Has anyone tried the new parts express FRers

DanTheMan · « **on:** 11 Sep 2008, 12:13 am »

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-358

I just bought a pair of them and they're mounted in their shipping boxes and sounding pretty darn good. No real low-end to speak of, but they are clean everywhere else. The specs seem to lend themselves to OB. Any recommendations on how to get the most of these?

Thanks,

Dan

Ed Schilling · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Sep 2008, 01:02 pm »

Dan,
Outputs will be "sedate" in any cabinet. They may sound very good, please let us know.
Ed

doug s. · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Sep 2008, 03:56 pm »

i'd like to hear about a line array built w/these - 16, 18, or 20 drivers per side...

doug s.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Sep 2008, 06:43 pm »

So far they are sedate

but they sound very clean and extended on the top end! The depth of soundfield is erie in their cardboard tunnel on my desk and presents quite an illusion of being in the middle of what's coming through them. My guess is that I'm going to IB them, cross them over kinda high(approx 120Hz 12db/oct preamp crossover) then add a small sub underneath with the same x-over frequency. It might be fun to put them in a large, situationally removable waveguide for more volume when desired. For my purpose the sub is not necessary, but a luxury I want to enjoy.

I'd definitely recommend this driver for a personal audio system. Farfield they loose all bass, but that's expected. I know that have a lot of potential that I haven't tapped yet.

Does anyone have any other ideas or want to comment about the negative aspects of my current ideas?

Thanks again,

Dan

dweekie · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Sep 2008, 07:33 pm »

There was a diyaudio thread about this. Is that where you got your inspiration? Otherwise, it's a good thread to look up. Or maybe that was you posting (Kensai)....

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122616&highlight=

DanTheMan · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Sep 2008, 08:39 pm »

Nope, not Kensai. Thanks for the link Dweekie. I actually just posted my first post on another thread about these drivers over on DIY Audio.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 07:05 pm »

Since implementing these drivers into the system I've noticed the bass sounds muddy, distorted, and utterly lacks depth and attack. I expected this upon purchase, so no surprise. How many 3" drivers have you heard that do bass well? Last night I placed some 100uf caps in series just to see what would happen. This is the best thing I have tried in these drivers so far. Yes there is slightly less bass now, but the difference at my normal listening position is Nil. The thing that strikes me is how great these driver sound above 200Hz. So I've now got my Augie running roughly under 200Hz and these filling in on top of that and it's an exciting sound. There is still a bit of trouble in the crossover region, but I'll work that out in time. So far though, I wouldn't say these are the best drivers on earth or anything crazy, but the MR right on up through the treble is definitely outstanding! Very detailed, smooth and natural and even pretty dynamic running of my 15watt SS amp and my Sansa with downloaded WAV files. Never etched or irritating. Too bad they need such a high crossover point and have such a low output as to require a larger amp, but all drivers have their limitations. So far though I'd say their my favorite small driver and I've heard a number of them even though these are still in cardboard boxes. While in Akihabara I heard every Fostex made in about 2 dozen different enclosures run off of tubes and SS, analog and digital. I listened to many TBs in Akiba, many that I've never seen here in the States (my favorite had a wooden, door knob looking phase plug) in many different enclosure/amplification schemes from digital and analog sources. There are a lot of good, small FRers out there, but these have the cleanest and most open sound of the ones I've heard with nothing standing out as bad other than the bass. Some of the others had much better bass than these, but they were in BLHs. I wish they had the efficiency and the ability to be put in BLHs like the Fostex drivers, but you can't have everything. for a small sealed/OB set-up, these would be aweful tough to beat. I can't wait to go further down the design road with these things...............

DanTheMan · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Nov 2008, 08:52 am »

So I'm finally getting around to putting these in real boxes--infinite baffles(depending on your definition). Suffice to say boxes that nearly Match the Vas. I made some small sound deflecting panels to place inside the boxes. Link to photos here:
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=1
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0
I want to make these boxes sound as good as possible(obviously). So whats my best strategy to place these panels? They are in three different depths with regards to the ribs. Should I place the smallest next to the driver, the largest next to the driver, or randomly placed? I have enough the cover the entire interiors.

Should I attach them with something rigid or something soft to absorb vibration?

And if anyone cares to comment on their prior experiences with aperiodic enclosures, stuffing(fiberglass, wool, acousta stuff, etc...), and other lining materials such as deflex, foam(s), dynamat(and similar products) and how to effectively place them.

My thoughts so far go like this: I may couple the panels I built to the walls of the enclosure with some silicone II and duct seal, or perhaps just some Green Glue. Then place a layer of dynamat-like material on top of the panels toward the center of the box and then perhaps some open cell foam, then some loose box stuffing like r-19 thinned a bit. I know I'm going to do a lot of experimenting before I permanently install anything.

Thanks for your help!

Dan

BPT · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Nov 2008, 02:16 pm »

I currently have 3 RS-100S on each side OB (4.5" baffle) and crossed over at 150Hz - they sound quite good--very much like the BG RD75 but just a tad slower. I'd like to be able to cross these over at 100Hz, so will be building a 6' OB line source (17-18 drivers) when the new truncated frames are available (30-90 days). Nice driver for the money.
Chris

DanTheMan · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Dec 2008, 01:05 am »

I finally got around to making my own baffles for these. Check them out.
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=4

http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=3

What do you think? They are made of plastic--PVC

mightym · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Dec 2008, 11:54 am »

DanTheMan,

Are you using these in OB? Sorry, I saw the posts, IB right? isn't that baffle a bit small to achieve even 200 Hz performance w/o severe roll-off of the bass? Those are cool looking baffles, (PVC?) the pictures make them look like wood to me...

Are they the 8 Ohm version?

I am getting ready to apply a straight BLH (84" tall) to a pair of the 4 Ohm iteration of this driver. I don't have room to put them out in the room, these are designed to be placed against the wall (actually corner mounted). Planning to XO to a pair of subs, also designed for out of the way placement. I'm hoping to crossover closer to Fs, as my subs are small Tapped Horns that really only cover the bottom 2, to 2 and 1/2, octaves. I'm hoping the lower Qt of the 4 Ohm version also means a tighter bottom end.

Back to lurking.
John

DanTheMan · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 04:22 am »

Yea, these will be IB, that's just the baffle. I was hoping to make them look like wood. The material has pigment that you can arrange to make it look like whatever you want if you are savvy. The FRers are the eight Ohm version. I got them to mate easier with my amp and the lower apparent distortion figures through the mid band. I don't plan on using the bass. These will have a line level crossover on them maybe as high as 400Hz. Did you see the Deflex panels I made for the box interior?

Thanks John,

Dan

mightym · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 11:50 am »

I missed the deflex panels, I'm impressed with the Faux graining. what are you going to put on top, polyurethane? How big a box? w/ a Vas of .06 cu. ft. you will save lots of money on that IB enclosure.

Did you try those 8 Ohm jobs in an OB? Just curious, the way they spec looked suitable to me for OB application.

I wish I had the space to move the speakers out from the walls, I'd like to experiment with an Eminence 15Alpha, and small fullranger Ala MJK's project, w/ passive XO.

I hope to have something to post on my 4 Ohm version project, on the other thread soon after Xmas.

John

DanTheMan · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Dec 2008, 06:43 pm »

I tried them out OB, but they really don't work well with it in a small baffle. You'd have to build a large baffle and then have a baffle step(even though they may need this anyway). These will be placed very near if not against the wall d/t my small room. If that's the case, no baffle step should be necessary.

Thanks for the compliment! I have many more tricks up my sleeve for future versions. This isn't the final destination, but I love the direction. This material has tremendous potential.

My design is similar to the MJK in sense. I'll be using the 10" RS series Parts Express woofer for the low end. Possibly IB, but I doubt it. More likely acoustic suspension. I can't seem to decide where I want to final Qtc to be. Any suggestions?

Dan

mightym · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Dec 2008, 09:11 pm »

Dan,

If you are referring to the Dayton RS270S, I just looked at the spec sheet for it, and it looks nice up to 1K.

I personally would not want to XO that high into the critical hearing band. My guess would be 2nd order around 500Hz, with an MLTL, or possibly a straight BR tuned to around 30Hz with a box Q of 7 ish, easy enough to do w/ winisd. That would sure alleviate the muddy bass you experienced on the little FR'er.

I don't really know what your after, big vs small box etc (though IB's tend to run to the Monkey Coffin end of the spectrum).

Could you post more pic's of the Small baffle construction, or further explain how you did the faux graining? I'm curious as to the gyrations you had to go through to achieve that look.

I've been playing with Hornresp this afternoon trying to finalize an 8" tapped horn sub to go with the 4 Ohm RS100. I've been trying to see how small I could make it and still get the BW I need. I put it on a diet, and got it down to 3.58 Cu. Ft. Internal Vol., while maintaining +/- 3 Db from 23 to 80 Hz @ 95Db 1Pi. Using a cheap Dayton 8" DC200-8 woofer.

Now to build it and see if it works like predicted. ( And sound good too

)

John

DanTheMan · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Dec 2008, 07:43 pm »

I didn't take any other photos of the build other than the ones I posted. I know I should always document things a bit better, but laziness kicked in. It took me about 40hrs just to build those baffles! It's the second time I ever tried and the first I ever got right. Now that I know how to do it, I'm actually going to start over with a bit smarter of a design(hopefully I don't have another brilliant

idea after building ths next pair). I hink I have it perfected at this point though. We'll see. I just order the raw material and I'll be out of the country for the holidays so I think it will be sometime next year before I get them built. After hearing the difference between raw wood and PVC, I've got to build the whole box out of PVC. It sounds great right now, but still boxy. Much better than any other small box I've cobbled so I see great potential in the material.

I don't have the ability to build large boxes out of anything other than wood, so the tens will be in wood. Perhaps I should look into a horn for them? Sounds like a good idea, but will probably just do IB again. Horns can be rather complicated and expensive to build. I don't really want to do BR now. I just keep thinking of my BR experiences and they just haven't been great. I'll be bummed if I put a ton of work in something that ends up with port noise. I suppose if I go all out and make some huge flared ports I'd be alright......so maybe, maybe. They would go much deeper that way. I've heard some darn good ported boxes--I have a set of 2 Pi right now that are great, but they are large boxes that only do into the 50Hz region w/o any clearly audible bass issues.