Tube talk - NOS (or used) versus new production

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #20 on:** 1 Sep 2008, 06:07 pm »

Quote from: SET Man on 1 Sep 2008, 05:06 am

So, I guess I have to say that a good NOS is less problematic then new tube so far. Well, I just can't understand why can't current tube manufactures can't make tube that are as good as the NOS?

Take care,
Buddy

Yup, that's EXACTLY where I'm at. NOS tubes are less problematic than the new ones - and I think until I find substantial evidence to suggest this has changed, I'm buying only NOS or even used.

I think if anyone will get new tubes that sound good, don't cost a fortune and will have adequate quality control it will be the Chinese. Russian reliability of the Lada (my Uncle in Cyprus owned one...and it was horrible) and Slovak excellence

in manufacturing of the Yugo point ominously to those places as unable to produce quality tubes. There seems little inclination for mass automation and consistent quality control.

I sure hope I'm proved wrong, however (my wallet would appreciate it)

John

markC · « **Reply #21 on:** 1 Sep 2008, 06:35 pm »

I don't know about other tube types, but the Russian 6N1P's have proved very reliable for me. I use them in my pre and they last 2 years before showing any sign of weakening. Even if a little below new, I'll replace them because I have lots and they're cheap.

jrebman · « **Reply #22 on:** 1 Sep 2008, 07:49 pm »

John,

You can hardly compare socialist era consumer goods to capitalist era goods. Right now it seems that Russian mob influence is the greatest deterrant to top quality tubes as most of the soviet era military stuff is of incredible quality, and with exceptionally long service lives.

The Yugo, for what it was -- a socialist era attempt at a mass produced export product did pretty well considering, and had there not been a war I believe we would have seen a lot of improvement in the quality of export goods. As it is now, Serbia is making some fine electronics and components, and if the market will support it, the tubes could follow. Again, the military stuff from these countries was damned good.

Note that I'm not negating your claim that NOS and even used NOS are easier to deal with -- I have and use plenty of both -- but it really does appear that at least some of the new production stuff is decent and will get better. I also think you're right in that the Chinese will figure this out and master it sooner than the others.

-- Jim

SET Man · « **Reply #23 on:** 1 Sep 2008, 08:54 pm »

Quote from: jrebman on 1 Sep 2008, 04:56 pm

....
As for Buddy's question -- why can't they make new tubes as good as they used to, well, the answer is that they can, and I believe they will, but only a few select companies and probably only a handful of the most popular types. Once they figure out that the demand is there, or creat the demand with some speculative ventures (as it appears they are starting to do) I think we'll be seeing even more, and higher quality tubes out of the former soviet block and China.

I'm optimistic, and as much as I love my NOS tubes, the prices are really going insane, so I'm far less likely to buy any tube gear that requires tube types that are not readily available, or stated another way, gear that is voiced to sound good with the more readily available new production stuff -- of which there are more and more examples showing up all the time.

-- Jim

Hey!

I hope so. Audiophiles have been asking this question for many years now.

Some NOS tube todays are very expensive for me and many others.

I bought 8 Ei 12AX7 tubes... well it was on sale on Antique Electronic Supply so I stocked up

Newest production according to them. And many of them measured below my tester's "average new" So, with this when people say that NOS last longer I do believe them. Because so far those NOS even some used one that I've measured are above average new.

I still have hope that new production tubes will improve. Yes, the Chinese today are more capable to make cheap good quality tubes... if they are willing to do so. I think it will be great if there are new productions tube that would last and sound good. I would prefer to rely on new production tubes than NOS because of the availability.

BTW... there is one pair of tubes that performed flawlessly in my system for the past 7 years, average 4 hours a day, 5 days a week for 7 years... and look like they still have more to go. The KR Audio 842VHD power tube in my SET amps.

I recently bought a new pair. And to my surprise the old pair sill sound good compare to the new one. Look like the old pair still good for a few more years. The downside of this is that they are not easy to find and very expensive. Actually rediculously expensive now, the price when up from $625/pr to $825/pr recently... thanks to the weaken dollar of which have a lot to do with this.

I might have to try to convert my amps to take the cheaper regular 300B in a decade or two

Anyway, let's see what the future might hold for us tubed-audiophile

Take care,
Buddy

markC · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 03:32 am »

http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Kr/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=13&ProductID=5

Might want to check this out, Buddy and ask why you were charged so much.

SET Man · « **Reply #25 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 04:33 am »

Quote from: markC on 7 Sep 2008, 03:32 am

http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Kr/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=13&ProductID=5

Might want to check this out, Buddy and ask why you were charged so much.

Hey!

That have been up on the net for a long time now and he never updated the price.

Also, I CAN NOT recommend this dealer. Long story.

But if anyone need KR Audio tube I know a great dealer that I had very good exprience with. But
I'm sorry to say that the current price for the KR Audio 842VHD tubes are now $910/pr and $870/pr for 300B I think

These are excellent tubes at $625/pr before the recent price increase I would say that is a very good deal and value for tube of these quality. But now they are getting expensive. But if I were to buy a pair 300B I would go for the KR 300B at $870/pr rather than the new production WE 300B.

Anyway, sadly much of this really have to do with the weakening US dollar I think

Take care,
Buddy

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #26 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 05:15 am »

Buddy....

Did you check here... for the KR Audio tubes ? (I don't know if the prices are still the same...)

By the way.....KR Audio will be at this years RMAF.

SET Man · « **Reply #27 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 05:23 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 7 Sep 2008, 05:15 am

Buddy....

Did you check here... for the KR Audio tubes ? (I don't know if the prices are still the same...)

By the way.....KR Audio will be at this years RMAF.

Hey!

I did PM him he said that he got a pair of early stock but never told me the price but told me to call. I never did and I forgot about him. Hmmm... why can't he just tell me the price right off?

Oh! Well, I will be surprised if he got a pair of a current version for that price now.

But I do have a new pair now and these should last me another 10+ years

BTW... your KR amp use the same tube as my amps. So, if you could pick up a pair of the current version, the one with straight bottle for the old price you might want to do that.

Take care,
Buddy

mjosef · « **Reply #28 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 05:28 am »

For those prices one can buy a new amp.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #29 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 05:30 am »

Buddy....

Quote

BTW... your KR amp use the same tube as my amps. So, if you could pick up a pair of the current version, the one with straight bottle for the old price you might want to do that.

I may just do that....

I've not used the amp for awhile....but winters coming...

SET Man · « **Reply #30 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 05:36 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 7 Sep 2008, 05:28 am

For those prices one can buy a new amp.

Hey!

Yeah, I know I could buy a new tube amps or a nice used one for that price

But what can I do? I love my amp and sadly that they use these KR 842VHD tubes

Hmmm.... a new tube amp every 10 years or a new pair of tubes every 10 years?

Take care,
Buddy

SET Man · « **Reply #31 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 05:38 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 7 Sep 2008, 05:30 am

Buddy....

Quote
BTW... your KR amp use the same tube as my amps. So, if you could pick up a pair of the current version, the one with straight bottle for the old price you might want to do that.

I may just do that....
I've not used the amp for awhile....but winters coming...

Hey!

Let me know if you could find a pair at old price. I might get another spare pair.

Take care,
Buddy

Rocket · « **Reply #32 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 06:55 am »

Hi TCG,

Where do you buy your NOS tubes from?

I am after 4 tubes for my preamp. 2 x 12BH7 and 2 x 12AU7's. I'm not really interested in spending $50US each for a tube.

Am I being too cheap?

Regards

Rod

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #33 on:** 7 Sep 2008, 08:42 pm »

Hi ho, Rod -

I buy some on ebay, some from vendors found on the net. I think the most I ever paid for a tube (new or used) is US$16.

So, nope, your not too cheap (I maybe, however). Ha. John

Jon L · « **Reply #34 on:** 8 Sep 2008, 12:11 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 7 Sep 2008, 04:33 am

But if anyone need KR Audio tube I know a great dealer that I had very good exprience with. But
I'm sorry to say that the current price for the KR Audio 842VHD tubes are now $910/pr and $870/pr for 300B I think

*Shaking my head in disbelief*

In my book, $910/pr automatically rules out the term "great dealer." Why do you guys let'em stick it to you like this ?

bacobits1 · « **Reply #35 on:** 8 Sep 2008, 12:32 am »

Yikes, if I had to pay that much for tubes I would move to solid state.

I look for equipment that sounds good and is cheap or reasonable to re-tube. Not exotic or rare.
I don't care how good it sounds.
My opinion of course.

Rocket, 12BH7's, one of the best there is is NOS RCA, check E Bay I got a lot of reasonable tubes there.
I just sold 2 12BH7 RCA ( Mexico, which are just as good as the USA), and a Tungsol. Cheap.

D

Freo-1 · « **Reply #36 on:** 8 Sep 2008, 12:43 am »

Well, there's two sets of issues with this argument:

1) Reliability: The small signal NOS tubes seem to be more reliable overall. I've tried NOS and current production, and to be honest, I've had problems with both. It's just that the NOS types that do not die from infant mortality seem to last a good long time, certainly longer than the current production tubes. Power tubes are even more problematic. Both NOS and current production have a failure rate higher than I would like. I've had both NOS and current production tubes go cherry pretty early in their life. The SED 6550C is a long lasting tube for current production, but, GE 6550A/Tung Sol/Sylvania 6550 seem to last longer.

2) Sound: This is the real sticking point. NOS small signal tubes KICK ASS over current production types. There simply is no comparison for the 6DJ8 Amperex to anything made today. I use 5687, and there really is no current production type to compare. Thankfully, they are still plentiful at a reasonable price. Power tubes is a bit more murky. While the SED 6550C and Gold Lion Re-Issue KT88 both sound pretty good, compared to NOS, they just do not sound as good (especially Tung Sol black plates!)

So, all things considered, an audiophile on a budget should get NOS small signal tubes, and stick with current production power tubes. If you do some homework, you can sometimes get GE 6550A for close to the same price as GL KT88 re-issues. If you can spring a little extra coin, then get one NOS set of power tubes, and use them for serious listening, and current production for everyday use.

mcullinan · « **Reply #37 on:** 8 Sep 2008, 12:45 am »

I purchased some TAD KT66 and I think they are awesome. It's a german company tube audio doctor.
Mike

Freo-1 · « **Reply #38 on:** 8 Sep 2008, 01:21 am »

They (TAD) are a vendor. Most of their tubes are Chinese (I think).

jrebman · « **Reply #39 on:** 8 Sep 2008, 01:27 am »

Only some TAD tubes are relabelled -- others are made on contract, and not all chinese by any means. Somewhere I have a list -- I'll try to find it later.

-- Jim