The Wheels Are Off GM's Claim To Be The World's largest Automaker...

Wind Chaser · « **on:** 22 Jan 2009, 03:43 am »

Sales for 2008...

JerryM · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 03:57 am »

Hmmm... What a surprise!!!

Where does that leave Ford? Or Chrysler?

I'm going way out on a limb here, but I'm guessing Toyota's profit margin was better than GM's as well.

Wishing I would have seen something this staggering coming,
Jerry

PS: Sorry, Wind. It's been one of those days...

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 04:37 am »

GM's been on top the better part of 100 years. As a staunch GM supporter, it's truly a sad, sad day in my book.

I haven't owned a non-GM product since around 1987.
I can proudly say that I've NEVER spent more than $125 on a repair in over two decades.*
Tires, tune-ups etc... are another matter. But there's not been a single item break that's cost me more than $125 in 22 years.
And in those 22 years, I've needed a tow truck once, back 1990, and that was for a failed battery (under OE factory warranty). Zero cost to me.

Toyota's on top now? Well, that's just great.
But I'll tell you something right now......They've got one HELL of a long way to go before they impress me.
I've been in the auto repair business since the late 80's, so yea....I've "been there, done that".

== Congratulations to General Motors for a century of damn good products (ok, ok, there's a few stinkers in there too).
I'll give you one guess to what badge will be on the next vehicle I own.

* Well, except for the time the wife lowered the garage door on my sunroof. That cost me just over $1,000.

Bob

S Clark · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 04:57 am »

You had vastly better luck with GM than the two early 80's models that I owned. Both engines lost compression before 100K with oil change and filter changes at around 5K. Never owned another. I might be tempted to try Ford again eventually.

satfrat · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 04:58 am »

And here I thought Honda had been on top for years.

PMAT · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 05:19 am »

I drive a Yukon and work for Honda. I hate Toyotas. There you have it.

satfrat · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 05:25 am »

Quote from: PMAT on 22 Jan 2009, 05:19 am

I drive a Yukon and work for Honda. I hate Toyotas. There you have it.

I just knew I had a clue,,, aa

thunderbrick · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 05:28 am »

Just by chance I have had a number of GM cars over the years, and the only clunker I had was a Pontiac GrandAm, but the reason that died was a couple of teenagers that didn't know you shouldn't drive 70mph in 2nd gear.

I may be a dinosaur, but I have LOVED their monster station wagons. You can haul damn near ANYTHING in them, and the 350 V-8 can't be beat. I even had excellent luck with an '83 Olds Diesel wagon that I bought for pocket change and put 100K on it. You just had to know how to drive it. Once up to speed it was whisper quiet.

Except for a badly-abused transmission I had few repairs of consequence. I've also owned Volvos, Saab, and several BMWs. Beemers are very dependable, Saabs not so much.

YMMV

lazydays · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 06:13 am »

Quote from: satfrat on 22 Jan 2009, 04:58 am

And here I thought Honda had been on top for years.

tops in warranty cost and recalls, and that ain't real good. But they're not the worst for warranty costs. BMW has the bottom five slots locked up with Toyota and Honda taking the rest except for one mercedes position. (source is Wards Automotive News)
gary

JLM · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 04:50 pm »

American cars have gotten better over the past 35 years, thanks in large part to foreign competition, and discerning customers.

However my limited exposure to American car dealerships has been far less than stellar. Slimey sales staff, lazy parts departments, and apathetic service shops have been a huge turn off. How can fast food joints with teenagers and retirement aged workers provide better service attitudes selling $5 meals than a company selling/caring for $30,000 products?

CSI · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 05:10 pm »

Quote from: JerryM on 22 Jan 2009, 03:57 am

Hmmm... What a surprise!!!

Where does that leave Ford? Or Chrysler?

I'm going way out on a limb here, but I'm guessing Toyota's profit margin was better than GM's as well.

Wishing I would have seen something this staggering coming,
Jerry

PS: Sorry, Wind. It's been one of those days...

Shouldn't have been that big of a surprise (unless you were being ironic). The business and automotive press have talked about the coming Toyota ascension to #1 for several years - way before the current melt down. Toyota themselves have downplayed it - apparently worried about a backlash (see Gary's comments). The US makers make some great cars but have had trouble hitting the moving target of increasing quality coming from Japan.

As for sleazy dealers, my family was in the business long ago (Ford) and I sold cars and trucks for a while. I soon asked to be transferred to fleet sales (where I didn't have to push people into buying things they didn't really need) then got out of it altogether. The problem, as I see it, is the whole selling culture. Only a few talented, high energy salesmen make serious money (as in all sales fields) and everyone is on commission. The commission's are small enough that you really have to hustle to make a living. No matter how honest you are, this doesn't put a premium on the best interests of the customer.

Mike B. · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 05:20 pm »

I am one of the old guys who grew up in the 1950's and started driving in the early 1960's. I support the three domestic brands because they helped build America. They are engrained in its industrialized history. American cars have progressively gotten better since the 1980's. The sad part is many are stuck there and reject any car made by American brands. If you dig through factory to dealer service bulletins and recall notices, you will see all manufactures suffer problems. I hope the American car industry can get back on track and again be the leaders in sales in America.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 05:41 pm »

GM may have lost the top prize for worldwide sales....but, I think what we will be seeing from them the next decade (assuming they survive the immediate future) will be tops in quality. I know they're on my radar again in the future aa

John

JLM · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 06:11 pm »

American car designs trail the rest of the world by years. The GM Volt will come out a decade after the first (Japanese) hybrids. And where's the domestic clean diesels? Why can't Ford simply import their European/Aussie designs?

Decisions (like product line launches or new drivetrains) take way too long to make and show the weaknesses of design by committee.

I've seen first hand the internal competition among GM VPs that caused waste.

Dan_ed · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 06:22 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 22 Jan 2009, 06:11 pm

Why can't Ford simply import their European/Aussie designs?

It is usually due to U.S. environmental or safety regulations.

I do split out Toyota trucks from the cars they manufacture. Personally, I prefer the Ford F-150 to any other truck out there. I stopped buying GM and Chrysler in the late 70's not because I thought their trucks were/are no good. I just haven't found anything I like better than the F-150. But the Tundra is getting close.

I've been driving a Mazda-badged Ranger for 10 years now. Back then, the small trucks offered better economy as well as a lower price. Right now I can't see any advantage to buying a smaller truck. I'll most likely buy a new truck this year, but it won't be GM.

CSI · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jan 2009, 06:23 pm »

Ford has said they finally will start bringing in some of their very successful European models. One big reason they haven't done it before is because, no matter how good the mpg is on these cars, the govt' won't let the American builders count them in meeting the CAFE standards. That's right. Henry "Phantom of the Opera" Waxman says terrible Detroit must get greener but high mileage imports don't count. Why? Because they aren't built here by UAW workers. Check out a whole string of articles on this in the Wall Street Journal and other publications. God I hate self-righteous government hypocrites!

lazydays · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 02:45 am »

Quote from: JLM on 22 Jan 2009, 06:11 pm

American car designs trail the rest of the world by years. The GM Volt will come out a decade after the first (Japanese) hybrids. And where's the domestic clean diesels? Why can't Ford simply import their European/Aussie designs?

Decisions (like product line launches or new drivetrains) take way too long to make and show the weaknesses of design by committee.

I've seen first hand the internal competition among GM VPs that caused waste.

The Volt first of all is not a hybrid but a true electric car. Deisels traditionally don't sell well in North America unless they are in a truck, and unless you have the right transmission your starting out in trouble as soon as you touch the ignition key. Japanese hybrids are nothing but intellectual property they stole back in the late eighties, and that's now obsolite. That data is not free to steal anymore. The best hybrid technology in use right now is in the mass transit industry. It is moving down into automobiles slowly, but it's still there.
gary

lazydays · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 02:49 am »

Quote from: Dan_ed on 22 Jan 2009, 06:22 pm

Quote from: JLM on 22 Jan 2009, 06:11 pm
Why can't Ford simply import their European/Aussie designs?

It is usually due to U.S. environmental or safety regulations.

I do split out Toyota trucks from the cars they manufacture. Personally, I prefer the Ford F-150 to any other truck out there. I stopped buying GM and Chrysler in the late 70's not because I thought their trucks were/are no good. I just haven't found anything I like better than the F-150. But the Tundra is getting close.

I've been driving a Mazda-badged Ranger for 10 years now. Back then, the small trucks offered better economy as well as a lower price. Right now I can't see any advantage to buying a smaller truck. I'll most likely buy a new truck this year, but it won't be GM.

perhaps you need to take another look at what Dodge and G.M. are selling. They clearly are the best trucks being built anywhere by a long shot.
gary

sbrtoy · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 03:15 am »

Gary, your rhetoric is a bit tired...if you weren't so dogmatic people might take your side more. For once admit that someone else in the world can build a superior vehicle...seriously do you think all GM products are the best? In-depth studies and consumer choices tell a different story.

And by the way, the new F-150 is a very nice truck, GM is running scared with their cheap shot ad campaign....

thunderbrick · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 04:09 am »

I work with two one-ton pick up trucks, an F350 and a GMC 3500, and the staff can choose which one to drive. They choose the GMC overwhelmingly.
I drive the Ford only because I don't want us to drive the GMC to 250K and we'll still be stuck with the Ford.