston area have a tricked out Modwright Transporter to loan Lance for a day?     or maybe a Weiss or Berkeley DAC?    You want musicality and details through your Timepieces?   

Seriously, I'm sure the modded BD player is very good.  David Schulte has a decent reputation.  But yes I'd start there, though, because the DACs in it are only going to give you so much (for 2 ch audio).  Also, if you enjoy your sound better than the mega-horns, then you're so far ahead to begin with.   

[satfrat]

Just a thought Lance but I've found that bad floor noise (ground noise) can also come from a lack of good power conditioning, especially when using high effeciency loudspeakers. The more you can lower that ground noise, the less of that high frequency "nasties" will show itself that often causes listeners fatigue. If you can get your hands on a different form of power conditioning than what you now have, just to try out like possibly Running Springs, BPT,,etc, it may be worth the effort.

Cheers,
Robin

[ted_b]

Just a thought Lance but I've found that bad floor noise (ground noise) can also come from a lack of good power conditioning, especially when using high effeciency loudspeakers. The more you can lower that ground noise, the less of that high frequency "nasties" will show itself that often causes listeners fatigue. If you can get your hands on a different form of power conditioning than what you now have, just to try out like possibly Running Springs, BPT,,etc, it may be worth the effort.

Cheers,
Robin

Robin,
? It wasn't his noise floor, it was his friends megasystem; as he said, likely due to the super hi-efficiency horns and not enough attention to that side of the detail.  Classic horn issue.  His is fine.

[satfrat]

Just a thought Lance but I've found that bad floor noise (ground noise) can also come from a lack of good power conditioning, especially when using high effeciency loudspeakers. The more you can lower that ground noise, the less of that high frequency "nasties" will show itself that often causes listeners fatigue. If you can get your hands on a different form of power conditioning than what you now have, just to try out like possibly Running Springs, BPT,,etc, it may be worth the effort.

Cheers,
Robin

Robin,
It wasn't his noise floor, it was his friends megasystem; as he said, likely due to the super hi-efficiency horns and not enough attention to that side of the detail.  Classic horn issue.  His is fine.

Thanks for the clarification Ted.

[targa]

Robin, i do use 1 power conditioning for all components:  Transparent PowerIsolotar 4.  Not bad.  However, what can be improved upon is using separate units for source and power..

Ted, you hit the nail on the head with the BluRay player..  the DAC in that unit is definitely a weak link.

coming back to the sound of cymbals through the Duo, like all past speakers i found that the cymbals always sounded hard, louder and more up front than other voices.  this created the impression that the drummer is sitting up front on stage rather than in the back..  you and i know that this band set-up can not be right.  i like - you can call me bias - how the cymbals sounded through the TP3: clear, detailed, smooth (not "soft") with outstanding transient... clear vibrating sound that lingered on...

also, on one of the track of a Miles Davis CD, i heard Miles playing his trumpet standing up front at the center stage and the drummer straight behind him.  i heard the notes of his trumpet and cymbals right on top of each other but i was able to clearly differentiate both voices and that cymbals came from behind him..  quite impressive.  often time, i heard the voices coming from either left or right channel, so differentiation of the voices in that case was not hard..  but when the voices were coming straight at me as described and i was able to distinguish the voices and the relative depth of each voice from where i sat..  well, only accurate speakers can do that, in my opinion… 

more later

[jimdgoulding]

Hay Lance, you in Houston?  I'm going to the Houston Audio Society meet this morning.  A turntable driven system is being featured with some uptown tube gear and some Daedalus tower speaks.  I'm taking an album made in Norway, Black Is The Color by Cyndee Peters on Opus 3 and Symphonic Dances by Rachmaninoff on Athena Records by The Dallas Sym.  The latter has some shocking full bodied dynamics and the former is Blumien miked acoustical music with tons of perspective and space.  If you live in the Houston area you got a bunch of new friends.

[FredT300B]

Hay Lance, you in Houston?  I'm going to the Houston Audio Society meet this morning...If you live in the Houston area you got a bunch of new friends.

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/houstonaudio/

[targa]

thanks, Fred, Jim!  i live in Conroe.  i see the link to the meeting location.  sounds like an excellent event to me..  will try to make it

[jimdgoulding]

I live in Conroe, too.  Send me a PM, Lance, and let's meet.  I'll tell you about the meet this morning.  Or, where you there and I didn't know it?