[cryoparts]

Thanks Lee 
Glad you're enjoying them so much!!

Loving them.   

I will try and post my impressions on them soon, then they are going in cryo.  While they are in cryo, I am going to start running in the Genalex KT-77's.

Lee

[Audioclyde]

I eagerly await your comparison with the GL reissue KT77's.  I have tried the GK reissue KT66's (nice tubes, but somehow I prefer the midrange magic I get from nice NOS el34's in my amp, like Amp/Mullard and Tesla brown base el34's).  I've been close to buying some of the GL KT77's to try but haven't pulled the trigger yet.  As you might guess, my preference is for the sound to be a bit on the warmer side, but of course I don't want to go too far and loose too much detail or top end extension.

[JakeJ]

Hi Lee,

I have been following this thread and was wondering, do you have any updates?

Thanks,
Jake

[cryoparts]

Sorry, I have been so busy the past couple of weeks that I haven't had much extra time to surf AC.  I will endeavor to get some thoughts together ASAP and post them.

I will say that these tubes are officially 'amazing'.  Smooth, detailed, open, airy...just overall wonderful! In the M520 Eastern Electric amp, they are magical.  This unassuming budget $1800 amp, with the Shuguang Treasure tubes, Mullard GZ34 rectifiers, Mullard EF86 driver tubes and Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7 phase splitters is just flat out amazing for the price.

I can't imagine that anyone could go wrong with these Shugaung Treasure tubes. 

More to come:  I still haven't cryo'd them, I've been digging the sound so much, I haven't felt a pressing need to treat them.  However, I think I will next week.  And, once I pull them out and put them through cryo, I'll start doing some comparisons.

Peace,

Lee

Hi Lee,

I have been following this thread and was wondering, do you have any updates?

Thanks,
Jake

[Tyson]

I'm not sure that cryo is always a good choice for tubes.  I find that it often gives a more brittle, solid-state type presentation.  It might be OK in a soft/warm circuit, but for something more modern like the VTA ST70 or VTL ST85's, my Siemens 12at7's sounded better without cryo treatment.  On the other hand, the SED =C= EL34's are very good with it, so maybe it's a crap shoot.  Only one way to find out, I guess...

[cryoparts]

Hey Tyson!  Your AC scotch thread is famous over at Head-Fi as well.   

I've cryo'd thousands of tubes, most of the tubes I do these days are from return customers, so they must like the results.  I have a cstomer who sent me a NOS quad of WE 300B's one time and then sent me more of the same after the first four.  The first go 'round must have went well!   

For my personal gear, I've had good success thus far with cryo'd tubes.  Some tubes it made a large difference (Winged C EL34's, Sovtek 5AR4's, Russian 6C45P's, RCA 12FK6, Siemens EF80 and Chinese 6BM8's),  and with some it only made a 'slight" difference (RCA clear top 12AU7, Chinese 5AR4 and a Russian EZ81).

I will be experimenting with Mullard GZ34's, some Amperex BB EZ80's, some BB 12AU7's, some assorted other EZ80's, some Mullard EF86's, some Genalex KT77's, and more, over the next few weeks/months so I can talk intelligently about the results after these are done and burned in.

FWIW--I have personally found that tubes (or most anything else for that matter) that goes through cryo, needs to be run in for quite a while after to really open up again.  Also, different cryo processes produce different results.

In any event, the above is all my opinion and what I hear, I don't want to turn this into an ad for my services and business, so I'll shut up.   

Peace,

Lee

I'm not sure that cryo is always a good choice for tubes.  I find that it often gives a more brittle, solid-state type presentation.  It might be OK in a soft/warm circuit, but for something more modern like the VTA ST70 or VTL ST85's, my Siemens 12at7's sounded better without cryo treatment.  On the other hand, the SED =C= EL34's are very good with it, so maybe it's a crap shoot.  Only one way to find out, I guess...

[JakeJ]

Thanks, Lee. Hmmm, make me wonder what they would do in a higher budget amp like my VAC PA-160's. Of course there is a slight obstacle in that I need an octet! 

Tyson - I agree that cryo treatment can and most likely would have varying effects on different tube types, both small signal and outputs. I say Kudos to Lee for having the cojones to try it on his very own set. I hope he got "industry friend" pricing so the risk to his wallet is reduced! 

Anticipation!!

Cheers,
Jake

Edited for the missing word "got". 

[cryoparts]

Cryo'ing tubes is a calculated risk, however, I've done so many tubes now that I'm not really worried anything bad will happen.

I bet an octet of the 'Treasures' would sound amazing, indeed, in the VAC's. 

Peace,

Lee

Thanks, Lee. Hmmm, make me wonder what they would do in a higher budget amp like my VAC PA-160's. Of course there is a slight obstacle in that I need an octet! 

Tyson - I agree that cryo treatment can and most likely would have varying effects on different tube types, both small signal and outputs. I say Kudos to Lee for having the cojones to try it on his very own set. I hope he "industry friend" pricing so the risk to his wallet is reduced! 

Anticipation!!

Cheers,
Jake

[Tyson]

I've also heard rumors that the "Black Bottle" tubes are actually just cryo'd versions of their standard tubes, which seems would make another cryo round redundant.  The KT77's (of which I have a bunch of the GL re-issues) might go from great to spectacular.

My personal philosophy is that new production tubes and average NOS tubes are good candidates for cryo, while things like Telefunkens, Mullards, Amperex, etc for NOS are probably at a level of quality (and cost!) that really makes cryo'ing them not my first choice.

[Tyson]

And now that I think about it, I seem to have had better luck with power tubes and cryo than with small signal tubes.  Small signal tubes seem to be a crapshoot, but power tubes seem to always improve.

I'd not considered cryo-ing a rectifier tube!  I've got a JJ 5AR4 lying around I might have to get around to doing some day. 

[Listens2tubes]

I love this stuff!!

[cryoparts]

I've also heard rumors that the "Black Bottle" tubes are actually just cryo'd versions of their standard tubes, which seems would make another cryo round redundant.  The KT77's (of which I have a bunch of the GL re-issues) might go from great to spectacular.

I don't think so on the Treasure's, however, Ian would be the one to answer this definitively. 

How many KT-77 reissues do you have?  Want to experiment?  Send me some of them and I'll cryo them gratis for you and you can report the results here on AC.  We can compare notes as I will be cryo'ing my KT77's soon.

My personal philosophy is that new production tubes and average NOS tubes are good candidates for cryo, while things like Telefunkens, Mullards, Amperex, etc for NOS are probably at a level of quality (and cost!) that really makes cryo'ing them not my first choice.

Since I do the cryo myself, eventually everything in my system(s) make it into the chamber...I'm ill!   

Peace,

Lee

[iGrant]

I've also heard rumors that the "Black Bottle" tubes are actually just cryo'd versions of their standard tubes, which seems would make another cryo round redundant.  The KT77's (of which I have a bunch of the GL re-issues) might go from great to spectacular.

No the Shuguang Treasure Series have nothing to do with Cryo treatment to tubes. This is confirmed by us in person with Shuguang when we met at China's Audio show in Dec 2008.

The Treasure series have used new materials for constructing the tubes along new processes. Many extra steps of matching throughout production. Cryo tubes are not very popular in China - not sure why, but I only see one business offering such services.

- Grant Fidelity

[Tyson]

I've also heard rumors that the "Black Bottle" tubes are actually just cryo'd versions of their standard tubes, which seems would make another cryo round redundant.  The KT77's (of which I have a bunch of the GL re-issues) might go from great to spectacular.

I don't think so on the Treasure's, however, Ian would be the one to answer this definitively. 

How many KT-77 reissues do you have?  Want to experiment?  Send me some of them and I'll cryo them gratis for you and you can report the results here on AC.  We can compare notes as I will be cryo'ing my KT77's soon.

My personal philosophy is that new production tubes and average NOS tubes are good candidates for cryo, while things like Telefunkens, Mullards, Amperex, etc for NOS are probably at a level of quality (and cost!) that really makes cryo'ing them not my first choice.

Since I do the cryo myself, eventually everything in my system(s) make it into the chamber...I'm ill!   

Peace,

Lee

I have a dozen GL KT77's, all sitting an a drawer.  I have two VTA ST70 amps, so I use a total of 8 output tubes at a time in my system (actively biamped VMPS RM40's), and I try to keep the tubes the same on both amps for consistent transition between mids and highs.  Right now I have 8 SED =C= EL34's in my 2 amps, so the KT77's are just sitting idle.

BTW, can your amp run other output tubes?  The KT77's are pretty good, but I've also run Gold Lion KT88's and those are REALLY something.  I've not tried the Gold Lion KT66's, I've got a quad sitting in my drawer, just waiting till I get a little bored of the EL34's.

[richidoo]

Hey JakeJ, I need an octet too, so it's a big purchase compared to regular Shuguangs at $10/ea on eBay. But I did receive a discount offer in Grant's email newsletter today. 

My experiences with el34 tubes are usually very different than most peoples' opinions. I wonder if it is my amps higher than normal plate voltage, 575V       What kind of plate volts are your el34 amps? Tyson, Lee, and others?
Thanks
Rich

[cryoparts]

I'll PM you about the cryo details, see if we can hatch a plan.

I think the M520 can only use EL34's or KT77's, I'll check with Bill @ Morningstar to see.

Lee

I have a dozen GL KT77's, all sitting an a drawer.  I have two VTA ST70 amps, so I use a total of 8 output tubes at a time in my system (actively biamped VMPS RM40's), and I try to keep the tubes the same on both amps for consistent transition between mids and highs.  Right now I have 8 SED =C= EL34's in my 2 amps, so the KT77's are just sitting idle.

BTW, can your amp run other output tubes?  The KT77's are pretty good, but I've also run Gold Lion KT88's and those are REALLY something.  I've not tried the Gold Lion KT66's, I've got a quad sitting in my drawer, just waiting till I get a little bored of the EL34's.

[cryoparts]

Hmmm...Bill, do you know off the top of your head?  I can check if Bill doesn't know, but I don't really feel like tearing into the amp to measure it, unless I have to.

Peace,

Lee

Hey JakeJ, I need an octet too, so it's a big purchase compared to regular Shuguangs at $10/ea on eBay. But I did receive a discount offer in Grant's email newsletter today. 

My experiences with el34 tubes are usually very different than most peoples' opinions. I wonder if it is my amps higher than normal plate voltage, 575V       What kind of plate volts are your el34 amps? Tyson, Lee, and others?
Thanks
Rich

[Tyson]

I'm running less than 400v, and if you are running higher, that could absolutely explain your lackluster results w/EL34s.  The KT77's might be just the ticket for you.

[cryoparts]

As an aside, I have had the amp on now, non stop 24 hours a day, for 3-4 weeks with nary a problem or complaint from the amp, or the tubes.  So, reliability on these tubes seems to be good.

Peace,

Lee

[Bill O'Connell]

I spoke with Alex Yeung(Mr.Eastern Electric) and he said the plate voltages to the EL34's on the M520 are about 420v.
 Lee ,you are correct that the M520 can only run EL34,KT77,6CA7's.