VR4 SR MkII vs. the VR5 Anniversaries..

es347 · « **on:** 1 Feb 2009, 08:53 pm »

Per bentknee's suggestion, I am posting to ask if anyone here as been lucky enough to directly compare the MKIIs and the Anniversaries driven with the same electronics. Albert and Joe, if you are reading this, your input...totally objective of course

... is more than welcome also.

Thanks.

Gavin Hadley

economides · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 09:29 am »

Dear es347

I used to own VR4 MKII and I upgraded to VR5 Anniversary and the difference is huge!!! They are a big step forward compared with the 4's. Although they use the same box they are totally different speakers and the Annies are utilizing the new crossover concept of Albert. The 5's are comparable with speakers many times their price

The rest of my system

Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse pre
Edge NL12 Special Edition amp
Emm Labs CDSA

es347 · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 02:47 pm »

Hi economides,

I was afraid that was what I might hear. Did you upgrade your 4s or sell and buy the anniversaries? Thanks....I think

Gavin

economides · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Feb 2009, 10:46 am »

Dear es347

I sold the 4's and bought the 5's . It is amazing that after the change i started upgrading the rest of my system (Edge NL 12 Se replacing Edge NL 10 and Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse replacing Aesthetix Calypso) and the speakers always suprised me with their level of performance which was upwarded with each upgrade !

Before the 4's i was having a Sonus Faber Amati Anniversarrio and in the between the 4 and 5 I was borrowing a Kharma 3.2 Ref Believe me the 5's are way ahead those two !!

I hope I am not putting you in trouble (financially speaking those days)

Andrew

es347 · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Feb 2009, 03:22 pm »

Hey economides,

I have no one to blame but myself. As far as being in trouble, I have just the opposite problem here at home. Most guys have a check and balance...you may have heard the term "wife"? Well my wife always encourages me to go for it and with the VR5 Anniversaries, it's been nothing but encouragement. When I was buying all my McIntosh equipment, she was right there beside me, patiently waiting, watching and encouraging. That's the main problem...no check and balance. Truly a blessing and a curse. Thanks for your feedback and interest.

Gavin Hadley

DRjam · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Feb 2009, 05:57 am »

LOL Gavin. When you get that check and balance back go for it. No stoppin you specially with an enthusiastic "wife" like that. IMO.

JackD201 · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Feb 2009, 08:32 am »

After months of intensive training, we've come to the moment of truth! Gavin Hadley eases himself on the starting blocks, the starter pistol is up ................... BANG!!!!!!!!!

Delacroix · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Feb 2009, 02:58 pm »

Man, those VR7SE's on the 'Gon just sold for less than $16k.....now you HAVE to step up to the 5 Anni....such luck!

economides · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Feb 2009, 03:13 pm »

Dear Gavin

What a lucky guy you are !!! Your wife encouraging you on buying Hi end stuff

But being serious you will be suprised with the difference between 4's and 5's in a system like yours

Best Regards

Andrew

es347 · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Feb 2009, 05:36 pm »

Woah is me I guess right? I hope that "bang" Jack refers to is not my 401K...not likely since it would be more of a whimper.

As it turns out, the gentleman who has a very thorough and positive review of the VR5 Anniversaries out there, Greg Weaver--Audio Analyst, lives about 2.5 hrs north of us here in the hoosier state. Greg owns a pair of VR5 Anniversaries and has graciously invited Pam and I to visit for a listen later this month. He told me not to come if I wasn't serious about buying them because once I hear them....you know the rest. I am sure he speaketh the truth. One thing that I refuse to let haunt me is the possible need to start upgrading my electronics due to now driving these world class speakers. I am hopeful...make that convinced...that my MAC amplifiers both pre and power can coexist with the VR5 annies quite nicely. If they cannot, they will anway.

Man, just think of how many cds I could buy in lieu of the speakers...

Alas, it's all about the music...well almost all about the music.

If it was all about the music, VSA speaker cabinets would be unfinished birch plywood and MAC electronics would have nary a single aqua-blue lighted meter.

Gavin "let's spend the kids' inheritance" Hadley

Albert Von Schweikert · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 03:56 am »

Hello VSA Owners,
Since 50% of the calls to our factory concern the differences between the similar-looking VR-4 SR and VR-5 series, I thought I would write a short piece to explain the reasoning behind both models. First, to explain why the cabinets appear to be similar, let's take Porsche as an example. If you have driven a 911 series (around $75,000 in California), you would wonder why Porsche would want to improve upon such an icon of performance and fame.

The 911 has been continuously refined since 1963, while my VR-4 has only been in existence since 1976, when we built the first version in the lab at Cal Tech ('twas called the Vortex back then). In the past 33 years, I have spent thousands of hours working to improve upon the original version, so we are now in the 14th iteration of this iconic design (now called VR-4 SR Mk3). However, as Porsche discovered several decades after introducing the 911, there are customers who have the means and will to encourage designers to "outdo" themselves. I was quite amazed to drive a 911 Turbo Carrera 4 a few years ago, wondering how that 50-year old platform could accept such an incredible boost in power, handling, and finesse. Price at almost twice the cost of the standard 911, the Turbo may not be for everyone, but if you have driven one, you will understand why it exists! It may look almost identical to the "standard" 911, but the performance is so extreme that many drivers have not been willing to even attempt to find its limits. The blinding speed and acceleration will leave you breathless, and your only thoughts are: everyone should experience this "feeling" at least once in their lifetime.

The VR-5 Anniversary may "look" like the VR-4 series, but actually has nothing in common with it except for the size and shape, which we find pleasing enough to keep for the "5" series. Here are the major differences in engineering, then I'll comment about what these engineering differences mean to the important thing: the sound.

1) The VR-5 uses transducers that are highly upgraded by the original manufacturer of the VR-4 series drive units. The upgrades consist of better diaphragms, suspensions, and "motors" (voice coil, magnet, top plate, and pole piece). The VR-5 transducers cost 4 to 10 times more, depending on the driver, and although the cosmetic differences are not all that obvious, the performance differences are huge. The upgraded drivers have far lower coloration and distortion and have much faster transient responses due to the better diaphragms, suspensions, and motors. This is the equivalent of the Turbo motor versus the "standard" 911 six cylinder motor.

2) The crossover parts and circuit design of the VR-5 were designed with a "no holds barred" approach on the expense or complexity. Much of the circuit design was developed by a computer program, inspired and commissioned by myself, by a friend who is one of the Chief Scientists at the Artificial Intelligence Project (who wishes to remain anonymous). The new crossover circuit "matches" the speed of the drivers so that they sound "as one" and is a concept originally developed for our new UniField Model 3. Be looking for my White Paper on this concept to appear on our website next month if you have an interest in "passive servo control" crossover circuitry as used in the VR-5 Anniversary/UniField 3 models.

3) The cabinet design of both models is similar in external construction, but the VR-5 Anniversary has different internal damping and tuning, based on the transducer designs and necessary improvements to enhance transparency in the internal air flow of the VR-5 Anniversary. The additional damping material and port tuning enhance bass and midrange clarity, along with adding more dynamic range potential without distortion at high volume levels.

4) The platinum-plated WBT TopLine binding posts of the VR-5 Anniversary approach the cost of fine jewelry but is an integral part of the clarity.

SONIC DIFFERENCES
The sum total of these engineering aspects results in a speaker system that is as transparent and color-less as an electrostatic system, but has the dynamic range and "punch" of very large "box" systems priced at $100,000 due to the extremely high efficiency and power handling. Perhaps the most thrilling aspect of the VR-5 Anniversary is its sound-stage magic - if you have the right setup, the speakers will project a three-dimensional image that floats in the air, all around the room. We have been accused of using surround sound speakers at various shows, as listeners could not believe that just one pair of front speakers could envelope the room as well as they heard from the VR-5 Anniversary.

However, as with all high performance equipment, be it a car or stereo system, the ancillary equipment and setup are extremely important to the sum total of the sound field. The VR-4 SR series is more tolerant of a poor signal, as it is not as transparent or honest. However, if you have the will, money, and desire to hear the best that modern hi-fi equipment can offer, satisfy your curiosity with a personal audition of our VR-5 Anniversary speaker system.

Happy Listening, Albert Von Schweikert

douglesc · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 06:08 am »

Hi Albert:

Thanks for the post and information. I have a question about the midrange driver I hope you will answer. The mid range for the VR5 used to be exactly like the one in the VR9 &11,Why the change and could you comment on the two mid ranges.
What are your thoughts on speakers that use ribbons for their midrange and high frequency vs. the way you do it???? Thanks in advance.

Douglas

economides · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 01:57 pm »

I completely agree with what Albert wrote.

As I wrote before I owned a VR4 SRII and changed it with the new VR5 Anni and the differnece is huge....

Also the last six months I have heard some other very expensive speakers like Verity Sarastro (40,000 euros), Magico V3, Hansen Prince, Kharma 3.2 and the 5's blew all of them.

As Albert says, with the 5's you can use the finest of equipment available. I currently use
Pre amp Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse
Amp Edge NL 12.1 Special Edition
CD EmmLabs CDSA latest edition

Andrew Economides
Athens, Greece

JackD201 · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Feb 2009, 12:02 pm »

Ehehem.

Did Mr. Hadley make that 2.5 hour drive to the G-Man's abode last weekend? The curious want to know. aa

es347 · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Feb 2009, 03:34 pm »

Mr. Hadley will be making that trek northward this coming Saturday armed with cds and who knows, maybe even...shudder...an LP or two. I expect my over-the-calf socks to be literally blown off by the VR5 Anniversaries and will report results. I am currently beating myself up now with the possibility of upgrading my old venerable Planar 3/Grace to the new P3 with the Exact 2 cartridge. I borrowed a P2/Bias over the weekend and must admit it outperformed by circa 1978 setup. My wife has a fondness for the bright red plinth so looks like it will be the P3 with RB301 arm. And yes, the vinyl vs. cd debate may rage on, but as a die-hard digital guy, I must admit to leaning slightly toward the analogue side. So here we go again: record cleaner, stylus brush, up and down from the listening chair...what the heck am I doing?

htradtk · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Feb 2009, 08:33 pm »

Gavin,

Have a blast Saturday! :drool:Don't forget your checkbook.

Oh, those old days with the turntable, constant cleaning the records, well you analog
guys (gals) can reminisce all you want. I'm sticking with the digital world.

Henry

es347 · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Feb 2009, 09:47 pm »

Just between you and me Henry, this is an exercise in nostalgia more than anything else...that and adding a touch of color to the decor.

I have maybe 100 albums, many of which have been purchased in cd, but sitting down with a nice cabernet and once again hearing that warm, lush analogue sound, albeit with some pops and cracks, was a trip for both of us. But at my age, a remote has become much more a necessity than an accessory so I'm not quite ready to sever all connections with the digital camp.

Gavin

economides · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Feb 2009, 02:03 pm »

Quote from: es347 on 17 Feb 2009, 03:34 pm

Mr. Hadley will be making that trek northward this coming Saturday armed with cds and who knows, maybe even...shudder...an LP or two. I expect my over-the-calf socks to be literally blown off by the VR5 Anniversaries and will report results. I am currently beating myself up now with the possibility of upgrading my old venerable Planar 3/Grace to the new P3 with the Exact 2 cartridge. I borrowed a P2/Bias over the weekend and must admit it outperformed by circa 1978 setup. My wife has a fondness for the bright red plinth so looks like it will be the P3 with RB301 arm. And yes, the vinyl vs. cd debate may rage on, but as a die-hard digital guy, I must admit to leaning slightly toward the analogue side. So here we go again: record cleaner, stylus brush, up and down from the listening chair...what the heck am I doing?

Gavin fasten your seatbelt !! aa

es347 · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Feb 2009, 02:30 pm »

econonmides...

For the VR5s or the P3??

htradtk · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Feb 2009, 12:12 am »

Gavin,

I remember those days, however, back in the analog heyday, I didn't make what I make today, so I just had my $300 Denon TT and a $75 Ortofon cartridge, just your basic setup, but I got much enjoyment out of it. Oh, those 75+ LP's I sold, wish I could have them back.

Fasten your seatbelt Saturday, enjoy those "Annie's".

Take care,
Henry