[mightym]

I ran across these recently.  Other than the low efficiency, they seem to be pleasing those who've taken the plunge and bought them.

I wonder if these might be suitable in one of the Planet 10 Onken/Fonken boxes.

seems like they might make a cost effective HT starting point.  Given that you'd want to add a sub, the Tang band 6.5" are on sale at PE.  Possibly make a pretty compact set-up w/ high WAF?

Comments w/ regard to the Onken/Fonken boxes to educate a newb?

If someone has a working link to the Onken calculator that's shown on some of the aged web pages, I would very much like to see it, I keep running into dead links when I find someone who lists it.  Then I could run the numbers myself...

[planet10]

I wonder if these might be suitable in one of the Planet 10 Onken/Fonken boxes.

Comments w/ regard to the Onken/Fonken boxes to educate a newb?

Measured specs?

dave

[chrisby]

I wonder if these might be suitable in one of the Planet 10 Onken/Fonken boxes.

Comments w/ regard to the Onken/Fonken boxes to educate a newb?

Measured specs?

dave

Dave:
per PE's website:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-358

mightym:
comments re the mini-onken / fonken to a newb?

1) having built well over two dozen pairs of mini-onkens and several models of the extended Fonken family - not everyone is as fond of the Fostex drivers as we, but unless you know for certain you don't like them, the extra 8 or 9dB of sensitivity of the FE127 over the RS100 will come in very handy, regardless of how much power you have

2) if it's "given" that sub(s) will be required and you'd like something with WAF, you might want to take a look at a purpose built, integrated design such as the Tysen, which is FF85K and woofer (CSS SD7) per side * ,  or incorporate a smaller (milliFonken) size enclosure with woofer of your choice in a similar arrangement.  Note that the Tysen is a bi-amped system; regardless of which drivers you might use, with an XO point around 300Hz, a passive network can get rather expensive; and if you're thinking about it, the HP filters in all of the "plate" amps we've tried to date for such combos are, shall we say, "not great"

3) IINM, the Fonken design was not calculated with the Onken calculator, and as numerous builders who've followed the Planet10 plans, or otherwise heard the various models could attest, Dave has done a pretty good job with his running of the numbers for the specified drivers (CSS FR125, Fostex FE127E, FE167E, and F120A).  With the FE167E, need for additional woofer could well be eliminated for all but full-on HT immersion experience, in which case I'd guess the WAF would be moot?   



* Dave:  photo? 


YMMV

[mightym]

Thanks Dave, and Chrisby, for your responses.

I was looking at the little drivers, thinking little boxes, with front firing long vents ( semi aperiodic (sp)).  my guess was that with the largish X-max, for the little driver, they might work in an Onken style cab. and give decent midbass.

Dave, I love your site. I found it last year in a search, and really wish I had the room and budget to build a number of the designs found therein.  I was unaware that your Fonken's were developed independent of the Onken calculator.

John

[chrisby]

OK, for those who might be interested, Tysen is both the bi-amped 2-way with FF85K/SDX7 , and the cute little squirt namesake





both play a lot bigger than they look - anyone who's ever had a 3yr old kicking around will understand that

[mightym]

Chrisby,

Thanks for the Tysen info.

Where is the Tysen info available?  I googled it last night after casting about P-10 for info to no avail.  Have you ever considered a search function for the P-10 family of sites?  It's growing into quite a collection.

John

[planet10]

Where is the Tysen info available? 

It still needs some work before it is ready for public release. Email me for more info.

dave

[chrisby]

Chrisby,

 Have you ever considered a search function for the P-10 family of sites?  It's growing into quite a collection.

John

you don't want to see the basement

[mightym]

The basement is where all the best stuff is hidden.

We don't have basements around here.

[mightym]

Ok, I've been playing with the Cyr-Marc Onken calculator.  Reading Onken threads on several forums.  Generally trying to wrap my head around this cabinet alignment.

I simmed a whole bunch of Big and small drivers, read some more, then read some more.

There's not a whole lot of drivers which will work in an Onken alignment.

Most of the wide variety of units I simmed were unsuitable due to excessive vent length.  It is clearly stated on the worksheet that a vent area under 85 percent isn't an Onken.  If the vent length is over 35 Cm it too is unsuitable.

So it seems some low Fs, low Q, and high Vas drivers are suitable, and yet similar others were not.

However,  in simming several widerange/fullrange units, I found that if vent area was reduced to around 50 percent of Sd, I could shorten the vent length of an otherwise unsuitable driver to within spec for the Onken worksheet.

Does this then make it a straight bass reflex, with multiple long vents?

Interesting side note, by increasing the total resistance, the worksheet showed F3's, and Fb's much lower that the Fs of the driver, but at a severe efficiency penalty ( which I understand from the added resistance ) but also at a large increase of total internal volume ( this part I only "kind of" understand, and the worksheet doesn't give you the ability to choose internal volume ).

This morning I had an inspiration, and started running some already constructed Onken's through the calculations.  By and large they worked to within negligible magnitude differences.  However some were restricting the area of the vents, in order to make it work.

BTW The FE127 Fonken was just about spot-on in the worksheet, there was only about a Cm of difference in vent length, and about 1/2 Liter in volume.  Along with the good Press I've seen on that unit, makes them look more and more attractive.  I never doubted Dave's stuff though...

Back to the RS100-4, straight-up, w/ 85 Percent (of Sd ) vent area, the driver is unsuitable, vent length is several Cm too long.  If you reduce the total vent area to about half of Sd the vent length will drop to a suitable level.  If the vent length is too long to fit the box, can you turn it 90 degrees without deleterious result?  Wouldn't this work to filter shorter wavelengths?

I'm still on the fence, but would enjoy commentary from others. 

[planet10]

BTW The FE127 Fonken was just about spot-on in the worksheet, there was only about a Cm of difference in vent length, and about 1/2 Liter in volume.  Along with the good Press I've seen on that unit, makes them look more and more attractive.  I never doubted Dave's stuff though...  

Very interesting that it is so close.  I used my own methodology to come up with the Fonken, taking the general cosmetic look of an Onken, the self-bracing sides, and the high aspect ratio, relatively long ports (which effectively adds a series R to the ports), to get a design with a very inert box, that is not subject (nearly as much) to the dynamic tuning variations in a typical BR (ie tuning changes with the volume and with the dynamics of the music playing thru it)

dave

[mightym]

Since Dave has been watching this thread, and responding....

I have another Q re: the Dayton RS100-4 To whit:

how suitable would this driver be in the Aiko-Olson-Nagoka cabinet?

I found spec. for the lyco, and the Fostex online, the Dayton seems to fall between them.

Just an idea, er question.  wishful thinking....

I've been reading about the Spawn-Olsen-Nagoka's online in the forums and just wondered.

John

[planet10]

Probably work OK (assumming specs are close to real)

dave

[mightym]

Might be worth a try?

Could always roll the Fostex in if it didn't.

Thanks.

John

[mightym]

Dave, I screwed up.

When I looked up the Lyco info, "Somehow" I got on the wrong page of their site.

when I looked at the parameters, for what I thought was the 401, I was really looking at the parameters for the 301......BIG difference.

Totally unsuitable, ( Dayton RS100-4 ) too high a Qts, methinks.

Too bad.

Back to the drawing board.

John

[mightym]

I'm going to take the plunge, and build my first set of single driver speakers.

I've worked up a BIB with the afore mentioned Dayton.

If there's interest I'll try to document the build.

I've posted the details over on DIYAudio, in the BIB thread.

John

[Taterworks]

Yes, please do! (document the build)

While I ultimately chose the Tang Band W4-1052SD for my own tiny single-driver speakers (currently in the build process), the Dayton RS100 was among the drivers considered. I secretly resented it for posing such a challenge to my pick of the W4-1052SD, because the RS100 is such an attractive-looking driver. One of my design goals was to avoid a cone made from dry fibers, as I wanted to avoid 'cone cry', and I was a little leery of metal cone effects as well, so the poly-cone Tang Band driver got the nod. I'll be pairing it with an eight-element contouring network which will be switch-defeatable.

I look forward to hearing your impressions of the RS100 driven with a modestly-powered solid-state amp.