[AmpDesigner333]

FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts!  More later...

...and you're serious about $90 for shipping ?

...see my previous post...

[THE_ANSWERS]

Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

The price will go up after that.

About half an hour left...

Shipping cost will be refunded to AC members!

Also, if you have any comments on the Audiogon (Cherry) listing, please post them to this thread.

Thanks.

like i said, ebay is probably a bad place for your product .  noboy knows what the hell an amp is there   but you can sell your baseball cards!!!!!!
i will take a look at the audiogon entry
good luck

[THE_ANSWERS]

just left a private message for you

[AmpDesigner333]

just left a private message for you

I did NOT receive a PM from you.  Are you sure you sent it correctly?  Please try again, and thanks for your post.

[AmpDesigner333]

The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990

[THE_ANSWERS]

The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990

told you so !!!!!!!!

i found this on audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&

the listing is nice    but no mention of the review above    w h y    n o t ????  its even on the same web site

[THE_ANSWERS]

just left a private message for you

I did NOT receive a PM from you.  Are you sure you sent it correctly?  Please try again, and thanks for your post.

just sent one, pls check

[THE_ANSWERS]

amp designer,
look at this !
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58753.msg521778;topicseen#new

[THE_ANSWERS]

.......and this one
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58144.60

[AmpDesigner333]

just left a private message for you

I did NOT receive a PM from you.  Are you sure you sent it correctly?  Please try again, and thanks for your post.

just sent one, pls check

Got it.  Thanks for the posts and links, too.

[AmpDesigner333]

The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990

told you so !!!!!!!!

i found this on audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&

the listing is nice    but no mention of the review above    w h y    n o t ????  its even on the same web site

Here is the text from that review on Audiogon:
Distortion in music reproduction bothers me. It takes away from my enjoyment. A clean precise reproduction of a note or word from whence it came excites me. The "Cherry Amp" from Digital Amplifier Company excites me. This is a piece of equiptment that when added to my system it made me want to listen to my entire music collection all over again. It is like switching from a cone to an electrostat or a first generation cd player to a high end Sacd player.
Power in my system had been coming from a pair of Cary slam 100 monoblocks and a DAC 4800a ($3600 from digital amp). After listening to a pair of Apogee Caliper Signatures I felt I needed more to open them up. In comes the "Cherry" amp. While waiting I listened to my tube amps exclusively to give myself a solid reference point.
Right out of the box it is impressive. The front panel is Cherry red and minimalist in its design. It is heavy for its size, very solid, no wasted air inside this chassis. Set up is easy.
I love a female voice. First up "Spanish Harlem" sung by Rebecca Pigeon. The disc is "The worlds Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings" prodused by Chesky records. A solo bass starts out, each note is defined and clear. Rebeccas voice chimes in, she is there full bodied with plenty of depth. Percussion followed by strings and then piano. Every note is distinct with good placement on the stage. A wonderful recording and this amp laid it out beautifully.
Piano is very difficult to reproduce. The keys, the way they are touched and the after sound can be captured. This is where some ss amps have accuracy but lose the felling. Each note feels hollow. I start with Red Rose recordings of "In a sentimental mood" and " Misty". Then on to George Winstons "Autumn" and finally The Grande Piano Concert by Rick Wakeman. Each artist uses a different piano. The clarity and warmth of each can be distinguished. When a finger slowly touches and releases a key it is there. This I have missed in my tube amps. Even though they sound warm and full they sometimes do not bring out a soft hidden sound. The Cherry did. Tract 4 on Red Rose "Recitative in Scherzo for solo Violin" sounds so different. The violin has fullness and not a hint of screech.
So far the recordings are not complicated. They point to the accuracy of reproduction that an amp needs to perform. I have been playing the volume at low to moderate. Now on to some more complicated pasages.
Tract 2 from Ottmar Liebert + Luna Negra's disc "Viva" is entitled Buddhas Flower. It has a very deep soundstage. In the background are "peepers". My solid states and tubes have all faired well with this passage. But with the Cherry the peepers are very clear. They do not overwhelm any part of the music but they are distinct in each peep and stand out more. Very nice. Stravinsky's "Firebird Suite", Tchaikovsky's "1812 overture" and "Fanfare for the Common Man" are demanding pieces. The first two have passages that requirre an amp to put out power immediately and go back to quiet then more power. Different instruments jump in and out. Quite a workout for the Conductor as well. Fanfare has some very low rolling percussions that if not delivered with clean power will buckle a speaker. I had experienced this with both sets of speakers. But not when they were being powered by the Cherry. Even Dagda "Druids in the Glen" is phenominal.
Throughout the listening I have been using the Apogee Caliper Signatures. The room is 22 x 24. They are 3 ft from the back wall and 2 ft from the side wall. At high volumes I detected no stain on the amp or deterioration in the sound. This cannot be said for the other amps. They either heated up and could not power the Calipers for long periods or they introduced distotion and did not open up the speakers.
Next I switched the speakers to my Quad 22L2's. These are a two and a half box speaker. They have a rear port and are therefor placed 18 inches away from the back wall. The one problem I have had is in the low end. It has been boomy. Low notes are muddled. I attributed it to the room acoustics. I just have not been able to get their placement right. I ran the previous selections through and was amazed at what I heard. The Cherry amp opened up the quads. Obviously the amp has more power than they can handle but the speakers blossomed. The low end was deep and clear. I even threw in some Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon". The high was not tinny but crisp. Prior to the Cherry I thought of these Quads as a good box speaker but still a box. Now they have an airy quality up high and a firmness down low. There sound stage is wider. I enjoy listening to them. Something I could not say when they were hooked up to my other amps.
This is my first amp costing over $5000. It is worth it. I am delighted with the improvement in my system. My Apogees and Quads have been opened up. The clarity of the Apogees at high volumes is impressive with the Cherry amp. At low volumes depth and fullness is present. The sound stage is wide and deep and each instrument has its place. The Cherry Amp from Digital Amp Company has increased my enjoyment of music and my other equipment. I highly reccommend this amp.

Associated gear
   Source-Shanling T200a Sacd
   Preamp- Bel Canto pre3
   Speakers- Apogee Caliper Signature
   Quad 22L2

Similar products
   Conrad Johnson cav50
   DAC 4800A
   Cary Slam 100s
   Manley Stingray

[AmpDesigner333]

The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990

told you so !!!!!!!!

i found this on audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&

the listing is nice    but no mention of the review above    w h y    n o t ????  its even on the same web site

I added a link this this review in the listing.  Thanks again.

[AmpDesigner333]

Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808

Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com).  Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com.  There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!!  Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).

Anyway, check it out ASAP!

Just over one day left on the auction!

Thanks.

Have a great weekend...

[AmpDesigner333]

Plucked from the Digital Amplifier Company BLOG (http://digitalamp.blogspot.com/)...

Here we go...  First, I'm always weary of reviews from magazines.  There are hardly any bad ones in fear of "burning bridges", getting sued, or losing a potential advertising client.  No magazine in their right mind will admit to this.  In fact they will deny it tooth and nail.  Same deal for "product rewards"; many are bought and paid for indirectly.  Reviews that simply show measurements and no opinion whatsoever can usually be trusted, but are hard to find.  Measurements can't tell you everything, but can tell you a lot.  Manufacturers rarely falsify or embellish measurements due to fear of getting caught.  However, there are some tricks that can make measurements look better, such as rating power at 10% THD, but this is also very rare.  The most trustworthy source of how something sounds (beyond measurements) is actual customers.  However, people have a tendency to like whatever they bought, so watch out for reviews that have no comparisons to anything else.  Regarding well recognized brand names, don't believe that just because a brand is well known and has a long history that they only make spectacular products.  I had a WELL KNOWN (maybe the MOST well known amp brand of all) amp and was explaining my total disappointment with it to a friend.  He said something like "I can't believe you bought one, everybody knows that amp sucks.  It sounds just awful and was a complete failure for them".  He also said that despite the bad sound of this design, they sold a TON of them.  One important figure is signal to noise ratio.  Anything less than 100dB with respect to rated power should be avoided like the plague.  There's no reason in this day and age that you can't design just about any type of amplifier at least that good.  Noise is the enemy of good sound!  If there is an SNR measurement at 1W, look for at least 85dB.  This is A-weighted.  Unweighted SNR is not as meaningful of a spec since the human ear has frequency dependent sensitivity curve.  The "ear near the tweeter" test is actually quite useful if you have a single tweeter that's no more than 2" long in any direction.  Listen not only to how much noise there is but also the character of the noise.  Quality amps are dead quiet or close at idle.  Look for amps with THD+N below 0.01% for a good portion of the power curve and at all frequencies.  This is especially important at low levels, so look for THD+N well under 0.1% at 1KHz, 100mW.  Unfortunately, many manufacturers don't provide this spec, and if they do, it's probably on a graph (THD+N versus power), not in text, and sometimes you need to interpolate.  Look for amps with direct coupled output.  Output transformers are fine for distributed audio in your local supermarket sound system.  They saturate at low frequencies.  Another one...  Damping factor under 50 is a red flag.  If damping factor or output impedance (reciprocal of this divided by the load impedance is damping factor) is not mentioned, it's probably poor.  Also, as damping factor goes higher and higher it means less and less.  I doubt any human being can hear the difference between an amp with a damping factor of 300 and one with a damping factor of 450 that's otherwise the same.  Regarding the "sound" as perceived by any reviewer comparing two or more amps, if the comparisons aren't double blind, they aren't super valuable.  The mind simply can't remove bias reliably otherwise.  Single blind is much more meaningful than non-blind.  You might also be surprised how many so-called "golden ears" fail double blind listening tests (essentially can't tell the difference) when the amps are similar!  It's funny to hear the excuses when you call them on it.  This is especially amusing with aftermarket modifications.  My theory is "buy something that was designed right in the first place".  Anyway...  Regarding output power, watch out for manufacturers of anemic amplifiers that tell you their 30W amp is great for driving your 10-driver per channel tower speaker system.  You need adequate power to drive your speakers through peaks unless you never "turn it up".  Big speakers need big power to play loud and clean at the same time.  I recommend a few hundred watts minimum per channel unless you're driving a pair of bookshelf speakers in a small room.  Also watch for amps with lots of power but bad specs otherwise.  Beware of amps with a spec called "instantaneous peak power" of something similar.  This is technically twice RMS output power at rated output right before clipping.  If you see this rating and it's NOT twice rated power, there's something fishy going on.  This spec is used deceptively so beware of its use either way.  Regarding inputs, when possible, insist on balanced inputs or both unbalanced and balanced.  Balanced audio is inherently better due to built-in noise cancellation, and if you can afford a good preamp with balanced outputs, use one for your primary audio system.  Here's something I wrote regarding pro amp measurements more than 3 years ago:
http://www.livesoundint.com/archives/2004/dec/power.pdf
Yes, I worked in pro sound for several years, but learned a lot.  I know lots of high-end people think anything pro audio is junk.  They are just wrong.

Second, unless you are an amplifier design engineer, chances are you will not be able to make heads or tails of what supposedly is best in circuit design.  Good paper designs can also be implemented poorly in actual hardware.  I hope to explain more in a another post soon, going through the list in the first post.  In general, watch out for BS about amps that sound great but have poor specs.  Having great specs is no guarantee of great sound, but if you care about accuracy, amps with bad specs are usually not going to deliver accuracy.  Circuit details about the kind of rectifiers or output transformer or "special capacitors" might sound like real engineering talk, but much of the stuff I've seen like this is simply marketing and many times a bunch of crap.  Here's one: If someone told you the black chassis sounds better than the silver one is obviously full of it!

Third, some people don't have good enough ears to tell the difference between amps and will swear up and down that their new 30W amp with really high THD and noise they just bought sounds better than the 200W amp with near perfect performance that they previously owned.  An "audiophile" I used to know told me that the 48KHz bit rate internet radio he had sounded better than his CD collection!  Would you trust his opinion on amplifiers?  In my humble opinion, there are way too many lies out there about audio equipment in general.  I find this insulting to consumers.  Amplifier design is part science and part art.  Good amplifier design is much more science than art.  Great amplifier design is nearly 100% science.  Here's hoping you see right through the hype...  I wrote quite a bit, so please forgive any errors, especially spelling and grammar...

[Rocket]

Hi,

A pretty good assessment imo.

However, people have a tendency to like whatever they bought, so watch out for reviews that have no comparisons to anything else.

I personally don't trust reviews.  Audiophile reviews are very subjective and are open to an individuals likes and dislikes.  I've bought a number of products that left me very disappointed from reviews from this site.

I remember buying a ps audio hca - 2 on the recommendation of reviews.  I think I read about 50 reviews from customers and 1 on them was negative.  Well guess what that one review was correct.

I had to spend quite a bit of money to get the amplifier to sound good.

I wish you well with your amplifier sales though.  You should try sending the amplifier around to different individuals to ascertain their opinions.  This is the best way for an audiophile to ascertain whether the product is what they want.

Regards

Rod

[jman66]

Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808

Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com).  Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com.  There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!!  Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).

Anyway, check it out ASAP!

Just over one day left on the auction!

Thanks.

Have a great weekend...

I have a question. Why is a $6000 amp built with a pair of plastic nut binding posts? Same said for the DAC4800A?
You mention boards stuffed with premium, expensive components, yet the binding posts don't appear premium.
Thanks!

[2bigears]

you do know you have the only red component out there,i would consider a new face plate for starters,even the name kinda sucks.maybe I'm too old,or old fashioned.too radical for me just looking at her.... please note i scratched this down before my first cup of Jo.no harm intended,just my early-in-the-day  comments

[TomS]

I have a question. Why is a $6000 amp built with a pair of plastic nut binding posts? Same said for the DAC4800A?
You mention boards stuffed with premium, expensive components, yet the binding posts don't appear premium.
Thanks!

Yeah, not that premium parts are all that big of deal sometimes in terms of just sonics.  I think of it more in terms of noise, robustness, reliability, function, and overall value in terms of living with the component over the long haul.  That's exactly why I use Cardas single knob binding posts (CPBP) in all my DIY gear.  Expensive but functionally great for my needs.  Even my Odyssey amps, at less than 1/3 the price, and known for incredibly good value, have chunky WBT's.

Still, from the post I too was curious exactly what "premium" parts we're talking about here?  People do ave very different perspectives on what might even be considered premium, particularly in the age of coupling caps that cost hundreds of dollars, $13 Vishay low power resistors, $30 fuses, and of course, sky high tube prices.

[AmpDesigner333]

Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808

Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com).  Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com.  There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!!  Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).

Anyway, check it out ASAP!

Just over one day left on the auction!

Thanks.

Have a great weekend...

I have a question. Why is a $6000 amp built with a pair of plastic nut binding posts? Same said for the DAC4800A?
You mention boards stuffed with premium, expensive components, yet the binding posts don't appear premium.
Thanks!

Actually, they are, but you're right, they don't "look it"...  I have the same posts on a Krell.  Thanks.

[AmpDesigner333]

Don't get me wrong!  I do like the way some tube amps sound.  The just have that smoothness about them that's very pleasing.  I like to think my amps do well in that same area without the downsides of tubes (replacing them, weight, etc.).  Many of our customers also have tube amps!