[bowmore]

I live a many, many hours drive from any hifi dealers. I need an affordable int. amp. My speakers are efficient and I have a massive sub.
The 3 that are peaking my interest are:

Simaudio Moon I5
NAD M3
Yamaha A-S2000

I also would be interested in alternatives especially if you have heard them compared to the above.

Thanks.

[wilsynet]

At 8 ohm impedance, the Simaudio Moon I5 is rated at 70 watts/channel, the NAD M3 at 180 watts/channel, and the Yamaha A-S2000 at 120 watts/channel.

If you have high efficiency speakers, I would be surprised if you would need anything more than, say, 20 watts/channel.  And if 20 watts/channel is sufficient, I'd put more money into the quality of the first watt rather than how many watts are delivered.

Could you give the make and model of the speakers and their efficiency rating?  Your notion of efficient speakers and my notion of efficient speakers may be very different.

Personally, I really like the Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2 Integrated.  If 30 watts/channel is enough for your speakers (it probably is), it's hard to beat the 30.2.  It's a bona fide high-end component and the 30-day trial makes it practically risk free.

[carusoracer]

I have not heard any of them side by side. The Moon I3 is very good, further up the line even better, albeit pricey.
Good luck.

[bowmore]

My speakers are a line array of ( Fostex FE127e per side, 100dB/1w/1m. 4 ohm (series/paralleled). I have a separate 1000w class D amp running the subwoofers. From where I sit, 100w would get me about 105dB peaks. I don't always want to get that loud, but if the system is capable of that, then I don't have to worry about distortion or clipping or blowing something up. Of course theoretically a low power amp should be enough, but more power usually yields a fuller richer sound. Even if you play a 25 amp at just 1 or 2 watts, the hundred watt amp of the same quality at the same power sounds noticeable better. It was true of the McIntosh amps I used to demo when I was a stereo salesman. It was also true of a number of other amps I had demoed. I listen mostly to blues and old rock and to get it to 95dB at my seat, I need enough power to make it 105dB at the speaker.

The main reason I named the 3 amps I did, was they have all been reviewed as having a full, ripe, rich sound as opposed to the thin, tight & bright sound typical of a lot of British int. amps, but I am open to alternatives. The NAD can be had used for $1400, the Simaudio lists for $1500 and the Yamaha can also be had for a lot less than the RWA 30.2. If you have heard the RWA, how does it sound when you run it up pretty loud?

[TONEPUB]

Sorry, only have a Sim I-7 and it's fantastic!

[denjo]

I heard the smaller Yamaha S1000 and was pretty impressed with what I heard! I like the retro look of the Yamaha. It seems that the A series is Yamaha's intention to get back into serious, audiophile quality hifi equipment. You might want to audition the Regas as well (not thin or bright sounding if used with the right speakers).

And, of course there is the LFD Zero Mark III (see other thread) which enthused Sam Tellig to declare it as the best sounding integrated he has ever heard!

Best of luck in your search!

Dennis

[mr_bill]

Sorry, only have a Sim I-7 and it's fantastic!

Do you drive your CLX's with the SIm I-7 and use it in your reference system, Jeff?
I like that integrated!

[Randy]

Bowmore - check the PS Audio website. They have a closeout sale on their 250 int.amp, GCC - 250.

[mvwhiting_83]

I have... The Sim Audio is among the absolute best I have ever heard.  The imaging is absolutely superb.  I would highly recommend this amp to anyone.  Heard it with the BCD-1 though some PMC GB1i's.

[Zero]

The Sim I-7 is a very solid integrated.  The NAD M3 is also stellar when shopping for an over-all value in the sub 3k class.  Between the two, I'd say it highly depends on the loudspeakers you are driving.  The Sim Audio has a more "tell it like it is" sound whereas the NAD, although quite resolute, is a bit more of a warm sounding piece.

Between those options, I'd go with the Vista Audio i34 at $950 USD.  I know that's not exactly the info you were looking for, but if your speakers are genuinely efficient -  this amp does many things that the Sim I-7 and the NAD M3 cannot.

[planet10]

a line array of 8 - Fostex FE127e per side, 100dB/1w/1m. 4 ohm (series/paralleled). I have a separate 1000w class D amp running the subwoofers. From where I sit, 100w would get me about 105dB peaks.

No tweeters -- an arrary like that should be combing like crazy above about 3-4 k unless it is a focused arrary....

Also, the efficiency of the FE127 is more like 90 dB (measured across about 150+ units), so 98 dB 1W/1min the midband is more realistic. 5 W will give you 105 dB peaks.

A 100 W amp would give 118 dB peaks.

The FE127 likes amps with a highish output impedance. What you want is a nice 20-40W low feedback tube amp/ There are lots of PP EL34 integrated amps available these days... you want one you can flip into triode.

If you want SS find yourself a Firstwatt F1 or F2 (you'd need a pre-amp thou, and your budget is gonna be stretched)

dave

[planet10]

What you want is a nice 20-40W low feedback tube amp/ There are lots of PP EL34 integrated amps available these days... you want one you can flip into triode.

I see that while i was posting, Zero suggested much the same.

http://www.vista-audio.com/products/i34/index.htm

This one looks to be fairly conservatively using the EL34, so they should last quite a while, it doesn't have a triode switch, and it has those really ugly chinese clones of the WBT 5-way posts, but given its low price you can afford to tweak it up.

dave

[wilsynet]

If you have heard the RWA, how does it sound when you run it up pretty loud?

It's good, very very good, and it struggles not at all to play at deafening volumes.  I think you may be surprised what SLA battery power can do, instantaneous high current delivery gives you the effortless music reproduction that you might otherwise expect to come from a high wattage amplifier.  The other thing you'll get is a drop dead absent noise floor.  The 6moons review is quite comprehensive (if somewhat long, and while some would say meandering, I quite like reading Srajan's reviews) and it covers pairing the amp with various speakers, both high efficiency ones as well as some not so highly efficient.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine8/302.html

It wouldn't hurt to email Vinnie at RWA and tell him what speakers you have and if he thinks it'll be appropriate.  He'll tell it to you straight as the 30 day return policy does him no favors if his customers are unhappy and are returning equipment to him.

I like the First Watt suggestion, and have generally liked what Nelson Pass has to say (I'll soon be borrowing a DIY First Watt F5 that a friend recently built and doing some comparisons with the RWA 30.2).

If you don't need a remote control, a First Watt together with a passive preamp like the Promitheus TVC may do the trick for you.

[bowmore]

I would be very interested in what you think of the RWA vs the First Watt when you get that opportunity.

[bowmore]

a line array of 8 - Fostex FE127e per side, 100dB/1w/1m. 4 ohm (series/paralleled). I have a separate 1000w class D amp running the subwoofers. From where I sit, 100w would get me about 105dB peaks.

No tweeters -- an arrary like that should be combing like crazy above about 3-4 k unless it is a focused arrary....

Also, the efficiency of the FE127 is more like 90 dB (measured across about 150+ units), so 98 dB 1W/1min the midband is more realistic. 5 W will give you 105 dB peaks.

A 100 W amp would give 118 dB peaks.

The FE127 likes amps with a highish output impedance. What you want is a nice 20-40W low feedback tube amp/ There are lots of PP EL34 integrated amps available these days... you want one you can flip into triode.

If you want SS find yourself a Firstwatt F1 or F2 (you'd need a pre-amp thou, and your budget is gonna be stretched)

dave

  No combing at all. Tweeters don't comb if they are lined up like a line source. Since every driver is producing highs, no combing. I did a focused array and it locked your head into a vise. It was as bad as the old electrostats. Move your head 2" and you are screwed. I agree w/ your 100w producing a 115dB peak, but that is one meter away and I am 4 meters away. So the peak is more like what I indicated earlier --- 105db.

[planet10]

I would be very interested in what you think of the RWA vs the First Watt when you get that opportunity.

That comparison would only be valid if we know what speakers willynet has... the best Firstwatts for your speaker are the F1 & F2, F5 is quite a different beast,

dave

[planet10]

No combing at all. Tweeters don't comb if they are lined up like a line source. Since every driver is producing highs, no combing. I did a focused array and it locked your head into a vise. It was as bad as the old electrostats. Move your head 2" and you are screwed. I agree w/ your 100w producing a 115dB peak, but that is one meter away and I am 4 meters away. So the peak is more like what I indicated earlier --- 105db.

Because of the centre-to-centre distance of the drivers they will comb. Jim Griffin's line arrary paper covers it well. 4 meters away would help considerably thou

dave

[jeenam]

Can only comment about the Simaudio Moon I-5 but will offer this...

Brand new the I-5 comes in around $2600 (not sure what cost dealers actually sell it for) and used they can usually be found for less than $1500 for the latest revision (has a small badge on the front). If you're willing to spend ~$500 more you can get a Valve Audio Predator integrated rated @ 200wpc into 8 ohms from Music Direct (they have one B stock unit that was a demo). It features a tubed preamp stage and tubes driving the mosfet outputs (4x 6922 - stock tubes are electro harmonix).

To put it lightly, this amp smokes the I-5 in every respect except for absolute dynamics. However, it does not have a preamp output so I'm not sure how you would connect your class D amp to your sub. The I-5 seems to have gotten rave reviews and it is a nice piece for the money, however it still sounds digital in its presentation. Warmer sounding amps would be the Plinius 8200/9X00 series, but they lack remote selectable input. Other integrateds to check out would be the DK Design VS1 MKII and Primare I30.

Years ago I had an Anthem Integrated 2 hybrid (tubed pre w/ solid state amplification) and now can't really stand to listen to all digital pre/amp combos. The I-5 is smooth, detailed and has a great sense of speed, but it lacks the three dimensional imaging that hybrids offer. The Predator surprisingly bests the I-5 in the detail area (which I never thought a tubed unit could in the same price range).

[bowmore]

No combing at all. Tweeters don't comb if they are lined up like a line source. Since every driver is producing highs, no combing. I did a focused array and it locked your head into a vise. It was as bad as the old electrostats. Move your head 2" and you are screwed. I agree w/ your 100w producing a 115dB peak, but that is one meter away and I am 4 meters away. So the peak is more like what I indicated earlier --- 105db.

Because of the centre-to-centre distance of the drivers they will comb. Jim Griffin's line arrary paper covers it well. 4 meters away would help considerably thou

dave

Could you provide me a link to that? I have listened to many, many line array type speakers and have never heard the combing. To me they have drastically less image shift compared to standard 3 or 4 way systems.

[planet10]

Griffin's paper:

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf

and an earlier paper by Taylor

http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/TLS/downloads/taylor-line-array.pdf



dave