[stvnharr]

For those who missed it, Audio Federation does the best job of showing the Show, with pics of every room.

Here's the link:http://www.audiofederation.com/hifiing/2008/RMAF2008/report/index.htm

Apparently attendance at the Show was up 5%, and I think they got the official registration numbers.  Anyway, if you have some time, a fast internet connection, and didn't make the Show, you can at least see it in pictures.

[Rom]

nice post  Steve

Cheers
Rom

[AKSA]

I agree Rom,

Steve, my thanks, great link!

Cheers,

Hugh

[stvnharr]

I agree Rom,

Steve, my thanks, great link!

Cheers,

Hugh

Hugh,
If you want to relive memories of last year's show, just go to the audiofederation website and click the link for last year's show.  You can see your room again.

Steve

[stvnharr]

Some good points were raised last week by Macrojack and Darren, and I'd like to further address them.

Macrojack is correct in mentioning that new tweaks and things constantly come out, all praised to glory be. It's quite easy to get cynical about most everything, especially after trying a few of these "instant guides to audio nirvana", only to find they seem to make no difference. After a few times of that, one usually just ignores these things, and certainly one does not post the praiser/poster.

When I first heard speakers set with Master Set at RMAF 2007, it was the second time in the room before I paid much attention, and really it was the third time to listen that I really began paying attention, and wanted to learn more.  And when I commenced praising and raving about this, I got a lot of deaf ears.  I did get Hugh down to the room for a short listen. He was pretty stunned by what he had heard.  I'm glad he remembers this short listen.

Darren's post reflects what I might call advanced conventional speaker set up.  This involves room treatments, software programs that do various things to help tweak something, and spending a lot of money in an attempt to "find it".  Conventional thought has the speakers measured out evenly into the room, preferably away from sidewalls as much as possible, and moved together or apart slightly to get a good centered mono image. Then one attempts to correct all the imbalances, reflections, and abnormalities that result from this.  Generally one tries to get something good and a sweet spot of listening nirvana.

Master Set does not consider any of that.  It is only concerned with equalizing the sound pressure between the two speakers.  The first speaker is somewhat arbitrarily placed in the room, with the caveat that this is where the bass can be "tuned". The other speaker is then adjusted to this first speaker until the sound pressure is equal.  This then creates an evenly balanced stereo image, and pretty much makes the two speakers into a single sound source.  And like any stationary sound source, the sound stays in the same place when you, the listener, move.  In any conventional setup, the sound will not only move around with you as you move, but it will change in character.


While diy Master Set may sound like the closest thing to a free lunch, and everyone knows about those, you do have to have the cd.  Maybe when the dvd comes out, people will feel better spending more money on this.

[AKSA]

Steve,

Many thanks, much appreciated.  This will be an eye opener for Audiocircle members, no question.....

Ciao,

Hugh

[macrojack]

Guys - This Master Set exercise is First Aid. If you have an inherently handicapped speaker system, you may well benefit from this busy-ness.

You will notice that two of the most universally praised and appreciated rooms at RMAF were the Classic Audio Reproductions and Oswald's Mill rooms. The latter was utterly without room treatment and was in a very disadvantageous situation in terms of room dimensions. Still they stood out for many visitors as one of the best sounding presentations of the show. I would maintain that this was true because they, and CAR, are both very well executed horn designs.

High end audio cognescenti are discovering that the future lies in history. The Japanese figured this out twenty years ago and some of us are catching on now. Ask Ralph Karsten. He gets it. Small tube amps and high-efficiency speakers bring the best results and don't require arcane compensation exercises.

[andyr]

Small tube amps and high-efficiency speakers bring the best results and don't require arcane compensation exercises.

So it makes no difference (to the sound of these hi-eff speakers at your listening chair) if you shove them in the corners or bring them out into the middle of the room? 

I think not! 

Regards,

Andy

[stvnharr]

Guys - This Master Set exercise is First Aid. If you have an inherently handicapped speaker system, you may well benefit from this busy-ness.

You will notice that two of the most universally praised and appreciated rooms at RMAF were the Classic Audio Reproductions and Oswald's Mill rooms. The latter was utterly without room treatment and was in a very disadvantageous situation in terms of room dimensions. Still they stood out for many visitors as one of the best sounding presentations of the show. I would maintain that this was true because they, and CAR, are both very well executed horn designs.

High end audio cognescenti are discovering that the future lies in history. The Japanese figured this out twenty years ago and some of us are catching on now. Ask Ralph Karsten. He gets it. Small tube amps and high-efficiency speakers bring the best results and don't require arcane compensation exercises.

Did you attend RMAF this year?  You live in western Colorado, not that far away.

The CAR room was in one of the large exhibit rooms on the ground floor.  Oswald's Mill was in one of the hotel rooms, and could have benefited from a larger room if they could have afforded one.  A lot of rooms got a lot of praise.  You get a bit of a skewed idea of the show by just reading after show reports and posts.  Most attendees don't post about it, and this year it seemed that after show postings were quite a bit less than in past years.

BTW, what makes you such an expert on Master Set, something you know NOTHING about?  And why can't you just leave it alone?  It's not exactly taking the audio industry by storm.  It's just a way to set up speakers in a room, and can work well when implemented as designed. You just seemed so threatened by this. Why?  I just don't get it.

There's plenty of room in audio for most everything, including SET's and big horns, and RMAF is a great place to see it all.

Cheer's,
Steve

[2gumby2]

Rod from Soundings saved me about $2K in acoustic treatments when I met him at RMAF last year. I came to RMAF last year shopping for acoustical treatments believing that is what I needed since I wasn't really happy with my new speakers. Fortunately, I brought along photos of my speaker set up and listening room and showed them to Rod. He gave me a brief instruction on Master Set and recommended I first try different speaker positioning and think about acoustical treatments later. I took his advice and the difference was HUGE! I didn't buy any acoustical treatments and I'm happy with the sound I'm getting. That's not to say that acoustical treatments might not be of value, but I'm satisfied enough that I'm no longer considering that route. A good Master Set is not simple or easy, but it is effective when implemented properly. Rod is a real professional and I'm sure he could get a lot more out of my system than I did, but even the basics he taught me made a large improvement.

[stvnharr]

Rod from Soundings saved me about $2K in acoustic treatments when I met him at RMAF last year. I came to RMAF last year shopping for acoustical treatments believing that is what I needed since I wasn't really happy with my new speakers. Fortunately, I brought along photos of my speaker set up and listening room and showed them to Rod. He gave me a brief instruction on Master Set and recommended I first try different speaker positioning and think about acoustical treatments later. I took his advice and the difference was HUGE! I didn't buy any acoustical treatments and I'm happy with the sound I'm getting. That's not to say that acoustical treatments might not be of value, but I'm satisfied enough that I'm no longer considering that route. A good Master Set is not simple or easy, but it is effective when implemented properly. Rod is a real professional and I'm sure he could get a lot more out of my system than I did, but even the basics he taught me made a large improvement.

I think I heard about you.  You came to the show again this year didn't you?  The comments about you got a bit of notice in the room at the time.

[AKSA]

Steve,

I hope the comments about 2gumby2 were all positive!!

Hugh

[2gumby2]

I think I heard about you.  You came to the show again this year didn't you?  The comments about you got a bit of notice in the room at the time.
[/quote]

Yes, I attended again this year and it seems you may have been in the room when I was discussing the success I had using Rod's recommendations. I'm not sure what was said after I left the room, but I can tell you Rod's advice improved the enjoyment of my system and saved me a lot of money.

[stvnharr]

Yes, I attended again this year and it seems you may have been in the room when I was discussing the success I had using Rod's recommendations. I'm not sure what was said after I left the room, but I can tell you Rod's advice improved the enjoyment of my system and saved me a lot of money.

No, I was not in the room when you came in.
However, Rod did mention a guy who came to the show from Japan a year or two ago to buy several thousands of dollars in room treatments.  But after listening to the Master Set setup, got a few tips on how to do it, and went home.  Then Rod mentioned that you had come in to the room earlier that day with many many Thank You's for savings of many many thousands of dollars, simply by moving your speakers.

When you look at Rod's rooms at the show, and in the store, you can easily see how much room treatment is used.

[2gumby2]

I live about 40 kilometers south of Hiroshima. I doubt I'll make it to RMAF next year though due to the cost of travel these days. Disappointing since my wife and I enjoy RMAF so much. I'm fortunate to have a wife that enjoys music as much as I do and she doesn't complain when I buy or build equipment, even very large subwoofers. I just put on some Corvus Corax and she dances around the room like it's a Pagan festival.

I don't recall seeing any room treatments in Rod's rooms.

[stvnharr]

I live about 40 kilometers south of Hiroshima. I doubt I'll make it to RMAF next year though due to the cost of travel these days. Disappointing since my wife and I enjoy RMAF so much. I'm fortunate to have a wife that enjoys music as much as I do and she doesn't complain when I buy or build equipment, even very large subwoofers. I just put on some Corvus Corax and she dances around the room like it's a Pagan festival.

I don't recall seeing any room treatments in Rod's rooms.

At the show there was a small absorber on the rear wall just behind the middle seat as the seating rows were close to the back wall, otherwise there was nothing.