[Springbok10]

I ordered Revelations in April, and sold my Kharma 3.2 FEs,  but got so frustrated waiting, without speakers, that I found and bought a used pair of SP Tech minis to "hold me over". They just arrived, and are unpacked and playing now...............
What a sight they are. Gorgeously finished, absolulely beautiful. WAF is a huge plus. "Cant you just keep these?" "No." "The others are so big."" Sorry." "But these look so good"
Truth is: I would be tempted to "just keep these". They are that good. And beautiful. They replace $20K+ speakers, but are they as good? Maybe - Almost!! At 1/7 the price!! This is unbelievable. Their dynamic range, speed, accuracy and coherence are better than all the monitors I've tried in this acoustically horrible room - 17 X 23 X 15 feet with thick, high furniture - they stand on 24" stands with 4 1/2 " blocks, so they can peer over the furniture. I sold the Kharmas because they couldn't fill the room and were straining. These aren't. I haven't decided yet if the midrange and highs are as sweet as the Kharmas, but are they accurate and dynamic? Bet your ass. Are they coherent? Oh, yes. Are they bargains at close to $3K new? Oh, yes. They significantly better the other monitors I've tried in this room: Merlin TSM-MXe, Proac S1, Talon Signature Ones - not shabby company. This is an incredible achievement, Bob. And some people bought them at less than $1,400 initially. That is un-heard of.  I have Mark Daniel Maximus downstairs, bi-amped with 2 Moscode HR 401s, that I will eagerly compare them with, but right now I'm enjoying them in the exalted place of Kharmas and they don't  fall short. Nuff said.................
If I was more computer-literate, I would post pictures of them in this acoustic nightmare of a room, but someone needs to tell me how. Meanwhile, suffice it to say that I would be happy keeping these Minis..................I can only imagine how much better the Revs will be. Because these are unbelievably good on the eye and the ear. So far I don't even miss the bass that, theoretically, has to be lacking in baby speakers, even though they weigh 38 lbs each..............super-babes, indeed!

System: Meitner EMM CSDS, CDSD,  Shelter 901, SOTA Cosmos IV TT, OL Illustrious arm, EAR 324 Phono preamp,  Atma-Sphere MP-1, Atma-Sphere MA-2 (220 WPC, Class A tubes), Gabriel Gold Revelation ICs, AZ Double-barrel SC, Wolff, Lessloss, Everglide Ultra-Khan PCs.

[lonewolfny42]

Springbok10.......

....I can only imagine how much better the Revs will be.

Their even better....well worth the investment....

Enjoy you Mini's.........

                         Chris

PS....Which finish did you get ? Thanks....

[RodMCV]

Hay there ,

Sounds like SP TECH has hit another Gusher!

[Double Ugly]

If I was more computer-literate, I would post pictures of them in this acoustic nightmare of a room, but someone needs to tell me how.

Congrats on getting a pair of "The Deal of the Century" speakers, Springbok.  They're amazing for what they are, but make no mistake, they are *NOT* Revelations! 

You may have to wait a while before you're in a position to understand what I'm talking about, but imagine the Minis with half the already incredibly low distortion.  Now to complete the image, try to imagine having a proprietary transmission line bass module that produces the best, most realistic bass many of us have ever heard, and then extend it well into the upper teens.

Trust me... it won't take long for the differences to become readily apparent, especially if you're driving them with a lot of good, clean power.   

BTW, you can click here for instructions on posting pictures.  In the meantime, is this the picture you wanted to include?



If not, and if you don't understand the instructions I linked, let me know and I will send you a PM with my e-mail address.  I'll upload the picture you send to my gallery and post it for you.

[Springbok10]

Thanks, Double!! Very kind of you. Yeah, that's the room, but you need to see how pretty the Minis are....I'll try to upload them.

[Aether Audio]

Springbok10,

Thanks!    Glad to hear that the Minis are working for you. 

I haven't decided yet if the midrange and highs are as sweet as the Kharmas...

There are a couple of factors that come in to play with regards to that issue.  First... seeing that the distortion generated by the Minis (and all of our stuff) is so low, it is *possible* that you might be hearing a little more of what the upstream electronics are contributing - both good and bad.  Experimentation with other components and cabling *may* actually produce results equaling of even surpassing those obtained from the Kharmas. 

We do have a bit of experience in that regard and Karsten can tell you what he has discovered in the various iterations of his system.  The fact is that time and again it has been proven that the cleaner and more pristine (high speed and low distortion) the signal path is, the smoother, more detailed, revealing and musical the presentation from our speakers seems to become.  This is in contrast to the results and type of sound emerging from systems based on the "euphonic" colorations some seek after in their equipment.

The second issue that may limit what you can achieve with the Minis is unfortunately the consequence of their retail price.  Seeing that they use the same exact tweeter and next smaller version of the woofer used in our other systems, their potential was always greater than we could afford to provide - at the $2,495.00 price point.  In essence, we were forced to build them using moderately priced crossover components.  "Moderate" in comparison to what one *CAN* spend anyway.  Then again, the price of one good Audio Note capacitor can cost more than the price of a pair of the Minis themselves. 

We would never advocate going to such extremes, but there are lower cost alternatives that are still well beyond what could affordably be included in the price of the Minis.  On the other hand...were the Minis to have been built using components from the next higher tier or two in capacitor grade options... who knows?  Maybe "out of the box" the Minis would have out-performed the Kharmas.  I don't know for certain, but I suspect that given their price, one could almost "bet the farm" that Kharma used capacitors of such caliber in their product.  Of course... at 7 times the price... one would hope so?

Enjoy!
-Bob

PS.  Well... now at least you have a relatively *small* idea as to what to expect from your Revelations.  aa That's good for us too as maybe now we don't have to worry as much about any resulting liability with regards to "induced heart failure."

[Aether Audio]

Guys,

For your convenience, here's a  PFO review link for the Kharmas that Springbok10 formerly owned and was comparing the Minis to:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/kharma3.2.htm

I was somewhat familiar with them, but didn't quite realize the company that the Timepiece Minis are keeping this days.  Folks are calling the Kharma 3.2 FEs "the best 2-way speakers in the world."    The things even use pure silver inductors!!   I couldn't find what capacitors they're using but I can only imagine!!! 

Geez... maybe we should raise the price? 

-Bob 

[Frank S.]

Springbok10- Congratulations on your "interim" speakers.  I am in no way surprised by your comments.  My Continuum 2.5 MKIIIs replaced the $70,000 (retail) Evolution Acoustics MM3s and I have never looked back.  They are better in every regard.  My Theta Gen VIII Series II DAC is fully broken in, and I've recently nailed the set up of the 2.5s in my room and the sound is the best I've had. 

You are going to blown away when you get the Revs. I've found the more critical you are of setting the speakers up and optimizing your other gear, the SP Tech speakers will reward you in spades. They truly reveal all that comes before them.

Way to go Bob! 

[Springbok10]

The more I listen to them, the more impressed I am. I changed speaker cables when I sold the Kharmas (to finance the Revs!) - Purist Dominus was replaced by a bi-wire pair of Acoustic Zen Double barrel. This probably accounts for some difference in the mellowness of the high end - in fact, I think the Dominus rolled off the highs a little. I first played Isaac Stern playing Beethoven's Violin Concerto - highs a little thin, slightly glaring; then played the same piece, with Perlman. Voila! Glare gone. Sweet highs. So I think, as Bob says, I'm hearing the difference in recordings more accurately. I played both of these on the Kharmas and they sounded much more similar to each other. Point made, Bob!
The interesting aspect to me is that the Minis fill the space in my 5,000 cubic ft nightmare of a room effortlessly, and the Kharmas sounded strained at the same db level (I used a meter - 85-95 db). None of my other monitors did this. Even the Merlins. Why do you think that is, Bob? The tweeters are at ear level.
It is spooky that these small speakers can challenge very seriously the likes of the Kharma, but they really do - this is not hyperbole, but fact.
My only fear with the Revs is that the placement restrictions I have will limit them. I have the Minis 27" from the rear wall, but my wife has reminded me repeatedly that I promised only 6" - otherwise they take over the room. I had to measure the left speaker's distance exactly to match the right - when I was off 2", the soundstage merged right, and the snapped in perfectly when they were equal.
So, will I still get decent soundstaging 6" from the rear walls, Bob?
If not, I'll have to fight for my rights, but I need notice to prepare the way:)

[Double Ugly]

I have the Minis 27" from the rear wall, but my wife has reminded me repeatedly that I promised only 6" - otherwise they take over the room.

6"?  Wow... and I thought my 12-18" was bad. 

Have you figured out how to load pictures to your gallery?

[Springbok10]

The more I listen to them, the more impressed I am. I changed speaker cables when I sold the Kharmas (to finance the Revs!) - Purist Dominus was replaced by a bi-wire pair of Acoustic Zen Double barrel. This probably accounts for some difference in the mellowness of the high end - in fact, I think the Dominus rolled off the highs a little. I first played Isaac Stern playing Beethoven's Violin Concerto - highs a little thin, slightly glaring; then played the same piece, with Perlman. Voila! Glare gone. Sweet highs. So I think, as Bob says, I'm hearing the difference in recordings more accurately. I played both of these on the Kharmas and they sounded much more similar to each other. Point made, Bob!
The interesting aspect to me is that the Minis fill the space in my 5,000 cubic ft nightmare of a room effortlessly, and the Kharmas sounded strained at the same db level (I used a meter - 85-95 db). None of my other monitors did this. Even the Merlins. Why do you think that is, Bob? The tweeters are at ear level.
It is spooky that these small speakers can challenge very seriously the likes of the Kharma, but they really do - this is not hyperbole, but fact.
My only fear with the Revs is that the placement restrictions I have will limit them. I have the Minis 27" from the rear wall, but my wife has reminded me repeatedly that I promised only 6" - otherwise they take over the room. I had to measure the left speaker's distance exactly to match the right - when I was off 2", the soundstage merged right, and the snapped in perfectly when they were equal.
So, will I still get decent soundstaging 6" from the rear walls, Bob?
If not, I'll have to fight for my rights, but I need notice to prepare the way:)

[Springbok10]

You can tell I'm new on AC - I just posted a blank - was trying to get a quote from my last post - it was confusing, so let me clarify: I said "none of the other monitors did this" I meant none of them filled the room like the Minis, not none of them strained like the Kharmas - they all did.

Double Ugly, your instructions were clear. I just have to take the pictures. While you're at it, tell me how to make the blue quote thingy:)

Thanks,
Denis

[opnly bafld]

 While you're at it, tell me how to make the blue quote thingy:)

Thanks,
Denis

After I click on the "quote" tab I go inside the [/quote] at the bottom and backspace to edit, making sure I stop before the ["quote author=blah blah etc. etc. numbers..."] at the top.

Lin

[Russell Dawkins]

Denis,
If the Minis are in the same position as the Kharmas in the photo above, you might well consider toeing them in rather radically to reduce the strength of the reflection from the furniture/walls to each side of the speakers, not to speak of widening the sweet spot. If the 6 inch rule was established with the Karmas, you could argue that the Minis could be further into the room and the front baffle would not be any further in than the Kharmas at 6". That might gain you a valuable 8"!

Seems to me all you then need are a pair of slim subs to replace the stands and complete the package. Too bad nobody seems to make them. The only subs I know of that are designed with this intention were designed to mate with the Rogers/Harbeth LS35A.

Maybe Bob should design a pair of sub woofer/stands that fit the bottom dimensions and height requirements of the Mini. I found the Timepiece very easy to mate with a sub, and I usually am not even close to satisfied with any attempted mating of most speakers and subs.
Russell

[mcullinan]

The Minis are on FIRE. Not literally, calm down Chris 
Keep the reviews coming.. and get those pics up!!
Mike

[konut]

Maybe Bob should design a pair of sub woofer/stands that fit the bottom dimensions and height requirements of the Mini. 

This is an intriguing possibility. I've always been a fan of sealed bass or subwoofers, but the way Bob designs and implements his products, I could be convinced otherwise. Besides, I've ALWAYS wanted stereo subs. How about it Bob, any chance of this happening?

[billc]

Well, since there seems to be so much excitement generated for the Mini's in recent posts, I thought I might add a quasi-update on an experiment I tried with my pair.

Just for fun, over the weekend, I decided to hook the Mini's up to an 805-tube-based SET integrated amp (Chinese origin) from one of my second systems.  Now the 805 ain't no ordinary SET tube.  It generates about 40 watts per channel, and the amp requires huge transformers and weights about 80 lbs.  The 805-driver tube is a 300B.  Anyway, back to the story...

I also decided to test the setup with the Allison Krause + Union Station Live SACD.  Now we all know from the many reports that the Mini's have fantastic micro and macro dynamics (i.e, I call it olympic-level "jump" factor!). 

I put on CD#2 with great live instrumentation and many of the old standards.  WOW !      

The SET amp has a very immediate quality, which together with the Allison Krause band, playing live, just turned the Mini's into a Live Performance.  From other parts of the house one could hardly tell it was not live.  Sitting in front of the speakers, with eyes closed, you really had the totally immersive sense that you were at the concert.  Bass, which is a bit weak on this CD held its own, and sometimes reached out to grab you.  Midrange instrumentation was just "right there" - touchable. 

I know Bob prefers solid state to drive his Mini's, but this was the first time I had tried them on an SET-type amp (granted a very powerful SET amp), and because I had not heard any reports of use of the Mini's with high power (845, or 805 tube) SETs, I was not expecting much.  But - color me surprised.  Unbelievable.  My wife even came in to say how real it sounded from the next room.  That does not happen often.

These speakers naturally have such a live sound, that when they play a well recorded live concert, probably regardless of the amplification, well, just watch your chin.  You don't want it hitting the floor too hard !   

Bill C

[juanitox]

Maybe Bob should design a pair of sub woofer/stands that fit the bottom dimensions and height requirements of the Mini. 

This is an intriguing possibility. I've always been a fan of sealed bass or subwoofers, but the way Bob designs and implements his products, I could be convinced otherwise. Besides, I've ALWAYS wanted stereo subs. How about it Bob, any chance of this happening?

bob already make it , it's call TP 3.0  there is still life at 20hz 

[ooheadsoo]

Wow, that cherry TP3.0 looks absolutely amazing every time I see it.  I almost wish I had chosen that finish.

Don't forget the Revelation-mini, which is the TP3.0 plus revelation t-line bass, which I think Bob said was roughly -3db anechoic to 25hz with a 2nd order roll off.

[juanitox]

Wow, that cherry TP3.0 looks absolutely amazing every time I see it.  I almost wish I had chosen that finish.

Don't forget the Revelation-mini, which is the TP3.0 plus revelation t-line bass, which I think Bob said was roughly -3db anechoic to 25hz with a 2nd order roll off.

  are you mad??  i don't want to make collapse the walls of my living room
with that sort of monster 

just for information this brand of amplifier are a perfect match with the T.P 3.0
solid state class A sounding very liquid and soft.

http://www.electrocompaniet.com/products_power-amp.html
could be a serious option for the Mini too.