[Mike Dzurko]

The title says is all. Have a very Merry Christmas! The sale will begin Friday the 26th and end on December 31.

Check back on Friday the 26th for details 

[evan1]

I think there is a typo

[Mike Dzurko]

Thanks and congratulations to all who took this opportunity!

[Mike Dzurko]

I think there is a typo

Thank you Evan . . .  fixing it now

[stereocilia]

I'm considering taking advantage of the sub sale, but first, I have to decide if two Force's or a Titan would be best.  In my setup, I would have to have the Titan far to the left of the listening position, and probably on the same plane.  If I place the sub behind and between the speakers, it would be near the center of the room.  For two Force XLs, I could have one on either side of the listening position in the same plane.  I barely have enough room to fit one Force directly behind the listening position, but it's so close that I can't be certain I can make it fit.

So, if it really is not a detriment to have the sub off to the side, then I'm likely to go for the Titan.  The additional advantage there is that I might have a budget remaining for an R-DES (if it still exists) or even a Velodyne SMS-1.  However, if the soundstage would be skewed by having only one sub to the side of the listening position then I'm likely to go for two Force subs.

Any help or comments are appreciated.  The room, by the way, is about 17 feet by 23, with two doorway openings and 7'5" ceiling.

[Mike Dzurko]

I'm 99% which way I'd go . . .  but I'd love to see a room layout/sketch just to make sure. If you have one . . .

[stereocilia]

I had one, but I'm not at home (visiting my parents in Indiana) and I have no means of importing it.  Let me try this...

----------------
|                      *
|                  |
|        B?       |
|    s   +   s   |
f                   ---
p                       *
------ccccc-------
B--ww--B?-ww---B

fp= fireplace, ccccc=couch,  * = opening,  s = speaker location,  +  =  support post, w = window, B = potential subwoofer location, B? = impractical but possible subwoofer location only if Force XL is used.

Okay, not all that great, but maybe it will be useful.   Sorry my ASCII art is not what it should be.

[Mike Dzurko]

If I'm reading your picture right, the potential placement for a single Titan XL would be slightly behind the Sapphires and centered or nearly centered? Is this correct?

[stereocilia]

Basically, yes.  It would be behind the support beam, which is basically an 8" square.  I would probably have it like this:

     
                  ____     w                 |
__          __ |_T_|    a       __        |
|s|         |+|            l       |s|       |
---         ---            k       ---       |------------------------
                             w               
                              a               
                              y                                              s
                                                                              t
                                                            _______       a
<-fireplace this way                                 |           |     i                                                |
                                                            |           |     r
                                                            |           |     s
                                                            |           |     \/
                 ccccccccccccccc



Again, + = support beam, s = sapphire XL, T = Titan,   cccc = couch

I didn't draw the whole room, obviously, and things are not in exactly the right proportion.

[Mike Dzurko]

I would say you definitely want to use the placement where the T is marked in your second drawing. A single Titan XL will do a great job . . . or . . .  if there is room, you could do stereo Force XLs next to each other in that space as well.

[stereocilia]

Thanks for considering this, the prospect of using a single sub appeals to me.  The only downsides to that configuration I considered were that aesthetically, two subs in the corners might be better, and that the single sub would be too close to the geometric center of the room.  I guess it's very unlikely to be the acoustic center of the room given the irregular shape and the openings into various cavities.

These should be my last question before I pull the trigger:  how close to the halfway point between the two speakers should the sub be placed.  Can I go so far as to have the sub to the left of the left speaker, either in the same plane or slightly behind?

Thank again!
 

[Mike Dzurko]

Thanks for considering this, the prospect of using a single sub appeals to me.  The only downsides to that configuration I considered were that aesthetically, two subs in the corners might be better, and that the single sub would be too close to the geometric center of the room.  I guess it's very unlikely to be the acoustic center of the room given the irregular shape and the openings into various cavities.

These should be my last question before I pull the trigger:  how close to the halfway point between the two speakers should the sub be placed.  Can I go so far as to have the sub to the left of the left speaker, either in the same plane or slightly behind?

Thank again!
 

When the sub is placed between left and right, it is easier to integrate. BUT, that may or may not be the placement that yields the best response from the sub.  Where the sub will be optimum is usually found by trial and error, and measurement if possible.  There are some easy steps to work this out. If this is the first time you've set up a sub, I'd start with it between the speakers and then experiment with alternative placements after it is run - in and you have had a chance to play with the controls and notice how they affect the sound. We'll be here to help you dial it in

[Mike Dzurko]

Thanks for considering this, the prospect of using a single sub appeals to me.  The only downsides to that configuration I considered were that aesthetically, two subs in the corners might be better, and that the single sub would be too close to the geometric center of the room.  I guess it's very unlikely to be the acoustic center of the room given the irregular shape and the openings into various cavities.

These should be my last question before I pull the trigger:  how close to the halfway point between the two speakers should the sub be placed.  Can I go so far as to have the sub to the left of the left speaker, either in the same plane or slightly behind?

Thank again!
 

Thank YOU   Just got home from the shop . . .  snowing like crazy but we managed to keep your new Titan XL dry as we loaded from the dock to the UPS truck . . .  I'm guessing you'll be enjoying it early next week. Happy New Year!

[Mike Dzurko]

Looks like I get the duty of pulling the sale. I can't find anyone who wants to work near midnight on Dec. 31 . . .  can you imagine 

Well I'm not going to be working at midnight either. So this offer gained a few extra hours. Whenever I manage to get moving tomorrow, (the 1st), is when the offer will get deleted from the website. So you've got an extra 8 or so hours to make a smart move 

Happy New Year!

[zybar]

Thanks for considering this, the prospect of using a single sub appeals to me.  The only downsides to that configuration I considered were that aesthetically, two subs in the corners might be better, and that the single sub would be too close to the geometric center of the room.  I guess it's very unlikely to be the acoustic center of the room given the irregular shape and the openings into various cavities.

These should be my last question before I pull the trigger:  how close to the halfway point between the two speakers should the sub be placed.  Can I go so far as to have the sub to the left of the left speaker, either in the same plane or slightly behind?

Thank again!
 

I would be happy to help you dial in the sub.

If needed, I can bring over a Velodyne SMS-1 to help really get it nailed.

Just shoot me a PM.

George

[stereocilia]

Thanks George!

UPS will be here in a week or so.  In the meantime, I have to recover from all the drama of visiting my family and being away for 8 days.  I'll PM you when the time for subwoofer setup arrives.

Happy New Year.

 

[stereocilia]

So, after all that, I moved my furniture around.   
It works better now with the Sapphire XLs flanking the fireplace and the Titan XL slightly behind and between the speakers against the back wall 1/3 of the way from either side.

Yeah, just where my wife suggested everything ought to go.   

[stereocilia]

Okay, I moved the furniture back AGIAN.  The imaging is better this way -- more space around and behind the speakers is why I assume that's the case.

After using the 65 Hz filters and port plugs (not always at the same time), I think I will ultimately end up using neither.  I assume the filters increase the maximum loudness before distortion sets in, but that's not an issue in my setup.

I'm getting great results using the Titan XL crossed over low.  In other words, Sapphire XLs run full range with the Titan only contributing to the very lowest bass.  Both filters are at just about high noon or a little less, and the gain is around 3:30.   I suppose experimentation with different configurations will go on for many years, but for now this setup is really working.   

[Mike Dzurko]

You are a wise man  You clearly understand the most important setup tip with subs)   . . . . . . . . . .
be willing to experiment.

Every room is different, everyone has different listening priorities, each system has different characteristics. The folks who enjoy their sub(s) the most are willing to experiment with their setup to get the best possible performance. Enjoy!