[NealH]

Hantra, your review was very well done and as honest as just about any other review that I have read.   I thought it to be very informative and we look forward to seeing more.  

I don't know why there always has to be some disgruntled cowpoke who reads far too much into words so as to concoct some disillusional conspiracy.   Seems like people would just read these reviews for pleasure, in exactly the manner the authors intended them to be read.

[Mad DOg]

Hantra getting flAck! for his dAck! review...

Sorry B...couldn't resist...just had to...

[8thnerve]

I will say that I still love the Ack! Dack.  To be fair, Hantra's Tube DAC has had countless more hours of break in than my Ack! Dack.  The Ack! Dack has about 150 hours total, maybe 20 hours on the new Auricaps and WBT connectors, and less than 5 hours on the BNC connector and the new digital input cable.

No one can say if it would be better than the Nixon DAC when broken in at the same level.  But that was the equipment we had.  I agree that the Nixon DAC had a very natural quality and clean, unexagerated sound.  I also think the the Ack dack was more dynamic, less anemic, and I enjoy it more on MOST of the tracks we listened to.  The Ayre as a transport is so dynamic that it compensated for the Nixon's even keeled levels, resulting in a much more dynamic sound.  That is when I liked it the most.  But I would never use it that way, as I much prefer the Ayre's DAC to either of the DACs in question.  So as it would be used, with an inexpensive transport, I prefer the Ack! by a VERY slight margin for most music I listen to.

The Sonicaps would be an altogether different experience.

All this being said, both DACs are THE BEST VALUE in digital I have ever seen.  With a decent sub $200 transport, they can give you much of what the Ayre and Naim give you for a fraction of the cost.  Even so, I would be willing to bet that if anyone lived with the Ayre or the Naim for even a week, they would not want to go back to either of these DACs.  Not because they are not incredible, but because I think the Ayre and Naim are some of the best digital out there period, and once you have spent time getting used to all of that extension and dynamic power, you just can't be satisfied with less.

My list for Digital based on this listening session would be:

1 - Naim CD5 w/ Flatcap2
2 - Ayre CX-7
3 - Ack! Dack and Nixon DAC - (too close with too many variables to pick a favorite, either one you get is again, one of the best values out there)  Thanks to both Scott and Chris for such excellent products.

Kris (Eighth Nerve) will pick the Ayre CX-7 above all of them by a wide margin.  I understand why, but I still value the seduction of the Naim over the perfection of the Ayre.  Different strokes....

[toxteth ogrady]

If you want to talk about "off-handed" remarks, you ought to check out some of Chris and friends posts about Scott on the Ass-ylum.

I wasn't aware that there was any bad blood and it would certainly be a shame if that's the case. I would appreciate it if you could provide a link on AA pointing to some of these "off-hand" remarks you said Chris Own and friends have made about Scott Nixon. Inquiring disillusional cowpokes want to know

[audiojerry]

Just to keep everything above board, does 8th Nerve have any connection or planning any connection with Ayre or Naim product line?

[mcrespo71]

Nice review, Hantra.  Very informative.  I reviewed the dACK and Tube Dac + in my system and my results were opposite of Hantra's.  Just goes to show that different transports, system synergies, and listening biases always work into the equation.  Sorry you are getting such flack over your comments about the dACK, but then again, you were the one who took me to town regarding my comparison of these two dacs, so I guess everything is coming full circle.

[Sa-dono]

Hi,

I'm curious about how different the Ack! sounded in this system/reviews compared to the rave reviews on audioasylum.com. The descriptions on the asylum are nowhere near "twisted and unnatural" or "dirty"

Any thoughts on why your results were so different??

I'm not questioning what you heard, or trying to start a pissfest... I'm just curious why your results were so different from those of other Ack! listeners. Clearly the other DACs sounded a league ahead of the Ack! at your listening test while other listeners feel the Ack! is in a league of its own.

Could this be a vinyl lovers like the Ack! sound while those more accusomed to digital don't??

I'm curious because I've been considering buying an Ack!...

Any ideas??

Thanks

Well based on Hantra's logic, there must have been some other "culprit" responsible for what he heard...and he should be looking at the review system. To understand his logic, look at one of his recent posts:

I totally believe in synergy as well. . .

I also can think of probably at least 30+ people that I have read posts by who have had the polar opposite experience with the (insert item: DAC in this case).

And those of us who post constantly on these crazy forums are a VERY small cross-section of audiophiles.  Of the _______ of (dAck!) that Chris has sold to date, you are the first I have heard of to return it.

That is why I suggest looking elsewhere to find something that may be causing what you experience. .

L8r,

b

[8thnerve]

Just to keep everything above board, does 8th Nerve have any connection or planning any connection with Ayre or Naim product line?

Yes, I am only commenting to clarify my own opinions.  I sell Ayre and am auditioning Naim and it is VERY likely that I will pick that line up.  You can ask any of my customers, many of which are AC members, I only carry gear that I completely believe in and would own personally.  I also recommend gear that I do not carry.

That being said, I am a dealer.  Not that any of you can buy Naim or Ayre gear from me since you aren't in my territory.  And most areas have a local Naim and even an Ayre dealership within driving distance.

I am looking forward to Hantra's comments on part 2.

Nathan

[Hantra]

Thanks for your input Sad-ono .  

A name can say lots about someone.  Even if it's just a moniker. . .

You poor guy. . .  They make drugs for guys like you. . .

It's not even worth the effort anymore writing reviews and trying to give people an idea of what different gear sounds like.

Ohh, and MCR, you're right man.  I think if we had used a "Y" cable on the digital out of the Ayre, things would certainly have been more clear to all of us.      

[Double Ugly]

I'll be the first to vouch for Nathan.

To date I've purchased exactly one item from Nathan, a modded Carver Pro ZR1600.  However, his recommendations have resulted in the purchase of at least three other components from manufacturers he doesn't represent.  He could have sold me similar components from manufacturers he does represent, but he didn't.  He listened to my desires, considered my budget and associated components and recommended buying from someone else.

In fact, I made a purchase just last night for a 4th component that Nathan does sell, but he sent me elsewhere because I could get a better deal.  He even went so far as to research prices on the 'net and gave me the URLs while we spoke on the phone.  That absolutely blew me away.

Nathan is as true-blue as they come IMO, and I trust him implicitly.  

DU

[Mad DOg]

B,

c'mon...no need to start w/ the name calling...

as it says at the top of this forum, "lighten up, it's only audio!"

it's all good...impressions and opinions are exactly that...not everyone will agree with yours or mine or anyone else's...but that's why we share them so that others can sift through our experiences to possibly determine what will work in their systems...

eagerly awaiting part deux...

[Hantra]

Nathan is as true-blue as they come IMO, and I trust him implicitly.

Nathan has never steered me wrong either, and I have made quite a few purchases based on his recommendation. I have not regretted one of them.

Also, he's about as straight up as they come.  I was able to get to know him more this weekend than the last time I was there, and I have no reservation about recommending him, and/or his products.

B

[Mad DOg]

yeah...Nathan is ok in my book as well...

heck, he recommended a $6.00 Home Depot mod for my sony 7000 dvd player that really worked!!!

and when i spoke to him on the phone about it, he didn't try to sell me anything else...all he did was further clarify his step by step instructions from the his post. i even asked him if installing an IEC inlet would be more beneficial so i could try out other PCs and he said the HD method would do the trick...

i'd purchase from nathan in the future...actually, come to think of it, i already have purchased the HDXV from him!  

[Hantra]

B,

as it says at the top of this forum, "lighten up, it's only audio!"

As a matter of fact, I recommended that be put up at the top of the page after reading it the other day.  It's just too bad that the moderators don't even believe in it.

it's all good...impressions and opinions are exactly that...not everyone will agree with yours or mine or anyone else's...but that's why we share them so that others can sift through our experiences to possibly determine what will work in their systems...

I agree totally.  If that's the way it went down, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  It's sad that the slippery slope started so early on in this thread.  But I told one of the other members last night in an IM that the idiots would come out of the woodwork because of the review.

So now I'm a prophet. .  

[toxteth ogrady]

Hantra

I do appreciate the fact you took the time to comment on your comparisons of the different players and dacs. I'm not questioning any other part of your review. It's clear you're very passionate about music and audio and as someone who shares a similar passion I'm always interested in reading reviews, especially if I own the equipment in question and can therefore compare the reviewers results with my own. The only point I am trying to make is that you came to your conclusion about the dAck long before you compared it to the Tubedac and this is clearly evident if you do a search for your past comments on the dAck. Apparently because I don't agree with you I'm an idiot. I suggest that instead of resorting to the tactics of a twelve year old you take a look for yourself and see why someone would come to this conclusion.

And please, I'm still waiting on that "off-handed" remark link. With everything I've read, Chris has been nothing but professional with all of his posts and has never gotten into any pissing matches, even when you were implying his dac was essentially an inferior copy of Scott Nixon's.

[Hantra]

you came to your conclusion about the dAck long before you compared it to the Tubedac and this is clearly evident if you do a search for your past comments on the dAck.

Look man. . . If you go back and read my first response to your first thread, you will clearly see the answer to the same questions you are asking here. . .

As I said, I expected the dAck to be better based on all the reviews.  But I was disappointed, and I am NOT the only one at this event who thought this, AS I ALREADY told you.  

even when you were implying his dac was essentially an inferior copy of Scott Nixon's.

Well, I wasn't too far off.  Even Chris said himself that he used Nixon's boards early on until one of his friends helped him find a "cure" for the DacKit's ills.  It didn't work.  And this is NOT just MY opinion.

As far as a link, I am sure you're a big boy, and do not need a 12 year old to tell you how to use a search engine.

BTW, if anyone that was at the listening session this weekend wants to post part II, let me know and I'll send you the notes.  I can't spend MORE hours writing this up and then have to deal with these idiots.  It ain't worth it to me. .

B

[toxteth ogrady]

I stand corrected. You aren't just passionate, you're passionately juvenile.

Blahblahblah. . . I knew this would come up

Thanks for your input Sad-ono.A name can say lots about someone. Even if it's just a moniker. . . You poor guy. . . They make drugs for guys like you. . .

But I told one of the other members last night in an IM that the idiots would come out of the woodwork because of the review.

Toxic O'lamer wrote:

I can't spend MORE hours writing this up and then have to deal with these idiots. It ain't worth it to me. .

Your posts in this thread alone speak volumes. Please keep talking.

[cjr888]

Waiting for someone to suggest that Hantra is actually Scott Nixon.

Anyways -- enjoyed the commentary greatly, especially on two products(and lines) that don't get much mention here, Naim, and Ayre.  I know there's been past mention of Ayre amplifiers, but I've always been curious about the Naim stuff (and the other Ayre products), given the descriptions have common traits, yet I've never had the opportunity to hear the stuff myself.  I've heard some of the Ayre stuff at a local dealer, and liked it, but not when I was doing any buying, so me providing descriptions and comparisons mean little.

The Naim stuff is interesting -- you hear a lot of raves and a lot of anti-Naim-but-never-heard-disbelief, but its always good to hear 'outside' opinions.

[Hantra]

Waiting for someone to suggest that Hantra is actually Scott Nixon.

That's a good one man. .  I think the difference is that Scott doesn't even try to get on here and share his opinion, and I waste my time doing that so that I may be called "juvenille" for defending myself against slanderous attacks.

BTW, thanks for that Naim link.  That's pretty interesting stuff. . .

B

[tybee]

I want to echo what Hantra and others have said about Nathan and Kris at the Eighth Nerve.  I would not hesitate in recommending the equipment and services they can provide to satisfy your audio or video needs.

I continue to be drawn to the Eighth Nerve, because they have helped me find audio equipment that provide value for my dollar.  As an attendee of last weekend's gathering, I bring my Cheapskate point of view. No, I don't own or plug Musical Fidelity.

I came to this gathering to compare the Scott Nixon tubedac and the dAck head to head.  Both dacs are well within my cheapskate budget.  For my musical tastes, I really preferred the S/N tube dac over the dAck.  Hantra's review gave an accurate picture of what we heard.  To be fair, I will reaudition Nathan's dAck with my new Tube Dac when both units have some time to log additional break in hours.

I know Hantra will be providing some additional surprises from this past weekend.   He has been active in participating in many "Shoot outs" this past year.  While you might disagree with his opinion, he does make a valid attempt to post what he heard or what the group heard.  I will continue to encourage him to participate and share his passion for finding good music and music reproduction equipment. These Shootouts provide many of us a better opportunity to hear and really compare all the great equipment discussed on this forum as well as the opportunity to meet others who enjoy our hobby.  I found this past weekend's experience at the Nashville Gathering a great learning experience.  I plan to do it again.  I would especially like to encourage all of you to get involved in sponsoring and participating in Shootouts, and share your experience so we can all learn.