Help understanding criteria to use in selecting turntable

Greene Deere · « **on:** 8 Dec 2008, 02:25 am »

I'm setting up a separate 2 channel system to use with a turntable so I can drag out my vintage vinyl. The last turntable I had was a Philips which is 25 years old (I know, I know...my age is showing).

As I've shopped I realize I don't even understand how turntables work anymore. I don't understand the significance of the cartridges. Can anyone help me understand what I need to know to make a good decision and I'd appreciate any product recommendations in the $500. range

I'd be using it with Onix Reference 1 speakers and a Gizmo amp.

django11 · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Dec 2008, 02:34 am »

I know absolutely nothing about turntables but I did notice there is a "vinyl circle". Perhaps you would get more attention there...

REY · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Dec 2008, 08:38 am »

Try to find a used rega planar 2 or 3, best bang for the buck in your price range, Audio Technica and Denon Cartridges are also very good performance and they start really cheap. You will be surprised how good those old vinyl can sound. If you want to buy a new turntable, Project has a couple of entry level decks worth checking out, good luck.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Dec 2008, 12:26 am »

Check out catalogs from Acoustic Sounds and Music Direct for turntable and cartridges. Look them up, contact them and they will send to you. Update this topic with your questions. The old vinyl may surprise you.

Mariusz · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Dec 2008, 01:12 am »

Rega and Music Hall are plug-&-play turntables which prove themselves over the years.
Denon and Technics are also great but need a little more "love" then above mentioned. (but it might be worth an effort).

In my own criteria for choosing the TT is:

*budget
*best bang for the buck
*"tweakability"
* Direct drive *idlers* or belt drives.

Here are some links for you which you might find useful. Each link explains the differences, disadvantages and shortcomings between major trends in turntable design:

*Direct Drives
*Idlers
*Belt Drives

Best
Mariusz

TONEPUB · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Dec 2008, 02:00 am »

Here's what id think about:

How big is your vinyl collection?
How much are you going to add to it in the future?
What kind of shape is your vinyl collection: Fair, Good, Awesome....

The more vinyl you have, the more money I'd suggest spending
on a TT... Especially if your collection is in the good to awesome column.

If you are just going to be shopping for budget LP's don't freak out too
much about a table...

That being said, how much do you WANT to screw around with a turntable?

If you love to tweek and tinker, the sky's the limit.

If you just want to play records, think about a Rega P3 or a Technics SL1200.

NOW, because we've had so many arguments about the virtues (or lack of)
with these two tables, they are my two favorites for the ability to set em
up quickly and fairly accurately and just enjoy records.

If you have the opportunity to listen to these tables, I guarantee you will
really respond to one and not care so much for the other.. Which one
you pick will be up to you.

That's my two cents worth.

Greene Deere · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Dec 2008, 02:06 am »

I haven't heard either of these but based on the information I've seen I think I'll go ahead and try the Rega 3.
I would rate my vinyl in the good condition-Awesome category and am really anxious to hear them all over again!
Thanks for the info, it helped me make the final choice.
I'll update how I like it if I can tear myself away long enough to post!

SetterP · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Dec 2008, 04:42 am »

Hey Burnley's mom!

What phono stage are you planning to use? From what I've read getting the phono stage dialed in with the cartridge is an important synergy. Remember that the Gizmo does not have a bulit-in phono stage.

Looking forward to your listening impressions. I am planning to make the vinyl plunge in 09'. I'm lucky that I will be able to adopt my parents nice collection of vinyl.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Dec 2008, 03:28 pm »

I have a Monolithic Sound phono pre that I might be willing to sell. It is a good sounding unit. Fast, dynamic, tonally correct. Thinkin about purchasing a Jolida tube stage.

twitch54 · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 11:16 pm »

With all the good recomendations for the Rega P-3 I would also suggest you take a look / listen at the Music Hall MMf 5.1SE, while it's arm my not have the cult following of the rb300 on the Rega it is nonetheless a very competent piece and it's table / plinth superior to that of the P-3, IMO.

Greene Deere · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Dec 2008, 08:56 pm »

Quote from: SetterP on 9 Dec 2008, 04:42 am

Hey Burnley's mom!

What phono stage are you planning to use? From what I've read getting the phono stage dialed in with the cartridge is an important synergy. Remember that the Gizmo does not have a bulit-in phono stage.

Looking forward to your listening impressions. I am planning to make the vinyl plunge in 09'. I'm lucky that I will be able to adopt my parents nice collection of vinyl.

I'm glad you pointed that out because I was thinking I could use the Gizmo. After weeks of research and shopping I did end up with the Rega 3. I'll get busy finding a phono stage so I'm ready when my TT gets here.
Thanks Patrick & others!

JCarney · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Dec 2008, 10:51 pm »

Don't forget some sort of record cleaning.

JCarney

Greene Deere · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Dec 2008, 10:56 pm »

That's funny, on AV123 forum Patrick sent me a link to a thread here about cleaning vinyl so that's my project while I'm waiting for my TT. I'm sure they need it. Thanks for the heads up!!

twitch54 · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Dec 2008, 02:59 pm »

congrats on the P-3 ! I'm sure it will provide you with many hours of analog bliss ! Remember paitence is a virtue !! both with the set-up and cleaning / preserving your LP's

jrtrent · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Dec 2008, 02:11 pm »

Quote from: Greene Deere on 20 Dec 2008, 10:56 pm

That's funny, on AV123 forum Patrick sent me a link to a thread here about cleaning vinyl so that's my project while I'm waiting for my TT. I'm sure they need it. Thanks for the heads up!!

If you look at your P3 manual when it arrives, you'll find Rega is not so hot on record cleaning in general (see tip number 3 in link below, especially concerning the use of water and solvents), and Linn (the manufacturer of my turntable) says that most record cleaning devices/methods do actual harm by taking dust lying harmlessly on the surface and forcing at least some of it down into the groove. I haven't had any record cleaning device in my home since buying my first LP12 in 1985, though I did experiment a few years ago with a local shop's Nitty Gritty machine to see if it would improve some noisy used records--it did not.

http://www.rega.co.uk/downloads/p3%20instructions%202002(back).PDF

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Dec 2008, 03:30 pm »

Quote from: jrtrent on 24 Dec 2008, 02:11 pm

If you look at your P3 manual

http://www.rega.co.uk/downloads/p3%20instructions%202002(back).PDF

I thought #2 was an interesting tip. On non- Rega tables, I can usually hear a hollow sort of (rumbly?) lid effect when it's on the turntable. Usually, it sounds better when you remove the lid from a turntable altogether. I wonder what Rega is doing differently to make it sound better with the lid on.

Regarding the nitty gritty, again ,usually I can hear an improvement after the first cleaning of a record. I do have some thrift store records that won't sound good no matter what you do to them.

Greene Deere · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 08:47 pm »

It's been many years since I had a turntable so it was frustrating to receive my Rega P3 24 with basically no set up information. The "owners manual" is pretty much an ad for upgrades. At any rate, with some help from Setter P I have it set up with a Rega Luna as the amp, a Mapletree pre amp and a pair of Onix Ref 1's.
This has got to be the best present I've ever gotten myself! Even though I have a collection of 70-90's vinyl, I think it's safe to say, I'm hearing them for the first time now. Can't wait to get home every day & play a few more.
My biggest disappointment comes from discovering that some of the albums I loved are very poor quality recordings. I'd also taken the advice to not clean the vinyl but think on a few I may give it a try to see if there is improvement in the sound. I can also see my spare time during cold weather will be consumed trolling for more vinyl. I've really appreciated all the sources I've gotten from this forum.
All I can say is if you've been sitting on the fence, take that tax return & dive in! It's a blast!
Thanks to all for your sound advise!

lcrim · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 05:49 am »

There is a ton of advice in this thread, some of it bad. Clean records sound better and last longer. The dust will act as an abrasive and destroy vinyl records. This is not an opinion , it is fact. Tap water can leave residue but the stuff you can buy in the grocery store for irons is not going to harm vinyl. A vacuum cleaning machine is almost a necessity to me.

jrtrent · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 01:24 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 14 Jan 2009, 05:49 am

There is a ton of advice in this thread, some of it bad. Clean records sound better and last longer. The dust will act as an abrasive and destroy vinyl records. This is not an opinion , it is fact . . .

I'm always happy to learn new facts, but you have stated yours with no more proof than an opinion. At least two of the most respected turntable manufacterers over the past several decades (Linn and Rega) disagree with you, and my own experience (not offered as in any way a controlled study) is that my records last longer and sound better once I stopped trying to clean them. I'm sure your experience must be different or you would not have spent the money for a vacuum record cleaning machine. The OP is going to try cleaning some of his records to see for himself if there is improvement to be found there.

Linn and Rega contend that the dust you see is lying harmlessly on the record's surface, easily pushed aside by the stylus shank; it is not down in the groove where the stylus impacts the vinyl unless some agency, such as a cleaning device, forces it down into the groove. If you have proof, other than anecdotal, to the contrary, I would welcome it. These days, when most of my purchases are of previously-owned records treated God only knows how, I can't help the "common-sense" thinking that a quality record cleaning machine is a good thing, even though I can't back that up with research evidence or my own experience in trying machines from Nitty Gritty and VPI. Nevertheless, I have to admit that I've long been intrigued by the Loricraft, and think I would at least get pleasure from it for its "toy" value even if I couldn't prove it was more effective than others. As Art Dudley stated in his (favorable) review of the Loricraft PCR-4, "record cleaning is another one of those things that's governed more by believability and likability than probability."

woodsyi · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 01:38 pm »

I don't know what empirical proof you want but I can tell you that I hear less pops and tick on most used records after I run them though my VPI cleaning machine. I will go home tonight and look at new, clean, and used (dirty) records with my daughter's EyeClop (x200) and report what I see.

I can see how brushes and pads only with cleaning solution might push dirt more into the grooves but vacuum cleaning should clean and give at least no worse sound ( I say better).