Preamp Smackdown!

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miklorsmith

Preamp Smackdown!
« on: 6 Nov 2008, 03:39 pm »
I had a g2g this past weekend.  We had five really nice preamps that all played a stint.  I have a picture of all five in my rack but I haven't dumped the camera, I'll do that soon.

In order from cleanest to pfat-est they were:  Dodd Battery Preamp, Modwright 36.5 DM, Red Wine Isabella, Lamm LL2 Deluxe, and Wyetech's recently revised Jade. 

The rest of the system was my Rega/Lessloss digital rig, Red Wine 70.2 and Behringer amps to my Zu Definition 2 speaks.

Two of the guys liked the Dodd and Modwright best.  They're both planar guys and had never heard my system before.  The Dodd is as clean and clear a window as I can imagine a tubed preamp being.  Think "good solid state", with a little 3D enhancement.  I didn't find it edgy or offensive but it didn't contribute that extra tubular luv that I look for either.

The Modwright is an insane resolution machine.  It runs to the lean side in my system but if you're not looking for pfat-sound, triode contributions from the preamplifier it's sublime.  I said right off the bat and it remains true, I've never heard such stage depth as it provides.  It paints the back corners with clear pictures of what's happening with even minor players.  If you run tube amps, this might be the ultimate preamplifier choice.

The Isabella is near neutral and noticeably quiet.  It sounds like there's less between the notes, like a removal of noise.  All the preamps were dead quiet at the listening seat, the noise removal isn't of static grunge but a kind of stripping away just a little of every sound. What is removed is a seeming electronic haze that isn't noticeable until it's removed.  Going back to the other preamplifiers doesn't make them seem to have it either but the Isabella definitely does not.  I did not perceive any part of the primary instrumentation nor harmonics had been lost in the process.  It's very compelling yet definitely more matter-of-fact than I usually like since the rest of my rig is solid state and "down the middle".  It has a gain switch - 0 or 12 db, I have been using it in 0 db mode where it acts as a current buffer.  It is very extended at both ends and very dynamic in my system.  Jeff at Tone found it somewhat dynamically flat in his big rig but not in mine - it plays huge here.

The Lamm is in my all-time hall of fame no matter what comes after.  It's incredibly musical, doesn't tip into mush, and retains good resolution though I definitely thought the Isabella and Modwright were better there.  I'm not sure about the Dodd though it seems like it should have been more resolving.  I find the balance between these qualities to be very pleasing and think it's a great value at the new price.  At used prices it's one of the best deals in audio.

The Wyetech is a significant step further into Big Tube sound.  It's more toward the old school, big big tone, diminished leading edges and spatial effects.  It has persuasive, elegant treble and bass slammage is terrific.  The voicing borrows what was good about vintage tube sound but adds jump factor, frequency extension, and a modern spin.  It makes big, gutsy sound and is an absolute kick to hear. 

The same guys that brought the Dodd also brought Genesis G60 tube monos.  I flirted with using them for the shootout but felt they were more colored than the RWAs and would have inserted more of their own character into the mix.  Also there was a level matching concern with the subs.  Had we used these amps or the 45 SET amp I really want the Modwright could easily have come out #1 for me in the comparison.

One thing I should have noted before - I heard the Dodd for a total of 40 minutes with mostly music I don't know.  I currently own the Modwright and feel strong about the assessments there.  I've had the Wyetech on review loan for about three weeks and have a decent handle on it.  The Isabella showed up last week and is still showing subtle signs of burn-in.

It was really fun.  I have everything dialed in well enough now that the differences between the preamps really are night-and-day.  There aren't any weird frequency anomalies, reverberant modes, digital nasties, or anything else that obscures.  I guess the system is pretty neutral that way so that any one piece can tip it in either direction.  Most of the guys were already familiar with the system and didn't have to acclimate.  We all had a gas. 

I wasn't paying attention to it at the time but looking back I believe every single one of the preamplifiers was somebody's favorite. 

Hey, this is post # 2000!   :drums: :thankyou: :bounce: :dance:
« Last Edit: 7 Nov 2008, 03:19 pm by miklorsmith »

satfrat

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Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #1 on: 6 Nov 2008, 03:53 pm »
Congrates on your *milestone* Mike, an excellent review also. :thumb: Even tho it's a nice read, it's really hard to take anything concrete away from it as all 5 could and probably would sound totally different with just a change of the amp, not to mention anything else in your system(but that's true of any gear review). But it's an enjoyable read regardless. :D


Cheers,
Robin

miklorsmith

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #2 on: 6 Nov 2008, 03:57 pm »
That's the whole point - depending on the voice of YOUR system you may prefer one or the other.  Generally I don't think an amplifier would make the preamp itself sound different but the pre and amp are a buddy team that need to compliment each other to taste.

satfrat

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Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #3 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:11 pm »
That's the whole point - depending on the voice of YOUR system you may prefer one or the other.  Generally I don't think an amplifier would make the preamp itself sound different but the pre and amp are a buddy team that need to compliment each other to taste.

I never would have thought so either til I've started witnessing just that at the NY RAVE's. It's sometimes shocking how different combinations of preamp/amps/speakers/ wires, etc can sound. There seems to be just so many combinations of "sounds" that can be derived depending on what gear you're using that it's a crap shoot just what you're going to hear from a certain combination. :dunno: Guess there's really no replacement for experience and that's why I so envy reviews like yourself who have just that. :notworthy: I have to drive 4+ hours just to get a taste of your life. :lol:

Cheers,
Robin

miklorsmith

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #4 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:13 pm »
HA, my life is nothing like this.  Thanks for the vote of confidence though.   :thumb:

chadh

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #5 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:29 pm »
Out of curiosity, what are the ballpark MSRPs for the five pre-amps you tested?

I'll admit to more than a little pre-amp envy here!  All five units consistently appear lustworthy in professional and user reviews alike.  When I dream of getting my hands on a world class pre-amp, though, I always imagine myself with a Supratek.  Any chance you've ever heard any of the Supratek pre-amps?  And if so would you be brave enough to make any sort of comparison to these others?

Thanks.

Chad

p.s.  For a pre-amp "smackdown", there seems to have been pitifully little smacking-down going on.  But the WWE has proven consistently that interest remains high if you never produce a decisive winner. 

rydenfan

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #6 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:37 pm »
Thanks for the interesting review. I hope some of the other attendees while chime in with their views as well.

miklorsmith

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #7 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:39 pm »
Good one!  Maybe "Preamp Massagedown" would be a better title?

I have not heard the Suprateks though Srajan has, and also has reported with comparisons on some of these listed here.

Let's see, the Dodd is $2,699 (and beautiful at that), the Modwright is $9k, the Isabella configured like the rest is $4k, the Lamm is $5,300 currently and the Wyetech is $4,900, resplendent in light purple paint - way cool.

Ryden, doubtful.  They're not forum mongers like me.  Plus I made them promise they wouldn't post, lest they disagree with my Incontrovertible Truth.   :D

bluemike

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #8 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:41 pm »
Those are some pretty nice Pre amps you demo'd
I'm sure I would be happy with any one of those
But my current pre amp is no slouch

Thanks for taking the time to post your impressions

mcullinan

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #9 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:43 pm »
I think you should put the VAC and Supratek pres on your list and be interested in your thoughts. The NY Ravers have never really had a preamp rave, maybe that is something we should do in the near future. The Lamm topped your list, but you own the Mod? Will you be geting a Lamm now?
Mike

miklorsmith

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #10 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:49 pm »
I've owned the Lamm as my main squeeze for almost two years, so it had a head start.  I already knew it intimately.   :D

I wouldn't declare it the winner outright but it's damn good.

I'd love to hear both of those.  I'm already destabilizing though, by the time any others get here I'll have a much smaller pool.

rydenfan

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #11 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:53 pm »
It is impressive that the Dodd perfomed so well while being at the lowest price point.

bluemike

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #12 on: 6 Nov 2008, 04:55 pm »
It is impressive that the Dodd perfomed so well while being at the lowest price point.
In my opinion Gary's stuff is crazy good for the money he charges :thumb:

S Clark

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Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #13 on: 6 Nov 2008, 05:06 pm »
It is impressive that the Dodd perfomed so well while being at the lowest price point.
In my opinion Gary's stuff is crazy good for the money he charges :thumb:

In addition, his service support is top notch. 
It's always nice to get a bit of confirmation when you are fairly new to this.  The Dodd pre was my first real audiophool purchase.  Now if I can just get off my a$$ and finish putting together my LS-9's instead of sitting here typing...

sjh500

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Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #14 on: 7 Nov 2008, 12:20 am »
Miklorsmith, the best I have heard would be the First Sound Presence Deluxe, have you ever compared it? Seems it would be a good fit in a showdown like that, great resolution, killer dynamics and utterly musical.

miklorsmith

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #15 on: 7 Nov 2008, 01:47 am »
Nope, add that to the list of preamps I haven't heard.  So little time, so little wherewithal . . .

lonewolfny42

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Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #16 on: 7 Nov 2008, 03:55 am »
The NY Ravers have never really had a preamp rave, maybe that is something we should do in the near future.
Mike

We have Mike....but most of those Rave's were before you joined the group. :wink:

HAL

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Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #17 on: 9 Nov 2008, 03:31 pm »
Does anyone know what tubes were in the Dodd Battery Preamp?  Were they the stock JJ's or something else?

miklorsmith

Re: Preamp Smackdown!
« Reply #18 on: 9 Nov 2008, 03:55 pm »
I'm not sure, a guest I didn't know much brought it.