Martin Logan now sold on Amazon

rydenfan · « **on:** 4 Dec 2008, 01:49 pm »

Is this what this hobby is coming to? very strange...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?ie=UTF8&docId=1000234781

Philistine · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 02:04 pm »

A few years ago Martin Logan Summits appeared at Costco, at something like a 40% discount (I should have bought them). Even though ML didn't support the warranty the Costco return policy was a great safety net. With the Costco fiasco it looked like ML lost control of their distributor network, with the Amazon deal it looks like a definitive marketing strategy (or maybe not)!

sleepysurf · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 02:17 pm »

ML has been selling some of their (mid) "Designer" line products on Amazon for quite a while now. However, their top "ESL" series is (currently) only available through local high-end dealers. With the demise of the Tweeter chain, they've lost a major portion of their distribution/sales network, so they've gotta be looking for new channels. I don't see them selling the CLX, Spire, or upcoming Summit X, etc via Amazon, but they might be forced to start doing so at Best Buy/Magnolia. That's scary!

BTW, the Costco Summit sales were an UNAUTHORIZED channel, and ML quickly shut that down.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 02:48 pm »

Maybe they aren't genuine Martin Logans... There's a lot of cheap imitation stuff being passed off to unsuspecting customers who think they are getting a great deal. Buyer beware!

zybar · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 02:54 pm »

Why is it bad that ML's are being sold on Amazon?

George

Wayner · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 03:52 pm »

This sounds like a smart move to me. Lower priced speaker range sales will help support the high end line. If I remember correctly, Martin Logan was bought out by D and H holding (Chicago), same folks that bought Marantz, Denon and McIntosh...(someone help me here if I got it wrong).

Wayner

rydenfan · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 04:28 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 4 Dec 2008, 02:54 pm

Why is it bad that ML's are being sold on Amazon?

George

To me is just represents a growing problem. I dont feel a speaker is something that should be purchased on-line while you are buying a cd or digital picture frame or something. It is something you should take the time to listen to and decide upon. Our country is becoming so lazy that people dont want to do any work, they simply want things handed to them. I also believe it is increasingly difficult for audio dealers to survive and this just makes it worse. I enjoy having a relationship with a dealer and demoing and possibly buying products with them. Obviously this is only my feelings and YMMV

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 04:43 pm »

Quote from: rydenfan on 4 Dec 2008, 04:28 pm

Quote from: zybar on 4 Dec 2008, 02:54 pm
Why is it bad that ML's are being sold on Amazon?

George

To me is just represents a growing problem. I dont feel a speaker is something that should be purchased on-line while you are buying a cd or digital picture frame or something. It is something you should take the time to listen to and decide upon. Our country is becoming so lazy that people dont want to do any work, they simply want things handed to them. I also believe it is increasingly difficult for audio dealers to survive and this just makes it worse. I enjoy having a relationship with a dealer and demoing and possibly buying products with them. Obviously this is only my feelings and YMMV

It is an unfortunate (or fortunate depending on your perspective) reality that business models change. Small brick & mortor dealers have had financial hardships for years. Competition in consumer electronics is exceptionally brutal. Consumers expect different things these days than they did ten or twenty years ago.

From my perspective, consumers are more and more unlikely to want to pay for dealer hand-holding. They would rather have the dealer margin in their pocket. That is driven by customers though and their desires for high-value product. The Internet has allowed business models that cater more to that need. As long as customers desire that method of buying product, someone will be around to deliver it. The dealers are going to have to learn to deal with it because it is a reality that you cannot wish away.

sleepysurf · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 05:00 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 4 Dec 2008, 03:52 pm

... If I remember correctly, Martin Logan was bought out by D and H holding (Chicago), same folks that bought Marantz, Denon and McIntosh...(someone help me here if I got it wrong).

Wayner

Actually, it's Shoreview Industries that now owns ML (and also Paradigm).

BrassEar · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 05:16 pm »

I would rather buy ML speakers from Amazon or Costco than Best Buy where they are now. I find it comical to see ML speakers setup poorly and playing some horrible DVD only 10 feet from vacuum cleaners and dishwashers.

Every time I tried to audition and purchase ML speakers from high end dealers (during the 80s and 90s) all I got was arrogant salesmen telling me I needed $5K power amps to drive them or I was wasting my time.

I see this as an evolution in retails sales channels and a brick and mortal channel that failed a very good product line. Survival of the fittest certainly applies to retail.

Wayner · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 05:25 pm »

Thanks sleepysurf.

How is it my two favorite brands of speakers ended up in the hands of these idiots? They made the comment about moving product "offshore" so I'm sure that will be the end to the "high quality" many of us have come to expect from the 2 product lines. I have seen many companies fall into the hands of "investers groups", of course not one of the idiots knows anything about HI-FI, manufacturing or perhaps even it's customer base. I loved Martin-Logan not only because they were great speakers, but they were also made in the USA. Paradigms were made in Canada, (at least the studio and reference series) and made very well (at least for the price).

W

TONEPUB · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 05:33 pm »

As someone who just toured the Martin Logan factory,
I can assure you that all of the ESL product is made here
in America (they currently employ abut 80 people).

Matter of fact, they are even bringing most of their subwoofer
cabinet production that used to be done in China back here
to the US... They've expanded their in house capacity and told
me that it is actually becoming easier to make it here, offers
higher quality and gives more Americans jobs.

This is a trend that is starting to turn in more American hifi companies...

Wayner · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 05:38 pm »

Good Jeff,

Lets hope it stays that way. There are many ways that American companies can compete with foreign companies, especially in the asian part of the world. It is by automation and innovation (also Lean Manufacturing, Sigma 6 and Toyota production methodologies, to name a few).

TONEPUB · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 06:51 pm »

What's really turned the tide for many mfrs is the cost of shipping and defects.

If you get a big shipping container full of bad cabinets (or amplifiers), the $100
bucks per unit you saved on offshore assembly just went down the toilet big time!

While I have seen a couple of Chinese made products that have been good
(Prima Luna, Mystere), their stuff still is just not built to the level of quality
that you get from ARC, CJ, BAT or McIntosh just to name a few.

I really hope that we see more of this trend continue and more jobs can stay here!

Doublej · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 08:37 pm »

What's the big deal? It looks like Martin Logan's online store through Amazon. Would you feel differently if Martin Logan sold directly from their company URL?

The demise of Tweeter is going to hurt them big time. Adding to this is the general decline in audio sales. Audio manufacturers are having a really tough time staying in business.

I have a friend who is a struggling retailer. He said manufacturers that dropped him two years ago because he was not showing 20% annual sales growth in their products are now begging him to pick up their lines again with no minimum commitment.

What do you think of Thiel selling through Crutchfield?

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 11:48 pm »

What if there were no dealers and high end gear was sold through the likes of Amazon and Costco?

Doublej · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 02:48 am »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 4 Dec 2008, 11:48 pm

What if there were no dealers and high end gear was sold through the likes of Amazon and Costco?

Costco and Amazon are two different animals. At Costco depending on the product I believe you have either a 90 day return policy or satisfaction guaranteed policy. Sounds great to me, in fact much better than the service I would expect from any high end dealer.

Danberg · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 04:02 am »

Unfortunately, in my experience I have NEVER seen anything good come from an "investor group" taking over a dedicated company.

Well let me take that back... stock may go up in value, but quality of product is thrown out the window, never to return!

acresm22 · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 03:50 pm »

My wife goes to Costco ALL THE TIME, and she never once told me they had MLs on the floor!

Philistine · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 04:02 pm »

Quote from: acresm22 on 5 Dec 2008, 03:50 pm

My wife goes to Costco ALL THE TIME, and she never once told me they had MLs on the floor!

This was a short lived one off event on their website a few years ago,
And I bet she has coffee, pizza etc on her shopping list but forgets to add ML speakers