Looking to get more musical with my CS2s

zapper7 · « **on:** 3 Dec 2008, 04:49 pm »

I purchased a pair of Emerald Physics CS2s back in June, and have just been using my 500w Acoustic Reality amps that I have had for a year on them. The sound is obviously quite dynamic. I use IB subs xovered at 60hz for music listening, so bass is not a huge issue.
I am looking to find a more musical amp for these as the 500w ICE amps are not really needed. All used, unless a super deal on new comes along. I have the SB3 into a Camelot Uther straight into the amps (love the simplicity). Would like to stay under $1500 total for the amps.

For solid state 2-channel each side I am looking at:

Odyssey Stratos (had them in the past and liked them alot, not on the CS2s)
Bel Canto S300 (had them and liked them, not on the CS2s, love the cooler running small package)
Classe CA150 (had the 200 and liked that on my Mirage M3)

For tube amps, I really have no idea, never owned any. I don't really know the power I may need to run these with tubes, but in general I find I like to listen louder than the average guy, have a larger room (510sqft), and don't listen to simple 1-3 instrument music. There seems to be companies like Shanling, Consonance, Rogue, etc. that offer less expensive tube amps, but not sure of their quality, service, etc.

Would appreciate any suggestions on any solid state or tube amps. I need (2) 2-channel amps to run the speakers, so nothing super rare or I will wait forever to get 2 in the system.

Thanks Z

zapper7 · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 06:26 pm »

Everybody must be busy today.

owenmd · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 06:38 pm »

Have you looked at the Butler amps? I have read of a few folks being happy with them on the CS2's.... probably a little warmer and more musical than ICE amps....? No connection to me, but I thought I saw a 5ch Butler for sale and he had used them with CS2's I believe?

Good luck on your search

zybar · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 06:42 pm »

4 channels of amplification for under $1500 isn't going to be easy unless you can DIY.

Outside of the Nelson Pass designed, DYI built, amps that I really like, nothing I own or have tried with the CS2's would fall into your price range.

From the non-DIY world, what about a 4 channel amp from Wyred for Sound amp? I haven't heard this amp, but some people here on AC sure think highly of it.

What are you using on the tweeters now?

George

Angaria · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 10:22 pm »

I'd suggest tubes on the top and SS on the bottom. If you check the reviews there's an increasing number of very strong Chinese-sourced tube amps. With a compression tweeter you'll be fine even with low wattage.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 10:33 pm »

Quote from: Angaria on 3 Dec 2008, 10:22 pm

I'd suggest tubes on the top and SS on the bottom. If you check the reviews there's an increasing number of very strong Chinese-sourced tube amps. With a compression tweeter you'll be fine even with low wattage.

The issue with tubes is their noise floor, not necessarily their wattage.

Many of the cheaper tube amps will have tons of hiss and noise when used on 100db drivers.

George

zapper7 · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 11:28 pm »

The Stratos are fairly easy to get used at $700ea, Bel Canto S300s on Agon right now for $1500 for (2) 2 channel amps, and classe 150 can be done for $700-800ea, they would all fit the $$ used.

I think these are all very quite, and might do the job better than the AR amps.

I heard the Wyreds at CES last year, not bad, but not better than the Acoustic Realitys IMHO. I have 4 ARs from using 1 pair for the IB subs, now using pro power for the IBs.

My bros Bel Canto 1000s do sound better than my ARs, so the smaller ones should too....

I have a lead on 1 Stratos now, but wanted advice incase there was something better or equal I was missing, maybe not.

zybar · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 12:26 am »

Ok, here is tube/ss combo that might work and stay under budget:

Sunfire amp on the woofers and Golden Tube SE-40 amp on the tweeters.

You can usually find one of each on Agon.

If you can't find the Golden Tube amp, maybe something from Quicksilver?

You can also check here with Boris from Vista Audio and see what he has.

George

TomS · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 12:26 am »

Quote from: zapper7 on 3 Dec 2008, 11:28 pm

The Stratos are fairly easy to get used at $700ea, Bel Canto S300s on Agon right now for $1500 for (2) 2 channel amps, and classe 150 can be done for $700-800ea, they would all fit the $$ used.

I think these are all very quite, and might do the job better than the AR amps.

I heard the Wyreds at CES last year, not bad, but not better than the Acoustic Realitys IMHO. I have 4 ARs from using 1 pair for the IB subs, now using pro power for the IBs.

My bros Bel Canto 1000s do sound better than my ARs, so the smaller ones should too....

I have a lead on 1 Stratos now, but wanted advice incase there was something better or equal I was missing, maybe not.

I tried my Stratos Mono Extreme SE's as well as another sub $1200 40wpc tube amp on the HF of my CS2's recently, so just a couple things to ponder. You don't need but a few watts to drive the HF, so think modest power and quiet amps. George is absolutely right about any tube amp that is remotely noisy. Mine sounded really great but I just couldn't live with the noise on the CS2's, even though it is not even noticeable on my less efficient Merlin VSM-MX's. Both of the DIY class A amps I have in house now bettered the Stratos for mid/HF smoothness, though the Stratos fared quite well on the LF (up to 1khz+ on the CS2's) where the muscle really helps with the less efficient 4 ohm woofer array.

Angaria · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 12:31 am »

Agree you have to shop around and read reviews, but there are quiet tube amps you could swing on this budget (have had silent Dared and Elekit amps that sounded great) - or you could go with a tripath based solution - something of a sonic intermediate imho.

zapper7 · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 12:52 am »

Yeah, I know the low wattage for the top.

Thanks for the Stratos info TomS, they were really smooth on my older speakers when I had those amps. What DIY amps did you do?

I will search out the amps mentioned here, the economy sucks, and being in the building business, well...

TomS · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 01:01 am »

Quote from: zapper7 on 4 Dec 2008, 12:52 am

Yeah, I know the low wattage for the top.

Thanks for the Stratos info TomS, they were really smooth on my older speakers when I had those amps. What DIY amps did you do?

I will search out the amps mentioned here, the economy sucks, and being in the building business, well...

My Stratos' sound very good on the Merlins too, but for some reason the DCX/CS2 top end wasn't a great match. No idea why.

I have a FirstWatt F4 with Aikido tube fixed gain stage 20db. I also have a borrowed variant of a smaller XA which is heavenly.

catastrofe · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 01:57 am »

My suggestion would be to speak with Walter Liederman at Underwood HiFi. I purchased my CS2s and Wyred4Sound amplification from him in October. I couldn't be happier, and just upgraded my Behringer to the Cullen modified unit.

I believe Walter will advise against tubes with the CS2s. He can give you the full story.

http://www.underwoodhifi.com/

HTH. . .

Bob

Angaria · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 04:00 am »

saw the tube companies you mentioned - would take Opera over Rogue any day/any price point.

satfrat · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 07:55 am »

Quote from: catastrofe on 4 Dec 2008, 01:57 am

My suggestion would be to speak with Walter Liederman at Underwood HiFi. I purchased my CS2s and Wyred4Sound amplification from him in October. I couldn't be happier, and just upgraded my Behringer to the Cullen modified unit.

I believe Walter will advise against tubes with the CS2s. He can give you the full story.

http://www.underwoodhifi.com/

HTH. . .

Bob

Boy I dunno bout that. From what I heard last week at George's (Zybar) home, his Atma-Sphere MA-1's sounded really really good to me. Of course George has excellent power conditioning on all his gear but those tube amp's 140 wpc was all that those tweeters needed to sing their heart out w/o any hint of moise or ringing.

Wally does have a really really really good deal ($$$.$$) right now on a Class A 36 wpc Musical Fidelity A1 Amp that I think might be perfect for those tweeters if you didn't want to go with tubes. It might be worth checking out.

Cheers,
Robin

zybar · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 01:50 pm »

Quote from: catastrofe on 4 Dec 2008, 01:57 am

My suggestion would be to speak with Walter Liederman at Underwood HiFi. I purchased my CS2s and Wyred4Sound amplification from him in October. I couldn't be happier, and just upgraded my Behringer to the Cullen modified unit.

I believe Walter will advise against tubes with the CS2s. He can give you the full story.

http://www.underwoodhifi.com/

HTH. . .

Bob

Bob,

I am not going to get into why Walter advises caution or against tubes, but I can absolutely say that tubes can be used very successfully with the CS2's. Everybody who has come over and heard the CS2's at my house has been impressed.

I have run the following tube amps on the tweeters with zero issues:

Atma-Sphere M-60's (60 watts)
Atma-Sphere MA-1's (140 watts)
McAlister PP-150 (75 watts)
Bella Extreme 100's (60 watts in triode mode)
Audio Mirror SET amps - upgraded and modified (45 watts)

I have run the following amps on the woofers with zero issues:

Atma-Sphere MA-1's (140 watts)
McAlister PP-150 (75 watts)
Bella Extreme 100's (100 watts in pentode mode)

I will go as far to say that the MA-1's on the woofers sound better than any other amp I have tried there - including some very well known and respected SS amps.

George

zapper7 · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 03:45 pm »

Satfrat,

I have checked out the Music Fidelity amps, in fact I think Alan had some running the Silverlines in Walnut Creek last time I was there, or maybe it was the Monarchys

I am also thinking about the PS Audio HCA-2 amps, 4 of them on Agon right now for $600....any thoughts?

TomS · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 03:59 pm »

Walter Underwood (Wally), Underwood HiFi is the exclusive US distributor for Emerald Physics, as well as a dealer for many other lines, including Wyred4Sound and other Cullen modded products.

Angaria · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 06:00 pm »

that parasound isn't bad...but given you're only going up to 1kHz I'd actually go with a cheap class D option and spend more money on the tubes on top.

zapper7 · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 06:14 pm »

OK, I see that is where most people put their amps too.
Thanks

By the way, my layout requires the amps to be on separate sides as I have needed to move the CS2s out into the room further, and the speaker wires don't reach the center anymore, makes it a bit harder to use 2 different amps on a single speaker.

Z