[jqp]

Firefox is getting attacked more as exploits become understood.

I use Firefox 95% of the time also, usually IE is when an app specifically opens it. IE is about 65% of the market now, most sites are written for it by default. Never had a problem either with both of these on the XP at the same time.

If you want IE (why not) I would go with IE7 since it should be better, more secure. In the future IE should be much better, but we shall see how much additional they want you to add on...same with Firefox

Either way it is a pain to constantly update the browsers, and security usually drives that. But you gotta do it

[whubbard]

Hmmm... all the good stuff... thanks to all who participate...

Now, if I want to experiment (big IF, considering the lack of interest to play with software), are there any drawbacks to installing FF, Safari, Opera, Chrome... run it for a week or two and then uninstalling. We know that most of windows s/w leaves stuff behind even when uninstalled, but how about these alternate browsers?

Once again, many thanks!
Boris

FireFox, Chrome, and Opera: probably a folder, and maybe some settings. Nothing you will notice, and the size will be small (read: not worth deleting)
Safari: Again folder and Settings, but I should add that people have had some weird problems uninstalling. Also it is likely to leave behind the Apple Software Updater, which will try and get you to install iTunes, Quicktime, and Safari again. So you will have to remove that too.

This is also priceless: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080203114316AA8VKwG
I should add: Drag & Drop to trash from Add and Remove Programs from the Control Panel will only not work,  but you will feel like an idiot for trying. I mean there is an uninstall program button. Maybe thats why Mac users have such difficulty with windows...can't use buttons. Kidding.

-West

[jmc207]

For more info on the IE flaw and patch, as well as switching to Firefox, check out the Top Story just below the introduction in this Windows Secrets newsletter.
http://WindowsSecrets.com/comp/081117

[Audiovista]

The patch was just downloaded to my PC as an automatic update. Has to be because of this thread! 

So it looks like FireFox, Chrome and Opera... Apple makes me nervous forcing me to install stuff I don't need and don't want.... (I really disliked that iPod Touch made me install iTunes before I could turn it on.... and I just borrowed the thingy to play for a few hours....).

[Watson]

Well, I certainly applaud anyone wanting to abandon IE, but take it from this old software rat, I've spent my entire adult life dealing with software, and an attempt like this one can do more harm than good.

If you only fix one part of your computer (and that's all a single software application like IE is going to do for you), you're setting yourself up for failure down the road. I've seen it a hundred times.

It's like putting a powerful engine in a stock Toyota Tercel. What will you accomplish? You'll blow out the drive train, the clutch, the transmission, etc., because those factory parts aren't designed to handle the power of an engine much more powerful than the factory installed engine.

IE basically only fixes the browser and to some extent, the network. What you really want to do is fix your entire operating system, all the major software groups (browser, word processor, database, spreadsheet, and games) at the same time, over the course of an upgrade session. And don't forget your security work!

I'm proud of you guys wanting to do this. Three cheers! Falling in love with alternative browsers, coding right, etc., is one of the greatest things you can do for yourself. And you WILL fall in love with it if you can just force yourself to stick with it a year or two and experience the amazing progress you'll make.

But do it right, okay?

My advice, find a good geek, with qualified certs who will design your programs for you (especially in the beginning, until you get the hang of it yourself) and guide you in your quest for software power. Thirty to 45 minutes a day, three days a week, is all you'll ever need to do (I refuse to believe anyone is so busy that he or she cannot make time for that, especially considering how important it is).

And don't worry about being embarrassed or not being current the first time you install an alternative browser. You have to start somewhere and almost every one of us were there ourselves at one time. So no one will say anything to you and very, very quickly you will progress way beyond that stage anyway.

Now get out there and do it!

[byteme]

At one time I did beta testing for IE (IE 2) when mozilla was first really gaining ground and pushing the envelope.  They had some really bright people doing some awesome things.  Some of them never saw the light of day but versions of them have since in some current browsers.  For me, all of the browsers have some level of tradeoff. 

I use FF3 now and have for a few years.  The idea of anyone out there being able to put together some add-on and me being able to find that one (or many) that make your daily trip through the ether more fun, why not?

I tried Opera for about 6 minutes.  What an f'ing disaster.  With FF I occasionally have to use a plug in (open link in IE) to execute certain button clicks that call javascript stuff but for the personalization to do exactly what I want in FF it's worth the VERY minor inconvenience of having to do that.

I won't touch the mac / pc / linux issue other than this - what you fancy at home is great, knock yourself out.  But from where I sit, 99.9% of the world is wintel. 

[Rashiki]

I won't touch the mac / pc / linux issue other than this - what you fancy at home is great, knock yourself out.  But from where I sit, 99.9% of the world is wintel. 

My work used to be mostly Windows, but Mac is gaining market share and you can't develop for Mac or iPhone on anything but Mac. You can, however, run Windows on a Mac. Most of the software developers I know have switched to using Macs out of necessity. Depending on which reports you read, Mac is still only 7 or 8% of the market, but Windows is down to around 90%.

 -Rob

[whubbard]

Depending on which reports you read, Mac is still only 7 or 8% of the market, but Windows is down to around 90%.

I believe you are talking about the U.S. market. You need to look at the whole world too.

[Wind Chaser]

Depending on which reports you read, Mac is still only 7 or 8% of the market, but Windows is down to around 90%.

I believe you are talking about the U.S. market. You need to look at the whole world too.

In that case it's probably even less than 7 or 8%.  Here in Canada, Apple is known for iPods and telephones.  I left the Mac platform back in the 90's and haven't looked back.  Never understood the fanatical cultism, but maybe there was something to it back in the 80's when there were user support groups, which have long since vanished where I come and came from.

[Rashiki]

Depending on which reports you read, Mac is still only 7 or 8% of the market, but Windows is down to around 90%.

I believe you are talking about the U.S. market. You need to look at the whole world too.

You're correct. Apple's market share is 3.5% worldwide.

[planet10]

Abandon IE... it and the mail client are responsible for leaving the door open to huge waste of time & resources. With IE browser share continuing to plummet http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-40381-113.html web designers will just need to make better websites -- they can no longer count on IE to cover over for them anymore.

Around my circle, Apple market share is closer to 90% (i know one person with PCs, and 1 with Linux).

A single number market share number is not all that interesting... of more interesting is looking at places where Apple is really making advances. None of this data is truly accurate, tracks sales of new computers, and doesn't take into account that a Mac normally has a useful lifespan 2x that of a PC.

66% of US retail market for "hi-end" computers http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=post;topic=62742.20;num_replies=29

2% (?) increase in US Market in the last year

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=laptops&articleId=9117278&taxonomyId=76
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/17/apples_u_s_mac_market_share_rises_to_8_1_percent_in_q3.html

This one more optimistic http://www.pcretailmag.com/news/29628/Mac-market-share-on-the-rise-globally
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/01/analyst-apples-us-consumer-market-share-now-21-percent/

dave

[doorman]

Having recently switched to Mac, I wonder why I waited!
Don

[gary]

I have a macbook pro from 2007 and I have no choice but to run windows xp on it because my cad software only runs in windows and our web-based quality system only works with IE. I like the mac os though and if I had my choice I'd probably just use it for everything but unfortunately that's not an option.

I've switched to chrome for web browsing; despite some minor shortcomings I think it's the best option and I know it'll only get better. When I'm in mac I use firefox but I'm not a huge fan of it by any stretch.

Gary

[planet10]

When I'm in mac I use firefox but I'm not a huge fan of it by any stretch.

Firefox is my 4th string browser on the Mac. iCab is #1, Safari, and Camino (mac specific variation on FF)

dave

[GHM]

I use FF most of the time and IE for certain websites. I run Vista Home premium SP2 on my main rig and XP SP3 on the other two in the house.. No problems..The new Vista SP2 runs like a champ!! It has so many features, I'll probably never use..but I'm glad I have the options. That was and is my only real hang up with the Macs. Just not enough choices in applications for me.

I plan to play Blu rays/ Net Flix instant downloads with both my 52" Sharp and a Mits projector using a 84" wide screen using the Vista HTPC... Should be a hoot!

[shadowlight]

I would suggest that everyone run the following program on your wintel pc and see how secure you are aa

http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/online/

Also make sure that you are using a non-admin/power user account for your day to day activities.

[Audiovista]

Also make sure that you are using a non-admin/power user account for your day to day activities.

I like that! 

[Audiovista]

Watson - great comment - thanks!

....Thirty to 45 minutes a day, three days a week, is all you'll ever need to do (I refuse to believe anyone is so busy that he or she cannot make time for that, especially considering how important it is).....

Unfortunately not an option for me, I'll have to keep relying on good folks making antivirus software and hardware firewalls.... (how naive, huh  )

[gary]

Firefox is my 4th string browser on the Mac. iCab is #1, Safari, and Camino (mac specific variation on FF)

dave

i'd never heard of iCab but it looks good. i'm definitely going to try it now.
thanks
gary

[turkey]

I won't touch the mac / pc / linux issue other than this - what you fancy at home is great, knock yourself out.  But from where I sit, 99.9% of the world is wintel. 

And you like that?