[art]

Arthur and I are supposed to get together later today, to hand his unit back to him. He is going to concentrate on how the analogue part of it sounds. Eventually, I will get him and one other person to listen to what I think will be the final supply design. A week or so after CES is my guess.

Pat

[tonyptony]

One other person? How might this one other person be selected?

[art]

Already was. I offered it to you at one point. Didn't I?

Anyway, Arthur has his in hand. Might not hear back until Tuesday.

Pat

[art]

Those of you interested in the mod to the analogue stage may find this post to be of interest:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=378586&postcount=72

As I said there, make what you care to of the results.

Pat

[tonyptony]

Already was. I offered it to you at one point. Didn't I?

Anyway, Arthur has his in hand. Might not hear back until Tuesday.

Pat

Sorry Pat. I wasn't sure at the time if it was a traveling mod for those who wished to be part of a listening group, or something that had to be done one's unit if interested. I had the impression it was the latter, and at the time did not yet have a Duet. No problem.

[art]

This is a 2 part post. The first part is for anyone considering the mod. The second part is for all of the people who have been e-mailing us about it. I can not write the same thing, over and over, for folks who have heard that there is some mod, somewhere, and ask a thousand questions about it. So, all the AC'ers can ignore that.

First part:

I have a good idea what supply I want to use. That should be settled after some folks get back from CES. That leaves 2 issues remaining, and both are price related. As mentioned before, the supply may force the basic price up to $600. Yes, I really do not want to go that high. So, we shall see.

The second is the analogue mod. Not only its price, but whether it will happen or not. The problem with the analogue mod is that it takes a lot of work. Due to the layout of the Duet pcb, it is very hard to do a lot of the things that I want to do. It takes a lot of time to do what I consider necessary. The price may need to be more than an additional $100. Probably $200.

As much as I could use the money, I do have a life other than audio. At this point, I am not keen about spending so much of it trying to solder teeny-tiny caps that don't really fit onto a pcb. The decision on whether to offer it or not will pretty much made by the folks who are evaluating it. Yes, it is better, but is it really worth that much? By adding some nice RCA jacks, the extra parts cost and time makes me lean towards raising that mod to an additional $200.

Is it worth that much? Frankly, I don't know. I will need the honest input of the folks evaluating it to guide me. So, if the basic mod has to go to $600, and the add-on is $200............is it really $800 better? I would think at this point, a lot of folks would bow out. I probably would, if I was inclined to pay for such a service.

Since you guys are the driving force behind this, I need your feedback.

Thanks.

OK, part 2 for the non-AC'ers:

The company is not offering this mod. I am. There will be no mention of it on our site. Do not contact the company. Contact me through this forum.

I will only accept units for mod once you have been notified to send your unit to me. Yes, it will go to the company address, but do not send anything unless you have been told to do so.

These will only be done as I have time. In order to be fair to those who are already waiting, you will have to get in line with them. And do so here. There is no way that I will be able to keep track of folks hitting me from all directions.

As you may have figured out, the price has not been set yet. I am not ready to accept any units yet. The first post in this thread outlines what I will probably do. The only change is that the analogue mod (if it happens) will have some nice RCA jacks. Audiophile grade, so to speak.

I hope this is clear. I do not have the time to answer all of your questions, if you are not following this thread. If it is something germane, ask it here, as there are probably others with the same question.

Thanks for your interest and patience.



Pat

[tonyptony]

Pat, I understand where you're coming from. As the guinea pig unit(s) are only in a small number of listener's hands I guess my only comment (regarding the analog mod and the digital) is that we will have to hope that they can do a thorough, objective assessment of the modded unit against either an unmodded Duet or SB3. Even better would be the ability to add one of the other modded SB3s that are out there. With that we'd hope to get a detailed assessment added in this thread for our consideration. Short of everybody being able to listen to it (not possible) I think that's about all we could do.

The problem is basing a decision like this on a small sample set that by its nature has a non-deterministic sonic signature. IOW, no one knows how a system will sound simply by looking at the list of interconnected components. We may be able to find out that it's better in a relative sense for the test systems, but not how much better it will be for anyone else's. Some extrapolation ahead.

Of course, many things in audio are of the same nature.

[art]

Small sample size? Yes, maybe, but......

If the full mod price goes to $800, it would seem to me that you are wandering into an area where other options look viable. That is what my concern is.

Let's assume that it does blow their doors off. Is it really worth $800, on top of the $150 or so the Duet RX costs? Seems for $1K, there are alternatives.

But if you only need a really good transport, and it is only $500 on top of what you already have.......

See my point?

Pat

[tonyptony]

Understood.

[art]

Arthur has listened to both supplies, and he says "They are closer than they are different."

Well, I hope so. One may sound better this way, that one another way.

Might be a moot point. A month or so ago, Digi-key told me that one of the transformers that I was fixin' to use was now special order. Now, they all are!

So, that makes the supply decision easier: it is going to have to be one of the toroid versions. I really don't want to, but I doubt they will make those special order. Yes, I could find the equivalent at Mouser, but they don't carry all the ones that I would want, either.

"What is wrong with toroids?"

Well, for this product: cost. I am trying hard to make it $500. That extra $8 for a toroid makes it harder. Plus, they let more crap through. So, Arthur and I are going to hook up next weekend, and he will get the toroid version that I will most likely use. (I think Dan has one, but similar to the EI supplies, in terms of design. Since it will not longer be a "hum-bucker" style EI, I can do some things differently. If I did them with a hum-bucker, it wouldn't work out as well.)

So, that is where we stand. Arthur is busy all this week, and I need time to concentrate on my consulting stuff. (Which is looking good this week, despite not going to CES for the umpteenth dozen time! Who needs CES?)

Pat

[tonyptony]

Thanks for the update, Pat. We're trying not too be too pesty, I hope. I assume you may have a way to mitigate the crap that you will have with a toroid. I also suspect you're trying to balance that against the further additional cost.

[art]

Yes to both.

This is o/t but.........

Many years ago, I took one of my SPDIF creations to a buddy's house. I A-B'ed the way everyone else does it to the way that I do it. My buddy has a pair of Diapasons. For the first time ever, he heard a stereo image!

Great if you listen to orchestral music only. He was impressed by how open everything sounded with my trick circuit.

Pat

[tonyptony]

Many years ago, I took one of my SPDIF creations to a buddy's house. I A-B'ed the way everyone else does it to the way that I do it. My buddy has a pair of Diapasons. For the first time ever, he heard a stereo image!

Great if you listen to orchestral music only.

Well, not to get too o/t but I will gently disagree. I've been listening to direct radiators and my Shahinians for coming on 20 years now (in different shapes and sizes and in a number of high end systems). And before that, to directs for maybe 15 years more. I've heard everything from the old Advents to Thiels to Wilsons to many more. While there is an inherent difference in the polyradial design, I can say that with careful placement, setup, and all that other good stuff they produce image placement and localization for most all types of music that is closer to the real thing than stereo, per se. This from someone who listens to live jazz, classical, ensemble, and even rock music many times a year. My home listening is made up of less than 30% classical, BTW.

Hard to do? Mmm, maybe. But worth it to me. Do I get scalpel-like precision in stereo? No. Does real live music sound that way? No. Since all musical reproduction is a series of compromises, I made mine based on providing to me the best sense of acoustical realism.

I promise, that's the end of my o/t discussion for this thread.

[ajayrav]

Any updates, Pat?

[arthurs]

I have the unit so let me chime in here.  The analog mod really improves it from stock.  Quieter background, better weight to the presentation (but still very balanced timbre) and the soundstage is much improved.  Of the 2 power supplies we've beta'd they are more alike than different, but Pat is sending me what he hopes will be the final PS this week, so more to come on how it changes things.

I just got it hooked up yesterday via the digital out to a very nice DAC, so I'll have some more to report on that as well when I have a chance, but initial listen last night was even better than the analog out, so the outlook is very positive. 

[tonyptony]

arthurs, more please. What are you comparing it to? The MBL? As wacky as it may sound, how does the mod compare?

[arthurs]

I haven't really a/b'd the Duetta analog with the MBL and taken enough notes to respond too coherently.  That said, the MBL is better to my ear, and should be for the differences in what they are.  Fuller, richer, more layered is probably how I would shorthand it.  The Duetta is really very good though and is an extremely pleasant listen, the analog mod is well above stock for sure.

Now give me a couple weeks running the digital out into some different DAC's and that will probably be a much tighter comparison with the MBL. 

[tonyptony]

...Now give me a couple weeks running the digital out into some different DAC's and that will probably be a much tighter comparison with the MBL. 

Can you guess how I feel about that?

 

[art]

Yes, I am alive......and working on making progress.

Tony, don't get too excited. The analogue mod will probably not be offered. It takes too much work, and is a major hassle for me to perform. I may hold one proto PCB back just for you that has it, but...........

Pat

[tonyptony]

I am a patient man.