[pgastone]

Hello,

I read the "next tt" posts with interest.
Well, I recently had a Mitchell Hydraulic Reference with a SME 3009 and Blue Point Special Evo III assembled after I bought it years ago.  I bought a Bellari phono to run it through my system.  The system itself is:
ZU Druids + Mini Method sub
Mastersound Compact 845 SET integrated; this replaced a Cayin 50t which I still own.
Musical Fidelity X-Ray v3 cd player + X-10 v3 tube buffer

My wife asked me how it sounded.
I replied "like music"!

Is the bass as good? no
Is the soundstage as good or are the instruments as well defined? no

On any individual "audiophile" attribute my vinyl set-up (and I am well aware of the drawbacks of the vinylequipment in question)does not come even close to my cd playback; BUT overall it just sounds more like the real thing- I guess it's that organic stuff peopletalk about.

So, know I want more....also because, for reason I have not figured out, I have to really crank the volume on mastresound to get any umpff out of the vinyl playback and this is with the Bellari volume all the way up; also, on quiet passages of classical music there is a lot of background noise (I suspect the age and technology of the Mitchell starts to show).

Anyway, unless you all have some brilliant solution for what I currently have (would very interested in suggestions) I am ready to take the plunge for a new set-up- need to some suggestions for an easy plug n play for turntable, cartridge, and phono (basically because I am not experience enough to get into a complicated set-up). 
My budget would be be some $1k-$2k for turntable cartridge combo (used) and then some $500 or so for phono.

I am all ears as I am just starting to go down this path.....

[eric the red]

the bellari sucks in my opinion-get something that says SLEE somewhere on the box

[Ericus Rex]

I'd say spend most of your budget on a great cartridge.  A great cartridge on a decent player will sound better than more equally priced table/ cartridge.  I had a Blue point a while back.  While it was good for the money I was never thrilled by it.  Got a (used) Benz M2 wood body and the air and bass was astounding.  I never thought I could get such satisfying bass out of vinyl, and the only thing that changed was the cartridge.

[pgastone]

Ok got it....
Swap out the Bellari.....I just bought the bellari as a quick solution so happy to try another phono and I have  been looking into a Graham Slee.
On the carttridge I had started looking at a Dynavector 10x or 20x....I will look into to Benz.
So you guys guys think I should stick witht the table? My impression that it is rather noisy- on those low level passages I can definitely hear the table motor in the background.
If I were to swap it out anythiing you recommend?
I have lookd at lot's of option like VPI, Music Hall, etc but I have to admit that the contrarian in me kind wants to give the technics a whirl (but I am really ignorant on vinyl so that's just a whim- but I have heard good things)>

[twitch54]

I'd say spend most of your budget on a great cartridge.  A great cartridge on a decent player will sound better than more equally priced table/ cartridge. 

While this can be true the most important thing to remember with vinyl playback is....synergy (yes I know a overused word at times, but definetly applies here).

The table, tonearm, cartridge, phono-pre must all work in unison. The matching of cartridge to tonearm (compliance) is important, cartridge and phono-pre with respect to load, gain, etc all equally important to achive the best sonic results. Table location, isolation, etc.....all important stuff.

While I agree the cartridge is the 'signature' piece, attention to all of the above will provide the best 'signed document'  !

[lcrim]

Before spending any money, a few things occurred to me.  Which Series 3009 tonearm do you have?  The Series I & II are different animals and probably have enough mass to control a lower compliance cartridge while the Series III is a low mass arm that is best suited to a high compliance cartridge.  I had a Series III for a while but could never find the parts for the hydraulic damping tray, which is very desirable to damp resonances.  I don't think the Series I came with the little arm and pulley with a tiny weight attached with a fish line to set anti-skate but I think that setup may still be available @ http://www.flatearthaudio.com/  in Connecticutt.
I also would get a record cleaning machine if you don't yet have one.  Also setup is very critical in vinyl playback.  Lots of information is available online but finding someone that can show you how is of even more value.
The phonostage you have is pretty questionable quality and I would replace it.  The Cambridge 640p is very nice sounding and cheap @ $169 and would allow the use of LOMC carts should you decide to go in that direction.  I would hesitate to recommend any new cartridge until you know which model SME 3009 you have.
Good luck and let us know how it worked out.

[pgastone]

Very helpful thx.

Twitch, I had an inkling that synergy was indeed the key which is why I was fishing for some thoughts on an overall "system" within my budget.


As for the SME 3009 I am pretty certain it is the series II (with line and sinker ani skating)....

[pgastone]

Sme arm confirmed as 3009 II....and most likely "improved version"

[TONEPUB]

I agree with Twitch.  It all has to work together and spending disproportionately
in one area over another really ends up compromising performance.

When we had the Continuum in for review earlier this year, we tried an experiment
where we put identical Dynavector XV-1s cartridges ($4500 ea) on the Continuum and
the Technics SL-1200, identical Shure M97's on both tables and compared it to a
Rega P3 with some Groovetracer tweeks and a Dynavector 17D2 (the control group)

An Aesthetix Rhea was used as a constant because it had three inputs.

Putting the low res cart on the continuum and the high res cart on the technics table
was not as pleasant to listen to as the medium grade table/cart combination. Both just
sounded kind of muddy.

Food for thought.

[pgastone]

Sorry for delay but work has been crazy.

I don't know from my own experience since I am just getting started in vinyl- I would be very interested in hearing about some synergistic solutions somewhere around $1500-$2000 (including or excluding a pno stage).

I am absolutdly convinced that a succesful system is about all of it working together well

[SET Man]

I'd say spend most of your budget on a great cartridge.  A great cartridge on a decent player will sound better than more equally priced table/ cartridge.  I had a Blue point a while back.  While it was good for the money I was never thrilled by it.  Got a (used) Benz M2 wood body and the air and bass was astounding.  I never thought I could get such satisfying bass out of vinyl, and the only thing that changed was the cartridge.

Hey!

     Yup, I went from BPS "EVO III" to Benz Micro "ACE" HO version and the ACE HO is much better overall and it give me a better sense of flow to the sound than the BPS EVO III.

    The Dynavector are very popular too but I've never heard them in my own system. So, can't comment on that.

   If you must stick to High Output MC cart than you should put the ACE HO on your list. One day maybe I will move up to the upper level woody Benz carts

   Oh! BTW... if you are planning to use MC cart low or high if possible make sure that the phono pre that you are going to buy have some resistive loading options on it. But if you are DIYer you could just pop it open and change the loading resistor if there is none.

   Good luck and have fun.

Take care,
Buddy
   

[pgastone]

ANy thoughts on this table?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200241877168&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010

[TheChairGuy]

ANy thoughts on this table?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200241877168&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010

Buy it only with the intention to get the VPI SDS....unregulated (any) drive mechanism is rarely a step in the right direction with vinyl. 25 years of CD/Redbook have taught us all a few things to expect....among them, unwavering pitch (something a TT, even with a massive platter, cannot get right without a regulated speed mechanism).

But, when you add it in...it takes you out of your budget (waaay out)

I'm not a musician, nor was blessed/cursed with perfect pitch...but, the 'wow' induced problems of unregulated motor drives on TT's grinds on me now.

Enjoy - John

[BobM]

ANy thoughts on this table?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200241877168&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010

That looks really nice, but don't expect it to go for the $1000 that it is currently bid. More like double+ that.

Bob

[pgastone]

Yeah- I suspect that turnatble is going to go for a lot more.

Got it on regulating a tt motor...so in any turntable i look at (possibly with the exception of a technics 1200) i should also start thinking of adding this.

[TheChairGuy]

Yeah- I suspect that turnatble is going to go for a lot more.

Got it on regulating a tt motor...so in any turntable i look at (possibly with the exception of a technics 1200) i should also start thinking of adding this.

Actually, with the exception of any quartz-locked, servo, direct drive table (as the SL-1200 is)....they are regulated by their very design and the spindle is part of the motor (so speed regulation is fairly exacting)

Of course if that was the only thing that mattered in turntablism...then everyone would own a direct drive.  But, it isn't...so you end up yo-yo'ing between different turntables until you find one (hopefully) that fits your budget and sonic goals. 

You can get belt drive decks with good enough speed regulation (as long as you're not blessed/cursed with perfect pitch)....but they tend to be > US$2000 (more than your budget as you stated)unless you're handy and can DIY something.

John

[Scottdazzle]

ANy thoughts on this table?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200241877168&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010

The VPI table looks great but I'd be worried about shipment. The seller is not a hifi dealer or the owner, so the quality of the packaging could be very iffy. Caveat emptor.

[Wayner]

ANy thoughts on this table?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200241877168&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010

Buy it only with the intention to get the VPI SDS....unregulated (any) drive mechanism is rarely a step in the right direction with vinyl. 25 years of CD/Redbook have taught us all a few things to expect....among them, unwavering pitch (something a TT, even with a massive platter, cannot get right without a regulated speed mechanism).

But, when you add it in...it takes you out of your budget (waaay out)

I'm not a musician, nor was blessed/cursed with perfect pitch...but, the 'wow' induced problems of unregulated motor drives on TT's grinds on me now.

Enjoy - John

While I somewhat agree with John, I don't think he has ever played in a band. The direct drive may play with steady pitch, but the band didn't. That is the one small flaw with the statement that a belt drive can't have steady pitch. Hard too if the source isn't. Well, unless it's totally computer music from a digital source.

Just someting to think about.

Wayner 

[ricmon]

You can get belt drive decks with good enough speed regulation (as long as you're not blessed/cursed with perfect pitch)....but they tend to be > US$2000 (more than your budget as you stated)unless you're handy and can DIY something.

John

The Music Hall and Pro-Ject belt driven TT's either come with speed control or can be added via the Speed box for $120.00.  I'm sure there's one in ether's line that will definitely fit your budget.

Ric

[woodsyi]

Wow. I am all aflutters.   

For belt drives, doug s. has shown me these lab grade voltage regulated power supplies that are good at controlling the motor speed.  Good with other sources, like squeezebox,  that run on DC power as well.  You have to look for the unit with right voltage and current capacity.  This particular one will be fine with 12 vdc motors. http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-Agilent-6286A-DC-Power-Supply-20V-10A_W0QQitemZ250276486814QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250276486814&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A15&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318