[I.Greyhound Fan]

Well I finally decided on a DAC.  I purchased the Ultra DAC from Frank after auditioning my equipment in Franks studio.  I also purchased a new Parasound Halo A21 amp which I also auditioned in Franks home.
It was a tough decision.  Initally I bought his new T-8 all tube DAC which when paired with the A21 in his home sounded fairly close to his power amp.  But when I took the T-8 home, it sounded too laid back and the treble was slightly rolled off.  It sounded great on acoustical and vocal music, but rock and blues did not seem to have as much energy. I then borrowed his insight preamp and did not hear much difference.  I think the reason why is because of different room acoustics and the fact that I'm using Magnepan QR1.6's vs his Salk HTR3's.  The Salks have much lower freq. response and sound totally different then the Maggies. So I returned the T-8 and preamp and bought the Ultra DAC.

My initial impressions of the Ultra DAC in my system are that it is does give some slight improvement in transparency, sound stage and slightly tighter bass but its not dramatic like it was in Franks studio.  I spent 3 hours listening to all types of music last night switching back and forth between my 840c and the DAC and it was pretty close in sound.  On some music I could not tell the difference. Its really odd because at Franks Studio the 840c sounded terrible especially when run through my Adcom AVR.  The Parasound really made the 840c sound better.

So here's my dilemma, do I let the Ultra DAC break in some more, do I sell the 840c and buy an Insight or Ultra Preamp or do I return the Ultra DAC?  I would like to think that after a few more days of listening that the DAC would improve the sound some more.  Or do bug Frank one more time and try his Ultra Hybrid preamp.  In the end, I probably should have bought the 550 amp instead of the parasound and I probably would have gotten the sound I was looking for.

I have this to say about Franks equipment.  It has a very unique natural and pleasing sound and if I was building a system from the ground up I would buy all his equipment with out question.

Thank you Frank for having the patience to put up with me and lending me your valued time and opinion.

Larry

[Mariusz]

If you like his gear ....stick to it and try to work with the guy to recreate the sound that you seek. Maybe he will be willing to loan you his gear so you can have a better picture if it is at least possible to get where you want to go.
 Best of luck

Mariusz

[pardales]

If you like his gear ....stick to it and try to work with the guy to recreate the sound that you seek. Maybe he will be willing to loan you his gear so you can have a better picture if it is at least possible to get where you want to go.
 Best of luck

Mariusz

I agree. Different rooms and speakers can make a world of difference. Be patient with your comparisons and I'm sure Frank will be willing to work with you to achieve the sound you desire.

[nicksgem10s]

So much of this is system synergy. 

I have heard and owned AVA & Salk HT3 speaker in the past and there is a serious synergy with their products.  I have been to Jim's home and had the pleasure to listen to his system which features his HT3 speakers and Frank's electronics.

Both of these manufacturers feature excellent products and offer incredible value.  Two of the incredibly great people and companies in audio.

I have really enjoyed listening to the AVA gear at Jim's and at a couple of audio shows AK Fest '07 & '08.

Now you just need a pair of HT3 to go with the AVA gear.   

You can always go at it one piece at a time and upgrade as your budget allows.

I think you are on the right track. 

-Nick

[satfrat]

It's too bad you couldn't haul your Maggies over to Franks so you could hear his gear on your speakers. That could possibly save time & energy with all the intermingling of components back and forth,,,,,? Just a thought.


Cheers,
Robin

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I think the Maggies are a little more forgiving then the Salks.  You would think it would be the other way around.  However, all this auditioning was a learning experience in system matching.  I'm somewhat disappointed that I'm not hearing the dramatic benefits of the Ultra DAC in my home.  Any benefit in sound quality is minimal.

But I have to say this, the Parasound has made a huge difference in sound compared to the Adcom.  And I'm sure the 550 amp would have been even better.  The dynamics, sound stage, transparency and musicality are all improved across the board.

[Loftprojection]

One thing you don't talk about here is the transport and cables, this might be part of your problem.  When you say you compared the 840c versus using the Ultra DAC, is it using the 840C as the transport?  And when you audition it at the studio, is it using the same transport and cable?

I went through a similar dilemma a few years ago when I had an Arcam CD23T.  When I was using the Arcam as the transport feeding my new DAC, I didn't get as much differences as when I got myself a modded SB2 as a transport.

Just a thought.

[martyo]

Knowing Frank, it was a basic transport, such as a Phillips, Radio Shack IC's and a basic(inexpensive) digital coax cable. Almost forgot, and zipcord for the speakers.

[PSP]

I have not heard either the 840c nor the UltraDac, and I know Frank only by his (extremely fine) reputation.

I'm writing to suggest that you might back off on the quick analysis stuff; instead, sit down and spend some time listening to the music.  Listen to the UltaDac every night for 2-3 weeks and then switch back to the 840c.  IME, if there is a significant difference it will be more obvious when you listen over a long timescale to get really familiar with the first component, and then switch back to the second component.

I could tell a long story here, but the punch line is that I spent weeks in feverish A/B testing, switching back and forth between an inboard and an outboard DAC and concluded that they were pretty close. Then I listened to the outboard DAC for a month, and when I switched back to the onboard DAC its inferiority was quite obvious. 

Good luck,
Peter

[I.Greyhound Fan]

At Franks we used the 840c as both a transport for the DAC and as an analog connection so that we could AB the two.  He used $10 IC's and speaker wire.  However, the first time we listened to my 840c on his system, I did bring my own IC's.  In my home I'm using the same set up except for high quality IC's.  

I'm not in any hurry to return the DAC.  I'm going to give it 3 weeks.  I usually listen to music at least 2hr's a day and on days off 3-5hrs.

Thanks for the insights!

[MaxCast]

See if he'll let you borrow his HT-3's   aa

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I'm a Maggie fan forever.  I do like a few other speakers like Thiels.  However, the live sound and huge soung stage of the maggies is captivating.  The Salks were very nice though and I could be hapy with them.  I'd love to have a pair of Quad's or Apogee's though.