GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts

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laserman

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GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« on: 4 Aug 2008, 03:37 pm »
GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts

First thing I want to do is give a big shout-out and thank you to Hank for providing the necessary assistance, because without his skilled help these speakers would not be residing in my home.

Okay, another big shout-out and thank you goes out to Danny for continuing to experiment and add new members to the GR Family.  I hope he never stops dreaming up new ideas and doing what he does so well.

The PE cabinets are very good and one of the best bang for the bucks out there for frugal non-wood working folks like me, especially with Danny’s discount.  Fit and finish definitely get the grade of A.  For those who can whip out those beautiful handmade A++ cabinets, all I can say is I am humbled by your skills. 

As most of us have learned over the years…NO SPEAKER IS PERFECT or the final word in a design.  They are compromises made based on a culmination of a designer’s philosophy and pure physics.  In addition, they have to be incorporated into the end user’s electronics and listening room.  The Neo 2X’s are no exception and present one Designer’s product being used by one User.  My thoughts are thereby subjective to my preferences, electronics, and listening room environment.  I run them full frequency and fill in the bottom with a sealed sub.  That being said, I will preface my detailed remarks with this little caveat – the drivers and XO are well implemented because what they do for their small size is wonderfully musical and engaging.

Listening room: My secondary listening room is 30’ X 13’ with a mostly 8’ ceiling except for the center which drops down to 7’2” to accommodate the 6.5’ wide HVAC ductwork and under which the speakers reside; nicely treated at first reflection spots and base traps using OC703 2”- 4” thick depending on application.  Yes, the room is/was a challenge to tame.  The reason I went on the hunt for another stand-mounted speaker (like I needed a reason,  :lol:) was because as much as I enjoyed my current full time candidates there were a few tics and fleas I wanted to get resolved…mainly in the lower end and upper midrange.

Equipment used: Rega Apollo cdp, Bryston BP25 Pre, Aragon 8008BB in balance mode, and a Vandersteen 2W sub.  The equipment has an appealing synergy and works for me.  However, I have made small incremental changes in cables over the years to get a little more out of electronics.  Cables used: Zu Cable Gede and BetterCable Silver II XLR IC’s, Zu Cable Wax SC, and MIT Z-chord II and Zu Cable Bok PC.  While this system is not the cream of the crop in terms of sonic performance it has always been a solid performing system for a relatively frugal budget.

Speaker Placement: It did not take much to establish them into my room.  They are about 7’ apart resting on 27” stands that are mass loaded with lead shot and sand, slightly toed-in, rear of cabinet is 3’ away from the front wall (free standing cedar storage containers that are only 8’ W X 5.5’ H), sidewall distances are L = 24” and R = 51” away (measured from the center of the speaker).  Listening position is about 9’ from each speaker and 8’ from the rear wall.

My thoughts:  (after burning them in for 100+ hours)

Soundstage Recreation:   These monitors present a very amazing vertical, horizontal and deep soundstage.  Horizontal dispersion was about average for this 2-Way design (in my usual starting location) until I played around with placement and moved the L speaker away from the sidewall by another 5”.  When I did that, the soundstage became much wider.  The speakers do disappear and the listener sweet spot is wide.  If you stand up the sound stage will remain very balanced and consistent throughout the audible frequency range.  What I liked most was they didn’t push the soundstage aggressively into my face on loud passages and volumes.

Clarity, Transparency and Resolution:   I had experienced the Neo tweeter on Danny’s OB-5 design and liked what I heard from this diminutive planar driver.  However, I was still skeptical they wouldn’t be smooth.  They are accurate, detailed, clear and yet warm and silky smooth - even when pushed hard.  These speakers are not analytical like others that have passed through my second system.  I know what I like and dislike by whether I reach for the remote and want to turn the volume up or down.  I found myself continually pushing the volume up.  If you are looking for tipped up or analytical presentation of every little nuance detailed in the upper frequencies, please look elsewhere.

Airy, Spacious, and Open:   On familiar music I could now hear various instruments more revealing than before because they seemed to have separated from each other with more space around them.  As I turned up the volume the speakers remained coherent.  The cabinets appear not to be adding any coloration to the overall sonic characteristics, compared to others I have auditioned.

Bass Response:  They are sealed and appear to be getting an in-room response the high 60’sHz.  This will be measured and confirmed at a later date.  The mid/bass driver presents a firm and quick response.  There appears to be a nice slow roll off.  In a smaller room, near the front wall, these may be all you need.  I used a sealed sub crossed over at around 70Hz, and at very little output the lower frequencies filled in nicely to my taste.  [See Other below.]

Transient Response – Attack: This is another area where the Neo 3 Planar Tweeters showed what they could do.  They are lightening fast when it comes to things I focus on, e.g. cymbals, guitar strings, and drum kits.  String instruments sounded very authentic and rich. The woofer may have had some input here too due to it’s design but I’ll let Danny respond to this. 

Sweet Sound:   There was no spearing of the sound.  All the music I played was lively but not overbearing.  There were no peaks in the music that weren’t supposed to be there via the recording.  In other words, these speaks present an even flat frequency response in my room setting.

Ear, Mind, and Body Reaction:  As I stated above, I have been reaching for the remote to turn the volume up.  The overall sound is very relaxing and more importantly - musical.  In this area, I always defer the final word to my bride because she cuts through all the BS and states her opinion in non-audiophile terms.  She said they sounded very balanced from top to bottom, neutral, pleasant at higher volumes, excellent soundstage, engaging and wanted to listen longer to some of her favorites (Eva Cassidy, Steve Reid, and Seal).

Other:   These do have their limits when it comes to volume output.  I pushed them hard to see where the boundaries were.  Unless you play heavy bass oriented music with peaks going higher than 94 db, they will be just fine.  I have Bela Fleck and Brian Bromberg cds to test these limits and the little mid/woofer wanted to keep up with the lower frequencies, but gave me notice I had reached their limit.  I’m very happy with the output and how they filled my room with sound.  In talking to Danny, he said the floor standers that Hank was so kind to post a drawing of or cutting off the Neo’s at around 80 Hz and using a sub would give you the ability to turn the volume up louder.  However, if you have a large enough room and are looking for Bela Fleck & the Flecktones or Pineapple Tree concert levels sitting 30 rows back, please build yourself a pair of OB-7’s with dual servo subs.

Bottom line: A fun speaker to listen to.  Highly recommended and a great value for the sonic characteristic results produced.  As always, YMMV based on electronics, room environment and personal preferences.

Lou


emac

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GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #1 on: 4 Aug 2008, 03:56 pm »
Terrific review, Lou.  Glad to hear that you're enjoying the speakers, and that they are well worth it.  You and your wife are not the easiest people to please when it comes to audio.  :wink: So, that's a real testament to how good the Neo's are. 

ebag4

Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #2 on: 4 Aug 2008, 04:22 pm »
Nice review Lou.  Could you compare the similarities and differences in sound between the OB-5s and the Neo-2X?

Thanks,
Ed

emac

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #3 on: 4 Aug 2008, 04:24 pm »
Nice review Lou.  Could you compare the similarities and differences in sound between the OB-5s and the Neo-2X?

Thanks,
Ed

Or any other speakers that come to mind.

laserman

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #4 on: 4 Aug 2008, 04:43 pm »
Nice review Lou.  Could you compare the similarities and differences in sound between the OB-5s and the Neo-2X?

Thanks,
Ed

Ed #2, it has been a long time since I auditioned the OB-5's.  I did do a write up here when I travelled up north to Canada Denny's to listen to them.  I don't have total recall and besides the room I listened to them in was enormous.


Terrific review, Lou.  Glad to hear that you're enjoying the speakers, and that they are well worth it.  You and your wife are not the easiest people to please when it comes to audio.  :wink: So, that's a real testament to how good the Neo's are. 

Ed #1, I tend to stay away from these type of public comparisons of different brands for obvious reasons and to keep threads from denigrating to AVSforum lows.   However, I will try to respond to a PM or telephone call if I have encountered what it is you want me to compare it to. 

Lou

Hank

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #5 on: 4 Aug 2008, 04:58 pm »
Lou, excellent review.  Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you got the horizontal soundstage "fixed" by pulling the one speaker away from its too-close-to-the-wall position.  The woofs do improve with break-in and I think you're there at 100+ hours.  Smile at the music :D

I like your decision to not compare brands on the forum. :angel:

KenShelton

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #6 on: 4 Aug 2008, 08:55 pm »
My feelings in my room:
"The speakers do disappear and the listener sweet spot is wide.  If you stand up the sound stage will remain very balanced and consistent throughout the audible frequency range."

"They are accurate, detailed, clear and yet warm and silky smooth - even when pushed hard.  These speakers are not analytical like others that have passed through my second system.  I know what I like and dislike by whether I reach for the remote and want to turn the volume up or down.  I found myself continually pushing the volume up."

"On familiar music I could now hear various instruments more revealing than before because they seemed to have separated from each other with more space around them.  As I turned up the volume the speakers remained coherent. "

"The mid/bass driver presents a firm and quick response."

"They are lightening fast when it comes to things I focus on, e.g. cymbals, guitar strings, and drum kits.  String instruments sounded very authentic and rich."

"All the music I played was lively but not overbearing."

"The overall sound is very relaxing and more importantly - musical."

"I’m very happy with the output and how they filled my room with sound....A fun speaker to listen to."


I don't disagree with any of the other comments.  Either I don't know how to describe what I heard, or my room and the less-than-optimal placement didn't produce the results.  I am very happy with these speakers, and their final placement will be better than the present placement. 

I describe complex music as a tapestry of sound, and these speakers allow me to hear the texture of that tapestry.


emac

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #7 on: 4 Aug 2008, 09:58 pm »
My feelings in my room:
"The speakers do disappear and the listener sweet spot is wide.  If you stand up the sound stage will remain very balanced and consistent throughout the audible frequency range."

"They are accurate, detailed, clear and yet warm and silky smooth - even when pushed hard.  These speakers are not analytical like others that have passed through my second system.  I know what I like and dislike by whether I reach for the remote and want to turn the volume up or down.  I found myself continually pushing the volume up."

"On familiar music I could now hear various instruments more revealing than before because they seemed to have separated from each other with more space around them.  As I turned up the volume the speakers remained coherent. "

"The mid/bass driver presents a firm and quick response."

"They are lightening fast when it comes to things I focus on, e.g. cymbals, guitar strings, and drum kits.  String instruments sounded very authentic and rich."

"All the music I played was lively but not overbearing."

"The overall sound is very relaxing and more importantly - musical."

"I’m very happy with the output and how they filled my room with sound....A fun speaker to listen to."


I don't disagree with any of the other comments.  Either I don't know how to describe what I heard, or my room and the less-than-optimal placement didn't produce the results.  I am very happy with these speakers, and their final placement will be better than the present placement. 

I describe complex music as a tapestry of sound, and these speakers allow me to hear the texture of that tapestry.



Ken, I guess I'm a little confused with your wording.  Are you disagreeing with what you quoted from the review or are you agreeing?  Either way, though, it sounds like you enjoy the Neo's. 

pbrstreetgang

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #8 on: 4 Aug 2008, 11:21 pm »
Interesting, you say you dont feel they are articulate. With the neo 3 in the OB7 articulation and detail retrieval were amazing- right up there with the superb imaging and spatial cues. Of course this was on Dannys Dodd 50K monos. I did hear the same thing in Arts neo 8 using CLS9s. Ant that of course was with a SOTA system. Maybe the Neo 3 deep cup is a bit different in this respect?

laserman

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #9 on: 4 Aug 2008, 11:35 pm »
pbrsteetgang,

Interesting, you say you dont feel they are articulate.

If you are addressing this to me, I don't see where I used this word or phrase.  Can you shed some light on it for me, if it is directed at me, and I will try to respond.

Lou

KenShelton

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #10 on: 5 Aug 2008, 05:08 am »
Oh, yes, I agree with all of Lou's comments that I understood.  I disagree with nothing he said, just that there were some things either I didn't hear or didn't understand.

Articulate speakers?...very much so.  I can hear both the vibrato* and the tremolo** of a solo string instrument.  I feel that the extra cost bypass capacitors are a big help in this regard.  In Danny's words, they greatly reduce "smearing" of the musical notes.


*Vibrato is the frequency modulation caused by the rapid movement of the musician's finger on the string on the neck of the instrument.

**Tremolo is the amplitude modulation caused by the bow strings alternately grabbing and slipping on the instrument string.

pbrstreetgang

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #11 on: 5 Aug 2008, 05:20 am »
kinda. I reread and now more clearly understand what you were trying to say. This quote "If you are looking for tipped up or analytical presentation of every little nuance detailed in the upper frequencies, please look elsewhere."

Made me think you thought they were somehow lacking in the naunce and detail they present. I see you were meaning  overly bright.

laserman

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #12 on: 5 Aug 2008, 12:40 pm »
Hi Ken and pbs...,

Sorry if my wording is not up to the way you would describe things.  Make no mistake about it these speakers have great detail and air.  They compared favorably to my reference speakers in my main system...Paradox 3's with the Focal Tc120Tdx2 tweeter (hard to tame but once you do, it is wonderful).

As pbs...stated, overly bright speakers would be another phrase but I wanted to describe it as I've heard it.  My ears have been violated in auditions by speakers others rave about so I choose my words carefully.  Even the Neo's got tamed a little from an 8 ohm resistor to a 7 ohm resistor due to a fellow Neo owner (Alan) discussing what his thoughts were with Danny.  Danny experimented and liked the lower output and end result.  This is what I'm referring to in the "tipped up" phrase.  Overly detailed to me is when the upper frequencies are hot hot due to how the tweeter and midrange are integrated.  This shows up especially on average recorded Redbook cds I use to audition speakers.  IMHO it makes the detail unnatural sounding because of how it overshadows other more subtle instruments.   My ears go ouch and my hand quickly reaches for the volume control to lower it or I leave the room where the speakers are located if it's at another location.

Ken, I did have the Platinum bypass caps incorporated into the tweeter section.  I can hear the vibrato and tremolo too.  I haven't heard these words used since my playing days in HS.  Okay, I"m not a kid anymore... 8)

Lou

KenShelton

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #13 on: 5 Aug 2008, 05:53 pm »
Quote
I did have the Platinum bypass caps incorporated into the tweeter section
And I'm using the Sonicap Gen-II bypass caps.  People I trust say that the Platinums sound better...any are better than none.

pbrstreetgang

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #14 on: 5 Aug 2008, 07:04 pm »
I think all the sonicaps sound great, I use 9well Danny used it for me) a Big GenII bypassed by platinum sonicap and am delighted.

laserman

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #15 on: 19 Aug 2008, 02:48 pm »
Okay, I let the Neo 2x’s burn in for another 200 hours or so before revisiting them.  My impressions now verses after 100+ hours is the same, so it looks like 100 hours does the trick for burn in.

Some further thoughts:

On good recordings, voices were especially clear and intelligible.  I could hear inner details missing through other stand mounts speakers I have rolled through this system.  Even recordings of lesser quality sounded better.

Overall tone remained remarkably cohesive from top to bottom.  IME, no one range dominated another and the music blended seamlessly.  The upper range continued to demonstrate a transparent, extended, smooth, airy and open sound signature.  Voices and instruments had great clarity with surprising definition and inner details, not previously audible to me with such clarity, were revealed.  My wife felt there was a lack of cabinet resonance coloration on the vocal tracks.  Honest, those were her words.

Even though the bass is a little shy it is natural and provided a convincing underpinning for the music.  This is an area others may want to focus on if it a need.

As I mentioned previously, attacks were sharp and not merged or squeezed with decays; notes sounded full; musical pace, rhythm and timing were natural and realistic.

The soundstage was something I really wanted to focus on this time, and in relation to my primary system, the Neo’s give the illusion one is sitting around the fourth row back, allowing performances to develop behind the speakers.  It was deep enough when necessary.  Side to side, performances started a couple of feet on either side of the speakers with excellent center fill and layering.  The speakers did disappear and did not bring attention to themselves as the source of the performances.

I stand by my original comment - Highly recommended and a great value for the sonic characteristic results produced.  As always, YMMV based on electronics, room environment and personal preferences. :thumb:



KenShelton

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #16 on: 26 Aug 2008, 12:14 am »
Yet more thoughts

I have my NEO 2X speakers connected to my better system now.  The words that came to mind while listening were richness and clarity.  Richness doesn't mean lushness.  I'm trying to express, full, complete, very enjoyable sound that has great clarity at the same time.  The old Rod Stewart Unplugged was great--I was right there in the hall.  The violin in Vaughn Williams' The Lark Ascending was sublimely beautiful.

At one point, after...resting my eyes..., my eyes opened looking at one speaker and I thought, "the music isn't coming from that speaker."  The music was coming from that end of the room, not from the speakers (and of course it was).

And, beware.  Poor recordings sound poor.  I like Kabalevsky's Piano Concerto No.3.  He was a Soviet-era Russian composer.  The Naxos recording sounds like it was made with some tired old Soviet-era microphones that were left outside a couple of winters. 

mfeust

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Re: GR Research Neo 2X Thoughts
« Reply #17 on: 23 Sep 2008, 08:12 pm »
I visited Lou on Sunday and had the opportunity to hear his Neo 2X and Lou asked that I post my thoughts.

I might as well get it out in the open now. I was very impressed. I am not very good at putting my thoughts in to words so please bear with me.

I thought that the speaker was very neutral and had amazing clarity. I was most impressed with the separation of the instruments and vocals within the soundstage. Each instrument was very well placed and had unbelievable separation from each other. The tonality was very good too I literally thought Eva was brought back and was sitting right in front of me singing my favorite song. Vocals, cymbals, drums, horns, strings they all just sounded so real. Whatever venue the artist was recorded in was very evident on the Neo 2X.

This speaker diffenently needs a sub to accompany it because it will not go very low on it's own which is very understandable. However the rest of the sound spectum is covered almost perfectly.

When I got home I sat down to listen to my 2CH system and I had some thoughts. My system has a very large soundstage but with noware near the separation of the Neo 2X. I don't get many opportunities to listen to live music but it got me wondering if live music has that distinct separation of instruments when you listen as the audience. Now don't get me wrong that was one of the things I liked most of the Neo 2X but I am wondering if this is just the Neo 2X ability to portray what the engineer placed in the recording or is this what a live venue sounds like?

Lou thank you very much for the invite and opportunity to listen to the Neo 2X and I look forward to seeing you soon.

Mark