SongTower and Cardas Speaker Placement?

elee532 · « **on:** 20 Jul 2008, 06:54 pm »

Anyone have any experience or opinion on this formula for SongTower placement:

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring=Room+Setup

If I recall correctly, this seem quite a bit different than the location suggestions that came with my SongTowers.

DMurphy · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Jul 2008, 07:27 pm »

That link just takes me to the dreaded Unknown Zone. Must be an error someplace.

Papajin · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Jul 2008, 08:26 pm »

The link works fine for me here. See if you can get to the main Cardas page (http://www.cardas.com). If not, then likely the problem is with your isp or machine.

DMurphy · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Jul 2008, 09:38 pm »

Well, I can't get the home page or the placement link. My machine is fine, and I can reach every other site I've tried, so I dunno. Sure you don't have a magic machine? Or perhaps the Salk site is soooooooo popular that we've just overloaded the Cardas server. Right. That's the ticket.

rlee8394 · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Jul 2008, 10:29 pm »

Link works fine for me.

Ron

elee532 · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Jul 2008, 10:49 pm »

Here's a link to a PDF version of the page: www.cardas.com/pdf/roomsetup.pdf. This work any better?

Here's the gist of the article:

The distance from the center of the woofer face to the side walls is: Room Width times .276 (RW x .276).

The distance from the center of the woofer face to the wall behind the speaker is: Room Width times .447 (RW x .447).

DMurphy · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jul 2008, 11:10 pm »

Nope--that just takes me back to the zone of the unknown. Maybe Verizon Fios has it in for Cardas. In any event, I haven't seen those equations before. I would be interested to see how they're derived. Maybe I can access the site from work tomorrow. During the noon hour, of course.

Papajin · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Jul 2008, 12:44 am »

All I know is that they want me to have my speakers 6 feet into the room and that's just not gonna happen!

Kris · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jul 2008, 04:22 am »

This formula is accurate within 1"-2" from my own preferred speaker positioning, after countless hours of experimenting. Large and small speakers sound great in that spot, and magic sliders solve the problem of moving them back and forth from the wall.

JLM · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Jul 2008, 10:12 am »

I've used the Cardias prescribed set up for years with good success in rooms 12 - 13 feet wide.

From the above discussion the next step in the Cardias set up is to place your listening spot in an equalateral triangle to the speakers. The effect is nearfield listening, something between headphone and far field. With the right recordings, I see lots of "eye pops" from first timers as images snap into place and they understand what stereo is capable of.

Nearfield helps to minimize room effects at higher frequencies and allows for maximum depth of image.

I aim the speakers to cross just behind the listening spot, but just in front might be best. I go with the just behind option as I spend lots of time at the desk that sits straight behind the listening spot.

BrianM · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Jul 2008, 02:11 pm »

Also maybe good to avoid the misconception that the equilateral triangle setup would shrink the sweet spot because of the increased directionality. I've found it tends to do the opposite, because of the reduced side reflections I guess. So it also sounds better from further away to me, but of course best when I'm sitting nearfield. (ymmv)

Nuance · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 03:25 am »

Any other opinions on this method? I've got a weird rectangular room that's about 12x25 with an opening to a smaller 10x12 room next to the right front speaker. I'm looking for the best setup method for my soon to be shipping Song Tower's. Should I get a slider wall to cut off that 10x12 space while listening to music?

Thanks!

mdfoy · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 02:40 pm »

Nuance,

Where would you get a slider wall? I have the same configuration in my room, and was looking at the office cubicle wall things.

fsimms · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 03:00 pm »

Quote

Should I get a slider wall to cut off that 10x12 space while listening to music?

I am not an expert, but I would think that the opening would be similar to an absorption panel. So, if your room permits, then buying an absorption panel and putting on the opposite wall might be a better solution.

Bob

Nuance · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Aug 2008, 01:17 pm »

Quote from: mdfoy on 30 Jul 2008, 02:40 pm

Nuance,

Where would you get a slider wall? I have the same configuration in my room, and was looking at the office cubicle wall things.

I don't know yet; just kind of thinking out loud.

One of those office cubicle false walls would work well I bet.

Quote from: fsimms on 30 Jul 2008, 03:00 pm

Quote
Should I get a slider wall to cut off that 10x12 space while listening to music?

I am not an expert, but I would think that the opening would be similar to an absorption panel. So, if your room permits, then buying an absorption panel and putting on the opposite wall might be a better solution.

Bob

That's certainly an option. You think that would be the better route then?

martyo · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Aug 2008, 04:53 pm »

You will find other speaker placement formulas too. They are all suggestions. Speakers disperse sound differently. Brian and JLM prefer nearfield. Here is my set-up for the HT3's. It's drawn to scale, and faded, but the blue rectangles on the wall are GIK 242 and 244 panels. The part of the "L" shaped room where I'm listening is approx.22-1/2' x 13' wide. I'm 12 feet from the speakers and I use very little toe-in. Experiment and have fun and see what you prefer because most of this is about preferences.

fsimms · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Aug 2008, 06:00 am »

Quote

That's certainly an option. You think that would be the better route then?

As I said, I am not an expert. If your decor permits, it would be a simpler solution. You may be able to leave it up and not have to keep moving it in and out.

Bob

JLM · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Aug 2008, 11:27 am »

"Domestic reality" may not allow for the Cardias perscribed nearfield setup all the time, but should be well worth playing around with when you have the house to yourself.

Rules of thumb to hold to:
1. Smaller rooms need more treatment
2. Bass absorption can go anywhere, but are most effective in corners
3. Mid/treble absorption have to be located at first reflection points.

An alternative setup would be to "skew everything" to keep first reflections at least 11 feet long (so the ear can "ignor" them. Try to balance the overall left and right channel reflectance. To address bass absorption needs, consider bass absorbing soffits that can be blended into the decor.

Nuance · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Aug 2008, 03:01 am »

Here is a little model of my room. It's actually 22.5 feet long and 14 feet wide, so pay no attention to the measurements. Also, I cannot reverse the setup because this is a basement and there is a bathroom behind the listening position in the left corner and the basement steps are behind the listening position in the right corner. Hope that helps.

laserman · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Aug 2008, 11:57 pm »

Hey Brandon,

How far out are the ST's going to be from the front wall?

How close is the L speaker going to be to the sidewall?

How far apart are you planning on having the speakers?

Have a sub or will be using a sub in the near future?

Can you tell us a little more about the table in front of the L speaker? Height, composition, how far will it be from the front of the speaker, and can it be relocated without WAF approval?

Do you have any sound treatment panels? If so, where are they located? If not, would you consider getting some?

Geez, and I thought my 30' x 13' had issues...

That's it for now.

Peace and later,
Lou