Mark Shifter and VMPS

Brian Cheney · « **on:** 4 Nov 2003, 02:28 pm »

In the next six weeks Mark Shifter will begin production of RM 40 cabinets in his facility near Shanghai.

The question of exporting American jobs needs to be addressed here. All VMPS cabinets through the RM 2 will continue to be manufactured by VIP Woodworks in Apple Valley, CA. The RM/X will be produced exclusively by Dorne Dibble's Subextreme woodshop in Oakland CA. Up until last June all RM 40 cabinets were produced by Sal Salgado's Sierra Wood in Fontana CA. However, after 15 years Sal has closed his shop and I have been unable to find a domestic supplier willing to make these very large, heavy boxes. Without Mart Shifter we would not have any more RM40's, or the ability to make big speakers at all (Dorne being totally occupied with the RM/X, and VIP unwilling to manufacturer our bigger speakers). Based on the preliminary quotes from Mark the RM 40 pricing will remain the same, but finish quality should improve, particularly Mark's handpolished black lacquer piano finish over our current laminate. There will also be a real rosewood from plantation-grown trees--no forests will be cut down just to make a few pretty cabinets. Assembly and testing of all VMPS product continues in our San Pablo CA plant.

VMPS and AV123 retain their separate identities but will collaborate on future projects.

Dunedain · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 02:47 pm »

Thanks for the update, Brian. Given the situation with the availability of RM40 cabinets,
you did what you had to do.

Obviously the RM40 can't be allowed to no longer be made simply because no one can be found
to make the cabinets.

And I'm sure many others will be very happy to hear that all other cabinets will continue
to be made here in the U.S.

rosconey · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 03:10 pm »

glad to see a reasonable explanation

hope things work out

Dmason · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 03:15 pm »

I personally want to acknowledge Mr Cheney's sensibilities as a businessman, and also his sensitivities as a denizen of this small planet, for taking the time to apprise us all of his own personal decisions, and in doing so, setting an example; You had no obligation to do so. This country needs alot more people like yourself. I would also like to thank him for taking the time, and having the interest in vivisecting our beloved ZR amplifier on the test bench to see what the science looked like. That was an education unto itself.

Now if you would just publish those specs on the Dipole...you have a prospect waiting...or PM me and sell me on the idea of using them as two channel monitors.

meilankev · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 03:34 pm »

Brian,

Just out of curiosity, who will manufacture your speakers larger than RM40s (e.g. FF-1, FF-3, Super Towers, et al)?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

As for the collaboration between Brian and Mark, I have been reading posts that pretty much say:

"A match made in Heaven!! VMPS sonics with AV123 cabinetry!! Wow, I can't wait!!"

The implication is that Rocket speakers are "all show and no go", and VMPS is just the opposite. I even read one post on AV123 where someone had never heard of VMPS, and wanted information. The responder stated (and I paraphrase):

"Great sounding speakers, but not very visually attractive".

Well, I have finally gotten to hear (and see) a Rocket system anchored by 750 mains. My take?

Well, first off, the AV123 speakers I heard sound better than people want to give them credit for. While I understand why people are more enamored of their HT performance, 2-channel capability was very high.

And VMPS cabinetry (at least on my "Cherry Flambe" RM40s) are better than people want to give them credit for. Again, prior to my ordering RM40s, I had auditioned mega-buck speakers by B&W, Thiel, Gershman Acoustics, Sonus Faber, Eggleston Works, and Vandersteen. Only the Sonus Faber were noticiably more attractive than the RM40s in my listening room.

Don't get me wrong, the Rocket 750s are very attractive - particularly at their price point. And I freely admit I have never seen any VMPS speakers other than my own. Possibly I just got lucky.

So while both companies will benefit from this joint venture, I'm skeptical of the extent. If you think that Mark is some "babe in the woods" needing the guiding hand of Brian, I think you underestimate Mark's talent. He seems to be pretty knowledgeable as it is. However, those who envision the cabinetry of RM40s being hacked out by some Jethro Bodine character are equally uninformed. I truly doubt that the RM40s will suddenly appeal to some new audience who currently hate their looks, but are just waiting to be mesmerized by the cabinetry wizadry of AV123.

Granted, I have seen exactly "one" system by each company, which hardly makes me an expert.

Kevin

Andrikos · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 03:38 pm »

sorry, double post.

Andrikos · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 03:43 pm »

Thank you Brian for the update.
You are what's needed in this country, the steadfast determination to contain the job losses in this country (3 million and counting...).
Also, your environmental concerns are very touching.
You are a true man who is standing up for his principles rather than lining his pockets with green. After all, it's only money...

I cannot wait to see the results of this cooperation with MLS.
Are there any future products under consideration as of now?
Something, say, with a higher WAF than a sonic monolith?

jqp · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 03:54 pm »

Brian -

I may have missed this, but what about the cabinets for the New Original and New Larger Subs?

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 04:02 pm »

All subwoofer cabinets are made by Bud Bailey at VIP Woodworks in Apple Valley CA.

jqp · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 04:13 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

All subwoofer cabinets are made by Bud Bailey at VIP Woodworks in Apple Valley CA.

Thanks!

jgubman · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 06:09 pm »

Are people (ok, me) who have new RM40 orders in waiting for Shifter to ramp up production before our orders are filled?

No biggie either way, just curious.

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 06:21 pm »

Brian,
Any worked-out thoughts about an exchange program for trading-in the old cabinets for the new RM40 cabinets?

Have you worked out the pricing schematics?

In the future, will you offer other RM40 cabinet design & colors?....

John Casler · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 06:55 pm »

Quote from: jgubman

Are people (ok, me) who have new RM40 orders in waiting for Shifter to ramp up production before our orders are filled?

No biggie either way, just curious.

Hi J.

I might jump in and answer that.

I think you could wait for the first New MLS Cabinets to land if you choose to, but the finish you selected (Cherry Flambe) is not currently on the "manufacturing manifest".

Initially the finishes will be Piano Black and RoseWood, so we would have to adjust your finish selection.

While I don't know this for a fact, I would suspect that the first cabinets to land, may be at least 6-8 weeks away.

While Mark might be able to jump in and offer a more accurate estimate.

Since I anticipate a slight "rush" for these first cabinets, those who are sure they want one of the new VMPS RM40s, should contact Brian or their dealer and place their order.

Keep in mind that the Holiday and Christmas Season, and the preparation for this years CES, may slightly affect availability.

Stay Tuned...

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 07:01 pm »

Currently we only have stock in piano black laminate RM 40's.

Since we have orders for both cherry and dark oak on hand, I looked up a local cabinetmaker who has agreed to strip the finish off completed cabinets and reveneer to order.

Pete and Dino were trained in Italy, have 25 years experience, and do fabulous work. I saw some of their custom cherry cabinetry and know they will make me and VMPS customers happy with their finish quality. I expect to have redone cabinets from them in the next 10 days. No extra charge. This is a temporary fix since reveneering costs about as much as entire new cabinets.

We will order other finishes from Mark once we have samples from him. Time to make your preferences known!

jgubman · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 07:02 pm »

Thanks for the fast response John. Let me know if I should just email you directly in the future w/ these questions.

Personally, as long as the sonics are the same, I don't really care if I have a Shifter-built cabinet or not.

If the Shifter cabinets are more reinforced or have more internal dampening or have some "secret" magical sound dust, yeah I'd rather wait the 2-3 months. Oh yeah, if they're significantly cheaper, I'd wait also, but I've already paid (and I'm happy w/ the price I paid!), so that's probably not a consideration.

I guess my real question was if Brian had already ordered/taken possession of the cabinet for my RM40. If so, cool. If not, I just wanted a
"heads up" that there was going to be a 2-3 month delay.

Like I said, no biggie.

jgubman · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 07:05 pm »

Thanks Brian.

My preference is for the best sounding cabinet, but I'm also a patient guy.

So, if the Shifter cabinets will sound better, I can wait.

If the reveneering puts you out money, I can wait.

If the train has already left the station w/ my RM40 order, that's fine too.

John Casler · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 07:14 pm »

Quote from: jgubman

Thanks Brian.

My preference is for the best sounding cabinet, but I'm also a patient guy.

So, if the Shifter cabinets will sound better, I can wait.

If the reveneering puts you out money, I can wait.

If the train has already left the station w/ my RM40 order, that's fine too.

While I have often sung the praises of Brian and VMPS, I have to also give the highest KUDOs to the VMPS customers and customer base.

As evidenced by jgubman, who shows patience and flexibility that I have seen so often.

In a business like this, I have to say that all of the VMPS supporters and enthusiasts are just great people!!

Thanks J.

vpolineni · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

We will order other finishes from Mark once we have samples from him. Time to make your preferences known!..

Any possibility for a birds-eye maple finish? Now that would be nice

Sa-dono · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 09:00 pm »

Well I am glad to hear that the meeting went well

For my two cents, I'm actually kind of disappointed that all of the cabinets will not be manufacturered through Mark's facilities. My reasoning is that while for 2-channel, this will be a sweet deal, for those buying for multichannel and HT setups, the difference in finish quality will become apparent (meaning they will not match as well..equaling lower WAF). Just a thought...

Chris · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Nov 2003, 09:37 pm »

Quote from: Sa-dono

Well I am glad to hear that the meeting went well

For my two cents, I'm actually kind of disappointed that all of the cabinets will not be manufacturered through Mark's facilities. My reasoning is that while for 2-channel, this will be a sweet deal, for those buying for multichannel and HT setups, the difference in finish quality will become apparent (meaning they will not match as well..equaling lower WAF). Just a thought...

i have to say as well, i was really hoping i might be able to get my 626R's
"upgraded" with birds-eye maple cabinets in the near future

regardless though, still great news.