AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!

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satfrat

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Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #60 on: 22 Sep 2008, 05:18 pm »
Sounds like we have a set of components here that rack themselves? :scratch:

klaus@odyssey

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #61 on: 26 Sep 2008, 12:32 am »
OK,  update:

I did the first REAL  listening test on the Kismet amps / fine tuning(still in a Stratos case.  Finishing them for the show is a real touch and go situation,  aaaargh),  and the amps are

UNFREAKINGBEDEMONIZEDLIEHYYPERBOLICALVA BLE !!!!!!!!

Absolutely awesome.  Love them, love them, love them.

Actually,  with these babies I am going on a mission, and will do something that I promised myself not to do:\

offering generous trade in policies for all older Khartagos and Stratos'.....

More later,

Klaus

DARTH AUDIO

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #62 on: 26 Sep 2008, 01:34 am »
Klaus, will the amp be SS, Tubed, Class D or a Hybrid??

macrojack

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Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #63 on: 26 Sep 2008, 02:06 am »
It's a diesel.

djbnh

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #64 on: 26 Sep 2008, 10:07 am »
OK,  update:

I did the first REAL  listening test on the Kismet amps / fine tuning(still in a Stratos case.  Finishing them for the show is a real touch and go situation,  aaaargh),  and the amps are

UNFREAKINGBEDEMONIZEDLIEHYYPERBOLICALVA BLE !!!!!!!!

Absolutely awesome.  Love them, love them, love them.

Actually,  with these babies I am going on a mission, and will do something that I promised myself not to do:\

offering generous trade in policies for all older Khartagos and Stratos'.....

More later,

Klaus
Tempests, too?

pfradale

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #65 on: 27 Sep 2008, 05:27 am »
offering generous trade in policies for all older Khartagos and Stratos

You are an evil man, Klaus, evillllllll.  :nono:


Tell me more.  :lol:

klaus@odyssey

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #66 on: 29 Sep 2008, 10:23 am »
There are some very valuable lessons that I learned from Symphonic Line, (which, BTW will make a HUGE comeback next year.  Stay tuned and learn about the real out of sight performance of their gear), and probably the single most important one is this:

An evolutionary process makes very good designs exceptional.  That's what SL  did.  Keep in mind that the first amp that Rolf came out with as a SL was the RG 1,  27 years ago !!!!  Still available today.  Just like a 911,  take a good design and perfect the hell out of it.  Then base all amps on this design, and that is the main reason why SL  is so good. (And, also keep in mind that the RG 11 , which is pretty much our amp design, has been based on the RG 1, and has first been introduced in 1986 !!!!!  22 years of heritage !!!!)

Now,  we have this great design, which we use in the Khartagos and Stratos'.  Over the past 2  years I have been fine tuning it in steps,  and lately have been more aggressive about it with the idea of coming out with the Kismet.  I guess that you can ask one of the dozen or so owners of the "glass ceiling",  which was one step to get there.  However, the Kismet is even way beyond this.  It's also a no - compromise and cost no object internal upgrade process.  Just to throw around some numbers here per amplifier:
-internal TS Premium Groneberg's, about $ 180.
-All WBT  top connectors,  around $ 300
- All parts upgrades internally except for the transformer around 110 - 120 % increase in cost
- Case is completely machined. 
- Total labor (without machining time)  per amp when it arrives at the customer is appr. 16 hours +

If you want to recreate the same amp by yourself,  good luck staying anywhere near 3-4 K.  This is not your typical $ 35. digital ICE module that you can buy from China, that's for sure.

Anyway,  I won't have the exact final numbers until the end of the week(machining time is not yet determined),  but I am shooting for around $ 2,200 - 2,400 for the stereo, and around 4.5 k for the monos.
The Kismet preamp, which is also evolutionary in that it is based on the Candela taken way up there is also in the same price range.  Next is the Kismet loudspeaker.  In my opinion, the best product that I have by far are the Lorelei's.  I don't think that even a small percentage of you really realise as to how great of a design this is. Then again,  as a SL design it is 9 k plus in Europe,  so it better be good.  Anyway, with the Kismet speakers we are also going bananas with internal upgrades and a wooden outrigger kind of cabinet externally.  Cost will be $ 3,200,  just a minimal increase.

Finally,  the Kismet phono stage.  This , of course is brand new,  and our in house design.  This is the one product that I wouldn't put under a best bang for the buck definition,  as all other Kismets still are.  this is a unit that you can talk about in absolute terms.  And man oh man,  does it deliver.  Alex can chime in here and give you an overview and some more specs that will make your head spin.  To me,  it is emotional, dead, and I mean black, quiet,  dynamic, and with a superb sound staging.  This unit will be at least $ 2500  as a full size, same chassis set up with an external power supply. 

There might be some more future products that I would like to do, yes.  BUT  at this point I don't envision  any pure digital products at all.  As for myself,  I am not qualified for this, to be honest,  and this is a very crowded market with many great products.  Stick with what you are good at and do it to perfection.  So,  I would also  lose my 800 lbs Gorilla status there and probably couldn't deliver on a bang for the buck promise.   On the other hand,  who knows what could find it' sway into my hands.   Who knows , but right now there are no plans.


So,  I have learned that a meticulous evolutionary path is the way to go.  This is also the case with all of the truly great products that I admire.  Perfection is in the details of fine tuning and tweaking and exploring.  Our ears are still the best instruments to find exactly the sound that one is looking for,  and that's what I tried to do.

Finally,  with a trade in philosophy.  So far,  we have given our customers a full 100 % value for any up-sales.  And as most of you know,  our margins are a fraction of nearly all other manufacturers out there,  even here on AC . (Don't get me started there)  Same thing with the Kismet.  I want to have customers feel that they got a fantastic deal,  and yes, I am aware of the fact that many people still won't look at our gear because of the price points and the perception of performance only in the big buck  segments.  Their loss.  So,  I want to be able to provide this upgrade path for everybody,  but probably have to make this on an individual basis.  However,  you should get between 75 - 100 %  of your investment back.

Hope that this helps out some more here.  IF !!!!! everything goes ok,  I should have the cases ready for the weekend, and I'll try to post some pics.

Late,

Klaus

golfugh

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Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #67 on: 29 Sep 2008, 10:56 am »
Klaus
Thanks for the information!  You make an outstanding product at a very comfortable price point and I applaud your efforts with Kismet.  Of course this means I may need to upgrade my monoblocks and Candela!   aa
Mark

DARTH AUDIO

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #68 on: 29 Sep 2008, 02:57 pm »
Klaus, this info was very helpful. I just have one question. Can you go into detail about the "Upgraded Parts" you will be using in the amps and speakers? I will assume they will also be in your new phono stage. I may have missed this, but what tubes are being used in the phono stage and power supply?

Thanks,

Gary

BikeWNC

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #69 on: 29 Sep 2008, 06:38 pm »
Dang, Klaus.  Guess I had better take a number and give you a call.   :duh:

loki1957

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #70 on: 29 Sep 2008, 08:46 pm »
Quote
Over the past 2  years I have been fine tuning it in steps,  and lately have been more aggressive about it with the idea of coming out with the Kismet.  I guess that you can ask one of the dozen or so owners of the "glass ceiling",  which was one step to get there.  However, the Kismet is even way beyond this. 


Hey Klaus, I just wana be sure, the new Kismet amps are beyond my "glass ceiling" amps? I can't see them getting much better without spending many, many, thousands more dollars. I've been a dyed in the wool tube guy forever. I never thought about going SS. I bought a used pair of Mono Extremes on a whim because of what I've read here. After getting them back from the "glass ceiling" upgrade I was astounded. Out of the box(as they like to say) they sounded great and only got better. Smooth, musical, drive, rhythm. No trace of the whitish sound(my term for lack of a better description), it's what I hear from a lot of inexpensive and not so inexpensive SS amps).

As I mentioned earlier I was a tube guy. I loved the rich glow of the sound from tubes. I've had and still do have  Jadis JA200s(26000.00), JA30s(10000.00) and a Defy 7(9000.00) I'm not bragging about the cost of these things just trying to make a point about how good the Odysseys are.  I don't regret all the time and money spent. The Jadis are great amps. I'm unfortunately one of those people that has to take interests as far as I can. I wouldn't have believed anyone that told me these amps would, could, compete with my old tube gear. Anybody wanna buy an amp or two?

To my ears what the Odyssey's do so much better than the Jadis does is resolution. I'm hearing things in recordings that was buried before. The information was always there but I didn't hear it. The high rez does not come at the expense of the music though. The Odysseys are very musical. 

My point over all is if you're the slightest bit interested in Odyssey, give it a try. I think you'll be happy unless you like the sound of old tubes.

Hey Klaus, where are my speakers?

Thanks

Sorry for rambling but I'm not much a word smith.
« Last Edit: 29 Sep 2008, 10:36 pm by loki1957 »

djbnh

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #71 on: 29 Sep 2008, 11:41 pm »
Klaus,

Thank you for your informative reply, and the hard work of all the Odyssey employees. I look forward to having a chat with the wife-to-be about possible post-wedding (our date is 10/11, coming on soon!) upgrades / purchases. Again, thanks for putting out the information including price and trade-in guidelines.

Peace.

Bigfish

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #72 on: 30 Sep 2008, 02:10 am »
Klaus and or Alex:

Would you please provide more details about the Kismet Preamp LS?  I currently own a Candela and wondering if the new Kismet has a tube rectifier power stage?  Also, will you have these units at RMAF?

Looking forward to meeting you in Denver next week.

Ken

xsb7244

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Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #73 on: 30 Sep 2008, 02:31 am »
Klaus,

you are the man.  a great bang for the buck man.  so no digital, ok.  how about a turntable?  a great bang
for the buck turntable.

Eduardo AAVM

Re: AN UEBER-REFERENCE IS COMING !!!!!!
« Reply #74 on: 30 Sep 2008, 05:34 am »
Damn it ! I see my system is full of Extreme OLD stuff  :duh:, and with this financial crisis   :scratch:


Anyway, I was thinking earlier about this whole KISMET and Klaus' news and I got a good feeling about Odyssey, I felt like if Odyssey was relaunching or refounding itself, and that is only good news for all of us, after almost a decade of the highly succesful Odyssey Project II there is a need to go beyond in a more evident way, and Kismet is the statement for that I guess.