[wappinghigh]

Hi Vinnie.

I've started this as a new topic because having now tried the 30.2 with a couple of British speakers....I'm wondering if ANY are suitable!

Basically I've looked through the forum topics on "suitable speakers" and it seems all the favourites are rated at 90+ sensitivity..even up to 95-100! I note the WLM's you partner with are similarly rated into the mid 90's+

When I was tried them with my Linns, the Proacs and some KEF's (all 84-85 sensitivity) the dealer and I noticed that things didn't sit so well on the volume side...we kept wanting to turn up the volume!....which is a shame since we both agreed the 30.2 has such a "clear" sound...

Without even prompting he sent me away ( that's saying something for a HIFI dealer trying to trade in a recession!)...to go and take the amp down to a Klipsch dealer...to quote "this amp is very pure, but needs to be partnered with some American speakers...."

I know you are probably going to say Da.....! But I'm so used to British gear and the British sound. I'm now in a quandry...

In Australia, the range on the European side is huge, but US speakers are very limited....

Don't suppose you know what your UK distributor partners your amps with by any chance....

AB

[stevenkelby]

Alex, when I think high sensitivity British, I think Tannoy.

I heard those in London. Fantastic sound, jaw dropping, but that model is 10'000+ Pounds!

Haven't heard cheaper ones but still, worth investigating maybe.

Steve

[TONEPUB]

I guess it depends on how loud you need to play.
I'm using my Isabella/30.2 combination in my living room
(small room about 11 x 17 feet) with a pair of Harbeth
Compact 7ES-3's and am quite happy with the sound.

The 30.2 did a great job with the Stirling Broadcast LS3/5a's
as well...

I'm pretty sure the Harbeths are about 87db....

[denjo]

I'm pretty sure the Harbeths are about 87db....

Jeff

You are absolutely right! The SHL 5 and Compact 7s are rated conservatively at 87 dB (8 ohms), with impedance rarely dipping below 6 ohms. I have read independent reviews which tested the SPLs to be higher than the published specs, at about 90 dB.

For those interested, please visit the Harbeth website www.harbeth.co.uk


Best Regards
Dennis

[Vinnie R.]

Hi AB,

Harbeths!  HL5s work great!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61349.msg548947#msg548947

Best regards,

Vinnie

[R Browne]

From my own experience Audio Note speakers work very well with RWA amplification. Until recently I was using a pair of Audio Note AN/J speakers that I have owned for about 12 years with a Sig 30 with very satisfying results on all types of music. I currently use a pair of Tonian Labs TL-D1 speakers, which are better suited to my room, but they are only available directly from the designer/builder in Burbank, CA

One speaker that I have not heard, but looks intriguing, is the Aspara Acoustics HL2. Info at: http://www.asparaacoustics.co.uk/hl2_concept.php One of the designers was involved with the now defunct Impulse Loudspeakers which were very well regarded. I had a pair of their Impulse Lali speakers for a short time years ago and they were great.

[kitten]

I'm using British speakers with Isabella/30.2 power, Epos ES11, which are rated at around 86db 1w/1m but a fairly easy load with a mechanical rolloff on the bass/mid driver and one capacitor to the tweeter. There is no way I could go up to full volume and remain in the room, but I've no way of knowing how much the gain from the Isabella is contributing to this.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi R Browne,

I forgot about those Audio Note speakers.  I have quite a few RWA 30.2 customers who use Audio Note AN/E and AN/Js

Thanks,

Vinnie

[wappinghigh]

Vinnie...

Mr/Ms Kittten raised an interesting point.

How much gain (if any) does your preamp put on the set up?

AB

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie...

Mr/Ms Kittten raised an interesting point.

How much gain (if any) does your preamp put on the set up?

AB

Hi AB,

0dB or 12dB (gain select switch is in the back).

The 30.2 power amp (and 70.2 monoblocks) comes standard with 24dB of gain.  You may or may not want to use the 12dB option on the Isabella (depending on the sensitivity of your speakers and the output voltage of your source). 

If using the 0dB option allows you full useable range out of the volume control (i.e., you don't need to go louder when you reach MAX), stick with the 0dB setting.  If you find that at the 0dB setting you are at MAX volume, you are not clipping, and you want to go louder, then use the 12dB setting. 

Best regards,

Vinnie

[wappinghigh]

So using the preamps switch gives you...12+24= 36dB of gain if you need it????

Vinnie your gear rocks!!!!!!!

[Vinnie R.]

So using the preamps switch gives you...12+24= 36dB of gain if you need it????

Vinnie your gear rocks!!!!!!!

Yes, but that is a lot of gain - and gain is NOT the same as power. 

For example, you can have a 1 watt amp with 100dB of gain.  The gain tells you how much the input signal is amplified (multiplied), but the power rating of the amp dictates the max output voltage. 

We decided to offer a switch for 0/12dB gain because so many preamps on the market have a TON of gain.  This tends to give a "hair trigger" volume control - where the volume gets very loud early on the volume control.  This should tell the user that they have too much gain.  This is why the 0dB gain switch is so nice - it gives you the current gain of the tube stage and all the sonic attributes of it, but does not boost voltage when it is not needed.  For amplifiers that are not as sensitive (i.e., their input sensitivity specification is a higher number), or for systems with less efficient speakers or with sources with lower output voltage, having the 12dB of gain can be a good thing.

Ideally, you want the most useable range out of your volume control.  MAX volume should be as loud as you ever would play it (without reaching distortion).  If you are reaching distortion (or it is just way to loud) well-before you reach max on your volume control, this means there is too much gain in the system.  Ideally, you only use as much gain as you need.  Having too much gain gives the hair-trigger volume that I mentioned above, and it also boosts more noise (reduces the SNR spec).

So when you read posts of users talking about "at only 9 o'clock on the volume amplifier X rated at 10 watts sounds louder than amplifier Y rated at 100 watts, so maybe it is really a more powerful amp!" this is not useful information about how powerful the amplifier is.  It just tells you that amplifier X has more gain.  At some point, amplifier X is going to run out of juice before amplifier Y   

Hope this is not confusing 

Vinnie

[wappinghigh]

Yep. Totally understand.

Been out with your (or should I say Steve's)  amp to a couple of dealers already... Everyone very impressed...
Hitting the serious guys tomorrow...your amp needs speakers with >90dB efficiency IMHO.

I'm after floorstanders (On second thoughts I'd rather not stuff around with adding a sub...it can be a real fiddle and potential source of AC interference)...Can't get Tannoy's(BTW some reach $35,000 so prob a good thing!), so narrowed choice down to Mission m34 or 35i's, B&W 683 or 684's and Monitor Audio Silver 6 or 8's. (All "British" Chinese if you get my drift!) They should all handle current 30.2 set up and also a future biamp.....

Catch ya AB

[Rocket]

Hi,

Have you had an opportunity to listen to aurum cantus speakers?

90db should be enough for you.

Regards

Rod

[Vinnie R.]

Hitting the serious guys tomorrow...your amp needs speakers with >90dB efficiency IMHO.

Hi AB,

Do you have any dealers who sell WLM La Scalas (93dB) or WLM Divas? (97dB) -- these work incredibly well.  Based on your seach for a warmer, more "British sound," the WLM La Scalas would be your best match! 
http://www.redwineaudio.com/wlm/la_scala.html

Solid bass down to 30Hz (no need for a sub), and one Sig 30.2 will be all you'll need! 

Vinnie

[eril]

While not strictly British, I suggest you consider JM-Reynaud speakers, which have the "British" sound, only more immediate and emotional.
I much preferred them to Proac, Spendor, Harbeth - while not being "American" sounding.

[wappinghigh]

Vinnie.

I had to return the 30.2 the other day

A huge thanks to Steve for the lend.

It's a fantastic product Vinnie. To do justice I'd need to spend $5,000- $7,500 USD (including the right speakers)..
and I have just run outa cash...

I found that your amp was much better with highly efficient speakers, but I just couldn't find good enough ones over here. The WLM's and Harbeth's are not available. Neither are most of the others mentioned...The best ones I found were a pair of cheap Missions at 93db, but though they could hold the amp OK, they sounded crap....Yeh I can get efficient Tannoys but at $35,000 AUD "What the....."

It's interesting to go back and read the post by jwes ("will RWA work?"). For my ears/room, I reakon I'd need 2x30.2s biamped. But now someones gone and suggested 4x70.2 in a biamped config.....!!!!!!

So I'm going to sit tight. Save, and bite the bullet when things get better.....

Thanks for all your help. AB

[Vinnie R.]

Hi AB,

You are very welcome, and feel free to contact me if I can be of more service in the future...

Best regards,

Vinnie