[James Tanner]

Hi Daffy,

Sorry but I am puzzled as well other than the speakers may need more power than the 60 watts of the B60.

james

[daffy]

Hi James

Thanks for all the effort 

I’ll wait and see/hear what happens for a week or two.

Do I need more power ? (retorical)

with my previous amp my ideal volume (linear control) setting was 10 o clockish to reach pleasant spl so i wouldn’t think i did use much juice from the 110/190 Watts

With the B-60 it’s  also 10 o clockish maybe a bit more towards 11 to reach the same pleasant spl (when te wive is away  )
So why should I need a heavier amp if the B-60 has quite a high dampingfactor to keep control over the speakers and the volume knob isn’t going to reach the late hours.

What can the extra buffer of unused Watts bring soundwise?  I always thought nothing.
Please correct me if i’m wrong.


Daffy

[James Tanner]

Hi James

Thanks for all the effort 

I’ll wait and see/hear what happens for a week or two.

Do I need more power ? (retorical)

with my previous amp my ideal volume setting was 10 o clockish so i wouldn’t think i did use much juice from the 110/190 Watts

With the B-60 it’s  also 10 o clockish maybe a bit more towards 11 to reach pleasant spl (when te wive is away  )
So why should I need a heavier amp if the B-60 has quite a high dampingfactor to keep control over the speakers and the volume knob isn’t going to reach the late hours.

What can the extra buffer of unused Watts bring soundwise?  I always thought nothing.
Please correct me if i’m wrong.


Daffy

Hi Daffy,

The volume control position does not indicate the power used and the damping factor is not an issue.  I really think you need more power.

james

[Hififreak]

I really think you need more power.

james

I don't think so.

I'm using the ADAM Art Pencil speaker/Bryston B60 SST combination.
Specs:
3-way passive bass reflex speaker
Woofer Ø 186 mm (7“), HexaCone®
A.R.T. tweeter see A.R.T. Technology
Freq.response (± 3 dB) 35Hz - 35kHz
Impedance: 4 ohm
Efficiency 88 dB/W/m
Power handling 160W (sin), 250W (Musik)
W x H x D 210 x 1175 x 310mm
(8.2” x 46.2” x 12.2”)
Weight 23kg (50.7 lb.)
Warranty 10 years



You're glad you're not my neighbour James.   

[denjo]

James
A very famous judge once said "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

I used to think that one should just use adequate watts for your usual listening levels until I owned the B100 SST (and now the Accuphase E-450 with 180 watts) and feel an efforlessness in the way the music flows. The music does not sound shouty or strained but is very relaxed (not in a laid back sense). Its like sitting in a Jaguar, cruising at normal speeds, but having a feeling the car can spurt or accelerate when the situation demands. When I play Beethoven's Pastorale, the "busy" passages are presented very naturally, withe every instrument heard as a distinct instrument within the whole rather than sounding like one congealed mass of indistinguishable instruments.

Just my experience!

Best Regards
Dennis

[daffy]

Hello guys

(hee Hififreak jij ook hier )



    Eeehrr Stupid  me

The kef loudspeakers i’m using are biwired and the biwire config. Of these kefs are  a bit different than ussual, we have a woofers + squaker(mid) binding post and tweeter + supertweeter binding post instead the ussual  woofer(s) binding post  and squaker (mid)+ tweeter (+supertweeter) binding post
I’m using a multicore litze cable  a la Kimber 8tc but wayyyy  better and a wholeeee lot cheaper.
It’s an industrial shielded  robotarm/dragline cable.

   It’s got a lot of tiny little colored threads and my problem had something to do with correct phase and those tiny little colored threads. 
I made a consistend (STUPID ) error with the binding posts of the B-60 because they are mirrored and only with the highs.

  Why ??? beats me , stupid ,stupid ,stupid

But despite I made a STUPID error I still can hear "subjective" diffrences between  the various  used Rca and loudspeakercables I tried, voodoo ??? or not, there’s still some tweaking to do.

Example: Kimber 8TC vs. RobotArm : 8tc relative muddy,round wooly bass a little sluggish- ra: tight, ritmic ,deeper
                                        dry bass (o yeah aa)

                                        mid: 8TC very Sweet but to polite to show the edge of a dirty 
                                        voice like Bonn scott/Brian johnson of Ac/Dc the RA does better, more lifelike 
                                        and real. DDDDirtYYY aa

                                        Highs: 8TC nice and sweet but with the RA much more clarity and openness, much more holographic
                                 
With different Rca’s same story but with minor impact compared to speakercable,but still….....

http://www.viablue.de/com/quattro_analogue_silver_audiocable.shtml    http://www.jkacoustics.nl/KabelType2.htm dutch.

http://www.jvg-kabels.nl/basis.html dutch.

Conclusion: The B-60 is a Hell  of a fine small amp, but needs correct phase  .  there is certainly enough juice and control over here  aa
Me Happy

Daffy


p.s. geeeee my english is rusty, what a polish lately because of bryston and if you feel the need correct me if i'm wrong I will correct your Dutch

MMM a awfull lot of smile's

@Hififreak ja,ja kabeltjes we weten het 

[daffy]

Something wrong with my B-60sst ???

From the  moment of arrival my B -60 sounded disappointing compared to my previous
Marantz pm-14 mk-II Ki,  one flat wall of sound 1 mtr in front of the speakers with no depth and a little cuppy/nasal unnatural with voices.

sure i first made a stupid phase mistake with the ls-cable,(certainly not a short circuit) and when I corrected the problem of course everything sounded better and in my first euphoria
I was quite happy but that didn’t last very long, still a flat and uninspiring sound.

Two weeks ago I went to my dealer with all my hifi stuff to see what’s the problem.
First we listened to the B-60 and the Bcd-1, lots of eyebrows went up , is this everything  .
In comes a 2B sst to see if it b-60 was underpowered for my speakers, connected the pre of
The B-60 to the  2B sst and hit the play button verdict: sound wise absolute zip 0,0% nothing nada difference.

Then we connected my own “old” Marantz and from the moment i switched the power button the “magic” started, lots of space, emotion (no distortion) etc.
Everybody got a smile on their face and finally knew why I was disappointed in the b-60
More intergrated’s more or less in the same price bracket where brought in to compare with the B-60 and the Marantz.

First a Trigon energy : http://www.trigon-audio.de/html/en/energy.htm
Verdict :better than the b-60 (space, dimension etc.) but worse than the Marantz.
To analytical and clinical ,present in the high’s

Second a Symphonic line RG14 Edition: http://www.symphonic-line.de/preise_vollverstaerker.html  (crappy site)

Verdict: way  better than the B-60 and better/different than the Marantz, “musical” open
Sucks you right into a good live cd, too tapping,  happy.

All test with the Bcd-1 as source and with my own kef XQ5 loudspeakers,Rca's,Ls-cable
Also toyed a bit with different Rca’s and powercords witch made quite some difference for good and bad.
(didn’t switch during the test but afterwards) 

So at this moment I have the Symponic line at home and the B-60 stayed behind at my dealer
to see if there is something wrong with the B-60 he contacted the importer to find a solution/answer/opinion.

So work in progress.

I certainly hope there is something wrong with the B-60 that can be fixed because it’s a very nice little compact package with the Bcd-1(a hell of a fine cd-player) and it should be a little devil in disguise.

Owww I wait and owww I hope

Daffy

[danman]

I am having a hard time understanding here! This is a first for me! Something is strange indeed!

[rob80b]

Hi Daffy,

Makes me wonder if one of the speaker connections inside the B60 may have been wired out of phase, unlikely with Bryston, but things happen.
Also from what I understand you are in Europe, so hopefully you're unit was configured for the correct voltage, another unlikely scenario, but again you never know???

Robert

[jethro]

Daffy:

I didn't re-read the first page, but at this stage I think you have narrowed it down to the pre-amp
section of the b60 which doesn't appeal to you. Have you tried a BP-25 with the B60 amp section ?

Nevermind - I didn't realize that the other gear were integrateds and not pre-amps.

[Moon Doggy]

Spec sheets are not always accurate. I would question the power handling of 15-150 watts. The KEF XQ 5 are a 4 way speaker with 5 speakers. A Supertweeter, tweeter, 6.5" mid, and 2-6.5" bass drivers. I would say the power handling would be at 60-200 watts putting the B-60SST at the bottom end of the range and at a distinct disadvantage to the Marantz amp rated at 110 watts. My friend has the Bryston B60 amp driving a pair of Mission bookshelf speakers and the sound is anything but dark. Detailed and dynamic is the quality of sound in her system. I agree with James that power is a problem. Or one of the problems...

Regards, James S

[werd]

Throw a 4bsq on it.. ... thats been my solution for everything lately. No but seriousily the b60 is not enough power, especially when the last amp you used was a 110 watt marantz prior.  More in line with the marantz would have to be the b100. I know you tried the 2b and it didnt have the affect that the marantz had. One thing the bryston needs is a little bit of time to get used to. They are extremely neutral and can take some time. But rest assured once your ear becomes accustomed to it everthing else sounds tiresome.

Marantz amps are more colored and that kinda draws u in. It kinda reminds me of the way they sell tv's with the color temp turned up on them so they get your attn first and for sales. However the recommended settings are alot lower for extend viewing at home.

i would recommend the b100 and take it home a for awhile. Its very slick looking and your wife will love it.
I

[Hififreak]

The used speakers are Kef XQ 5  with the following specifications

sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 90dB
impedance: 8 ohm (3.2 ohm minimum)
frequency responce at 15' horizontally of axis +- 3dB 45Hz-55kHz
Amplifier requierments 15-150 W

So i think the B-60 would be quite adequate.

Sure it is Mr. Daffy. 
So there must be something wrong with your B60.
According to the specs of the speaker the B60 can do the job.
A few of my speakers, more differcult than the Kef's (Adam Audio Art Pencil, Quadral Phonolgue Aurum 5), sound great with the B60.
The 14B SST has more power, but that's all.
More power is no solution for this problem, if you have already enough.

[rob80b]

Hi Daffy,
Just to confir, I've tried out the B60R running the Dynaudio Contours which have a sensitivity of 86dBs and are widely known to be power hungry, sure the 4BSST does a better job, but the little B60 does have similar characteristics.

Robert

[rob80b]

Sorry Daffy,

Just read over your post more carefully, so ignore my reference to the phase  problem seeing you also tried out the 2BSST
"First we listened to the B-60 and the Bcd-1, lots of eyebrows went up , is this everything  .
In comes a 2B sst to see if it b-60 was underpowered for my speakers, connected the pre of
The B-60 to the  2B sst and hit the play button verdict: sound wise absolute zip 0,0% nothing nada difference."

As mentioned elsewhere maybe it's the preamp section, if you have yet to try the B60's amp section with another pre-amp.

Robert

[werd]

The used speakers are Kef XQ 5  with the following specifications

sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 90dB
impedance: 8 ohm (3.2 ohm minimum)
frequency responce at 15' horizontally of axis +- 3dB 45Hz-55kHz
Amplifier requierments 15-150 W

So i think the B-60 would be quite adequate.

Sure it is Mr. Daffy. 
So there must be something wrong with your B60.
According to the specs of the speaker the B60 can do the job.
A few of my speakers, more differcult than the Kef's (Adam Audio Art Pencil, Quadral Phonolgue Aurum 5), sound great with the B60.
The 14B SST has more power, but that's all.
More power is no solution for this problem, if you have already enough.

Respectfully, no it isnt(for this case). He can undoubtedly hook the b60 up and it will work. He previousily owned a 110 watt intergrated that weighs in at about 50lbs. I am sure the b60 doesnt weight half of that. His last amp will be way more robust in every aspect. This is the issue and why he is unsatisfied. I kinda get the feeling he is picking his pieces on a price point. Bryston can tend be a little more expensive and the result is he underpowered his soundstage(compared to what he is used to) when priced comparatively.

[rob80b]

Hi Werd

You've got a point, I'd have a hard time giving up the 4BSST in place of the B60.
But Daffy also mentioned he tried a few other intergrates besides the Marantz.

Robert

[daffy]

The used speakers are Kef XQ 5  with the following specifications

sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 90dB
impedance: 8 ohm (3.2 ohm minimum)
frequency responce at 15' horizontally of axis +- 3dB 45Hz-55kHz
Amplifier requierments 15-150 W

So i think the B-60 would be quite adequate.

Sure it is Mr. Daffy. 
So there must be something wrong with your B60.
According to the specs of the speaker the B60 can do the job.
A few of my speakers, more differcult than the Kef's (Adam Audio Art Pencil, Quadral Phonolgue Aurum 5), sound great with the B60.
The 14B SST has more power, but that's all.
More power is no solution for this problem, if you have already enough.

Respectfully, no it isnt(for this case). He can undoubtedly hook the b60 up and it will work. He previousily owned a 110 watt intergrated that weighs in at about 50lbs. I am sure the b60 doesnt weight half of that. His last amp will be way more robust in every aspect. This is the issue and why he is unsatisfied. I kinda get the feeling he is picking his pieces on a price point. Bryston can tend be a little more expensive and the result is he underpowered his soundstage(compared to what he is used to) when priced comparatively.

Totally wrong conclusion in my experience 

I,m not making earthquakes here at home   

even my hobbyroom Nad C320BEE (50 Watt 8 Ohm) can drive these speaker properly,and did i've mentioned a 10 watt valve amp ok coloured sound but at very pleasant spl. (no clipping or distortion)
also the 2B sst with the b-60 pre out did not make any difference soundwise (see post #26), to bad we didn't try a different pre amp with the B-60 end.

And what about the cuppy/nasal unnatural voices  ?

In a first session at my dealer we had  the same conclusion with 2 other pair of (easy driveable) speakers, flat sound.
that initiated the second test where I brought in all my own hifi stuff.
ALL the other tried intergrated amps (at home/dealer total 6) had more space and depth, 3d than the B-60, yes even the Nad.
This is why  I/ we think that there is a chance that there might be something wrong with the b-60 and if that's not the case than out goes the b-60  and in comes the symphonic line.

BUT I REALLY hope there is something wrong with the b-60 because I (...she  ) ok WE really love the b-60,Bcd-1 package

Daffy

p.s. a BIG applause  for my dealer , very good and great service. http://www.studioalkmaar.nl/

[rob80b]

Hi Daffy,

Not too sure if you have the B60 at home with you, but looking at the specs and photos of the Marantz pm14 mkII KII I see there is a pre-in and out, have you tried the pre-out of the Marantz into the B60's pre-in?
The Marantz looks like a serious piece of kit though and I'm happy to see they're still serious about their products, I still cannot part with my 30 plus year old Marantz 1070 integrated.

http://www.marantzphilips.nl/marantz_pm14_amplifier/

Robert

[werd]

I think i am beginning to understand whats going on here. Is this dealer an authorized Bryston dealer because i dont think he is? I would strongly recommend seeing a dealer that is authorized with bryston. If so disregard this post but it would be hard to get proper rep from unauthorized dealer
especially from an oversees product. He is going to want to sell you his gear. Dont get me wrong his store looks snazzy and pretty cool. I would love to spend some time in there. i couldnt figure out why he is trying to sell your a bp 60 and in the midst of all that other gear. Now i believe his intentions are to steer u away from it. I could be completely wrong so dont take it to heart.... its only a hunch.