[MaxCast]

I bought mine at Agon as well.  One just sold recently for $500.  I really like the Pre-5 and will eventually incorporate it again as ted_b is going to do.  However, I lost my universal to the bedroom TV, I don't have my rear speakers hooked up and I don't know what I am going to do about the video interface as I have no video in my room now. 

The Pre-5 was better than any 5.1 receiver I have used in the system, even when using the venerable Pio 563's dac's.  Would love to snag a Denon 2910 or 3910 on the cheep.

[Russtafarian]

Don't discount the Oppo!  I've gone down both paths and the Oppo is a strong option.

I have a Sony TA-P (not for sale!) that I used for a few years with a Sony M-Ch SACD and the combo sounded wonderful.  Two years ago I picked up an Oppo 970 as an inexpensive player for DVD-A and HDMI video. 

Then the SACD player died and the Oppo was pressed into full-time duty.  I discovered that the remote volume on the Oppo sounds very transparent.  See this article on digital volume controls.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1208/index.html

So I now run the M-Ch outputs of the Oppo directly to the M-Ch amps and control volume with the remote.  For Hi-rez M-Ch discs this works as well or better than the Sony SACD/TA-P combo.  I give up some L&R channel resolution and tonality (though not much thanks to simple output stage mods) but gain in transparency and control for the C, LFE, SL, and SR channels.

Presently I'm experimenting with reworking the output stage of a Pioneer Elite DV-58 and am using this for stereo CD/SACD/DVD-A with great results.  But it has no digital volume control so to use it for M-Ch I have to pair it with the T-AP and that means more rackspace, cables and operational complexity.  I may still do this, but I'm in no hurry because I'm really happy with the Oppo for Hi-rez M-Ch discs. 

I just got the recent Grammy award winning Telarc Mussorgsky SACD and WOW! does that sound awesome.  The Great Gates of Kiev rocks the house!

Russ

[ted_b]

Russ,
Thanks.  I got to hear the master of that Grammy winning surround disc (Michael Bishop is the engineer) at Telarc, and it was incredible.  I emailed Michael a congrats (he likes my room; I felt like a groupie when I had him over) and hope to have him over once again now that the room has come together more than when he heard it.

Wow, My Oppo 980 directly in, huh?  I use a dedicated stereo amp and dedicated speakers for my music surrounds (SP Tech Continuums, different from side and rear movie surrounds) so I could go straight in, my SMS-1 has multiple sub inputs so I'm ok there, and could work another input on my stereo preamp for the l/r input (as i was planning on doing anyway, thereby reducing all the duplicate passthru cables for the TA-P) but the center would require a switch I guess.  Could you envision modding all the Oppo's analog outs (and I've read your "modyssey", so I know that you've experimented with many PS issues, etc.?)  I wouldn't need the tranformers at the l/r cuz I'm going to a stereo preamp (unity gain settings) but would love to have you do the PS thing for the DAC(s) to turn it into a "multichannel" music machine....anyway...interesting stuff.

[Jampot]

I was sufficiently inspired' by Russ' original thread about his 970 mods to have a 980 modded by Ric Schultz (don't have the skills for DIY). I had all the analogue channels modded and like it a lot aa

I have it wired via the Sony TA-P and use the second set of inputs to fool around with 4 channel vinyl occasionally

Must look out for the Mussorgsky.

Jim

[Russtafarian]

A couple issues I should address before you guys take me far too seriously.  I do hi-fi on an extremely tight budget, so SOTA gear and results are generally beyond my reach.  But I try to get close. 

I haven't bothered modding the surround outputs of either my Oppo 970 or 980.  I may in the future but it's low on the priority list.  And the Oppo does have its limits.  Stock it's somewhat listenable, with mods it sounds pretty good, but it will never challenge the Modwright players, not even close.  So consider the Oppo option for what it is; a budget player that can sound pretty good with some tweaking.

Also, there's a peculiar difference between the 970 and the 980 when playing back M-C discs.  I don't use a center channel speaker.  The 970 is one of the few players that will decode a phantom center channel on hi-rez M-C discs.  The 980, like most universal players doesn't.  Some of the discs the 970 will decode center channel and the 980 won't are The Doors DVD-As, Polyphonic Spree DVD-A, Crowded House DVD-A,  James Taylor SACD, Mary Chapin Carpenter SACD, and others that don't come to mind.

Russ

[dvenardos]

Nuforce started consulting for Oppo on their analog section with the 983 and the upcoming BlueRay player.

[Russtafarian]

Nuforce started consulting for Oppo on their analog section with the 983 and the upcoming BlueRay player.

That should help, but the limitation with the Oppos has always been the DAC chip.  They use a multi-channel, single-ended, voltage output dac chip.  What limits the sound quality is the single ended voltage output.  Voltage output means an op amp has been integrated into the DAC for current to voltage conversion and filtering.  Single ended means the negative leg for all channels are tied to ground. 

This approach is inexpensive to implement and can sound pretty good.  But it will never have the sound quality potential of a differential current output DAC.  As my friend told me (who's built and modified a number of DACs and SACD players), when the I/V conversion is built into the chip, the damage is done and no amount of circuitry in front of it can recover what's lost.

Now just using current output differential DACs doesn't automatically make better sound.  But it opens up the option for a high quality transformer, FET or tube differential output stage that will extract more music with less noise from the DAC.  Modwright, McCormack, and the EAR Acute are examples of players that put a killer output stage on current output differential DACs and get SOTA performance as a result.

All that said, I still like my Oppo.  For the money it can't be beat.  But don't think it will ever rise to the performance of the players I just mentioned.

Russ

[ted_b]

Russ,
True about MW, EAR but they don't address the multichannel side (the subject of this thread).  My Modwright Denon 3910 has gloriously musical 2 channel tubed performance, but the mch outs are stock Denon 3910.  If those stock outputs are only marginally worse or the same than what Ric could do (for his $75 mch Oppo add-on) then having to also have him mod the front half (2 channel) of the Oppo is wasted money for me.  In the words of the French castle guard "I already got one!"   

[Crimson]

I'm another happy TA-P owner here, in fact it's part of a whole 9000 series 'stack' (the E, N, P, and XA).

[Philistine]

Looking for a list of six channel preamps. I have decided to dump my av pre/pro and since I am about 90% music my ideal solution would be a multi-channel analog preamp. Although I may end up going with an Oppo (maybe there upcoming BD player) and use its volume control and a switch for two channel. So far what I have seen are upwards of 1K and I don't really want to spend that much. What have you heard of or used?

This is what I have seen:
Parasound Halo P7 http://www.parasound.com/halo/p7.php
McCormack MAP-1 http://www.mccormackaudio.com/map1.html
Audio Research MP1 http://www.audioresearch.com/MP1.html
Bel Canto Pre6 http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_pre6.html

I demoed the MAP-1 and the Pre6 a few years ago, very impressed with both and difficult to separate musically.
McCormack couldn't get me access to a demo piece so I had to buy a used one from A'gon, Bel Canto loaned me a Pre6.  I finished keeping the MAP-1 only to avoid having to resell it, if it wasn't for this I would have preferred the Bel Canto based on its styling.  
Both great products.

[JoshK]

Its a bit amazing to me that more manufacturers don't make these.  Or maybe just not enough folks have seen the need.

One can use this for
1) multi-amped systems
2) with DVD player with built-in decoding
3) multichannel audio players
4) HT PC's with pro audio/multichannel sound cards

That is just what I can come up with quickly.

[Dan Driscoll]

Its a bit amazing to me that more manufacturers don't make these.  Or maybe just not enough folks have seen the need.

One can use this for
1) multi-amped systems
2) with DVD player with built-in decoding
3) multichannel audio players
4) HT PC's with pro audio/multichannel sound cards

That is just what I can come up with quickly.

Yeah, but most HT receivers and processors can do all that and more. MC analog preamps really are niche products that are designed for what is a pretty small small segment of the market.

[dvenardos]

Its a bit amazing to me that more manufacturers don't make these.  Or maybe just not enough folks have seen the need.

One can use this for
1) multi-amped systems
2) with DVD player with built-in decoding
3) multichannel audio players
4) HT PC's with pro audio/multichannel sound cards

That is just what I can come up with quickly.

Yeah, but most HT receivers and processors can do all that and more. MC analog preamps really are niche products that are designed for what is a pretty small small segment of the market.

Yes, but you have to spend a lot of money to get one that is really good with two channel.

Thanks for everyone's input. I have decided to build one based on the GoldPoint attenuator, looks like I need the 20K version. I am going to build it with a 6 channel switch using four stereo inputs, two six channel inputs, and six channel output. Should be fun.