[Wayner]

Thanks Dave,

I've been tempted to do some mods at the suggestion of others here at AC, but I really want to keep this table as original as possible. I'd like to find a 298 like Doug s. and put a RB300 or Audioquest PT-9 arm on it. Those older empire tables must sound great as there is zero wow and flutter from the platter. I had a 298 in my hands for awhile, but sold it to my friends kid.

I also have 3 AR-XA tables that I could work with and I have been eyeing up the one oldest one (slightly weak motor) and do some weird things with that as the bearing assembly is removable on that particular table. All of this sounds fun, but I have to advise someone starting out to get a Technics SL-1200 or 1210. You just can't go wrong and if you decide that vinyl isn't right for you, someone will surely buy your table from you.

Wayner

[doug s.]

wayne, i agree that your 598 is a thing of beauty - i always thought these were gorgeous when i first laid eyes on my step-brother's 598 back in 1971.

keep your eyes peeled on ebay; empires of all stripes - suspended and unsuspended, show up there.  sometimes they go cheap, sometimes not so cheap...

presently there's a rare 498 f/s.  note that this deck has a base that looks like the other older empire's bases, but it is dimensionally different, and the older bases won't fit the suspended empires,  the 498 will fit on the modern 598/698 bases; that's what i have for my 498...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150306644703


doug s.

[rklein]

I found this Empire 598 on Craigslist a couple of months ago.  Paid $200 for it.  As you can see from the pics it is in fantastic condition.  One of the pics shows a close up of the original Empire 40 cartridge  that came with the TT.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1535

Thanks Doug S. and Wayner for the recommendation

rklein

[David Ellis]

I found this Empire 598 on Craigslist a couple of months ago.  Paid $200 for it. 

.  Wow! 

I sincerely hope you felt bad about paying $200 for it.  Did you offer the guy more $$?

Dave

[Wayner]

If anyone is wondering why some of us are gaga over Empire turntables, besides their build quality, is the fact that they come with a 500 HP German motor that could be used as a chairlift motor at a ski resort. They run fairly quiet and I believe they will outlast their owners. It is a synchronous motor with a starting capacitor (the large cylinderical object clamped to the underside of the plinth) and can run for hours and hours, never to fatigue.

Replacement belts are a bit spendy and watch out for bargin ones as they are not up to spec. being too tight and having varing thickness. Aside from that and a few minor things to keep an eye on, they can be a fun turntable to aquire and play.

As a side note, the replacement lamps in the arm lock are still avalible. Don't give some guy on ebay $10 for them.

Wayner 

[doug s.]

...If anyone is wondering why some of us are gaga over Empire turntables, besides their build quality, is the fact that they come with a 500 HP German motor that could be used as a chairlift motor at a ski resort....

ya, these are killer motors.  i replaced the 351 cleveland in my pantera w/one!      

doug s.

[rajacat]

wayne, i agree that your 598 is a thing of beauty - i always thought these were gorgeous when i first laid eyes on my step-brother's 598 back in 1971.

keep your eyes peeled on ebay; empires of all stripes - suspended and unsuspended, show up there.  sometimes they go cheap, sometimes not so cheap...

presently there's a rare 498 f/s.  note that this deck has a base that looks like the other older empire's bases, but it is dimensionally different, and the older bases won't fit the suspended empires,  the 498 will fit on the modern 598/698 bases; that's what i have for my 498...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150306644703



-Roy

doug s.

Well that Empire fetched $192.50 on ebay. I almost pulled the trigger but realized that it could be a larger project than I want at this time. For starters I figured that I'd want to install a new arm such as RB300 and that would be ~$300 + a nice cartridge. Perhaps it's better to wait for an available unit that already has most of the upgrades for $500 -$700.

[doug s.]

rajacat, $200 on ebay is a great price for an empire, imo.  but, if you are wanting to replace the arm, as i mentioned before, it will be simpler to get an older empire w/o suspension.  if you are wanting a suspended empire, you shoulda sprung for this one, as its platter is supposedly better...  but, the seller did say it ran a little fast - i wonder wazzup w/that... 

doug s.

[rajacat]

Yeah, I was a bit concerned with the fast platter too. Would a  $300 speed control device then be required?
Possible problems with the motor?
-Roy

[Wayner]

Well, it's a synchronized motor and I wonder how the seller determined it ran fast. The speed is adjustable by a thumb nut adjustment (adding or deleting tension on the belt), so one can only wonder about that.

Oh well. There are always 208/298s out there, like Doug has and that deck is a great platform for DIYers. Nice flat plinth to add your favorite arm too and not much else to go wrong except belt. Motor should last forever and if starter capacitor should fail (unlikely) that can be replaced with same MFD/voltage rating.

After seeing Doug's DIY, I'm convinced that is the deck to tinker with. Nice machine, Doug. Rajacat, I can tell you got the itch, man! Go for it!

Wayner

[doug s.]

Yeah, I was a bit concerned with the fast platter too. Would a  $300 speed control device then be required?
Possible problems with the motor?
-Roy

i honestly don't know.  could be a simple fix w/a cap or resistor, or mebbe something else.  hard to imagine it's a problem w/the motor itself - these are about as good as it gets, imo...

doug s.

[doug s.]

Well, it's a synchronized motor and I wonder how the seller determined it ran fast. The speed is adjustable by a thumb nut adjustment (adding or deleting tension on the belt), so one can only wonder about that.

Oh well. There are always 208/298s out there, like Doug has and that deck is a great platform for DIYers. Nice flat plinth to add your favorite arm too and not much else to go wrong except belt. Motor should last forever and if starter capacitor should fail (unlikely) that can be replaced with same MFD/voltage rating.

After seeing Doug's DIY, I'm convinced that is the deck to tinker with. Nice machine, Doug. Rajacat, I can tell you got the itch, man! Go for it!

Wayner

wayne, that modded 208 isn't mine - i wish it were!  it's yust a link to someone who did his up nice.     i sold my 208, & bought a 498, cuz i wanted the rare heavy platter iteration w/the suspension.  i don't have it up and running - i need to hog out the hole in the subchassis to accept my origin-live-modded rb250, as its diameter for the mounting shaft is a bit larger.  i recently stumbled across a grace 727 arm i have, that was originally mounted on my oracle when i bought it - i think this one will mount directly, w/no mods; its mounting shaft diameter is smaller.  i may give it a go...

re: the 498 that yust sold, that was running fast, it's easy to check speed w/a strobe and disc; i assume that's what the seller did...  i was unaware that playing w/the belt tension would actually change the speed of these, i thought it was yust to adjust for belt stretching...

doug s.

[Wayner]

I can get a plus or minus out of mine by adjusting the knurled nut. It's not a big change, but it is a change nonetheless. I do think they put the feature there to accommodate belt stretching, that is a good call.

Wayner

[doug s.]

I can get a plus or minus out of mine by adjusting the knurled nut. It's not a big change, but it is a change nonetheless. I do think they put the feature there to accommodate belt stretching, that is a good call.

Wayner

it's good to know, anyways.  does tightening the tension make it faster or slower?

doug s.

[rajacat]

Oh well....maybe it was a good deal after all. I didn't have that much time to think about it. I suppose I could have run it with the stock arm and just put my $'s into a great cart. No add-on speed controller necessary. I do like to work with wood so I'd definitely would have gotten rid of the particle board base and built a massive one out of solid hardwood. I feel that a suspended table is optional because you can always create a suspended platform or an extremely well damped platform.

If I decide to upgrade my turntable, I want something that will sound a lot better than my Beogram Rx. Presently my digital front end is sounding very good so I want my analog setup to be obviously better. I have had a taste of the expanded soundstage of a TT but overall the modded SB is still better but I'm sure that with a better TT and phonostage will be the cat's meow. aa

-Roy

[rajacat]

I almost made an offer on this interesting table but it was snatched up fast.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1230741679&/Voyd-Turntable-Collectors-item

-Roy

[Wayner]

If I recall, tightening up the nut tips the motor toward the platter, making it go slower and visa versa.

Wayner

[doug s.]

afaik, the empire's base is wood, not particle board.  but you can certainly make a more solid one, like the one on the website i linked prior.

it seems someone did make a speed controller for the papst motor, but i suspect it would be "not cheap"... 

http://www.clarisonus.com/blog/?cat=7

there was a rewiew of it on audio asylum...

http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/Turntables/Mark%20Kelly%20Motor%20Controller/Papst%203-Phase%20Controller/vinyl/561449.html

doug s.

[doug s.]

I almost made an offer on this interesting table but it was snatched up fast.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1230741679&/Voyd-Turntable-Collectors-item

-Roy

yup, i saw that, looks sweet.  seems to be a 3-motor iteration of the wery respectable systemdek-ll.  (the systemdek is another great choice for the money, imo.  but, i'd still go w/the empire over the systemdek.)

doug s.

[rajacat]

Actually the Empire 598 discussed earlier in this thread looks to be particle board. Nice solid looking metal parts nevertheless.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1535&pos=0