Always on?

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NewBuyer

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Always on?
« on: 28 Jun 2008, 02:57 am »
Hi James,

I am currently shopping for amps and Bryston is at the top of my list. I am wondering please about the best operation of the Bryston SST amps, and specifically how long they should be powered-up to achieve this.

For instance, I found reference (at a different manufacturer's site about their own solid-state amps), that it initially requires 6+ weeks of continuous powered-on (with music playing) operation of a solid-state amp before things can be trusted to finally start sounding right (per the amp) - and then this following advice is also given:

Quote
"Even after the initial break-in period, the internal components lose their charge each time the unit is turned off. The full re-charging can take hours (and sometimes days!). Therefore, the best sonic performance is achieved when the components are kept fully charged at all times. This essentially means leaving your equipment on at all times--if you are comfortable with that arrangement. If not, at least be aware that it will take some time for your unit to warm up and fully charge each time you power up."

So do you also recommend similar advice regarding Bryston amps - should they be always be left on for proper sound, and if not, it will "take hours (and sometimes days!)" before the sound settles? My concern results from my family's usual listening patterns, which nearly always involves a turning-off of the amp after each use - and certainly not waiting hours (or days) after the amp is turned-on before listening!

Thanks in advance for your reply. :)


Gustavo

Re: Always on?
« Reply #1 on: 28 Jun 2008, 03:03 am »
In my bryston experience, preamplifiers and CD players must be “on” all the time, the difference is very noticeable. Ideally also power amplifiers should be always on, but difference in sound to my ears is more dramatic when CD and preamplifier are always powered.

drummermitchell

Re: Always on?
« Reply #2 on: 28 Jun 2008, 03:19 am »
I have always left my front 2X7b-sst on all the time as we'll as cdp,prepro.My 3rd 7b-sst and 2x4b-sst are on standby say an hour or two before I watch a movie(I'll turn them on)I use to have them all on and my power
bill was up a good 60-70.00 more a month so now i just have the 2 7Bs for music powered up all the time.
And now that I have a Torus 15a Balanced(240v) and a 20a balanced (240v)We shall see what the power bill
will be.I would assume an hour or so should be fine,I'm sure James will have a solid answer for you.

vegasdave

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #3 on: 28 Jun 2008, 09:35 am »
In my bryston experience, preamplifiers and CD players must be “on” all the time, the difference is very noticeable. Ideally also power amplifiers should be always on, but difference in sound to my ears is more dramatic when CD and preamplifier are always powered.

I concur.

James Tanner

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #4 on: 28 Jun 2008, 10:43 am »
Hi James,

I am currently shopping for amps and Bryston is at the top of my list. I am wondering please about the best operation of the Bryston SST amps, and specifically how long they should be powered-up to achieve this.

For instance, I found reference (at a different manufacturer's site about their own solid-state amps), that it initially requires 6+ weeks of continuous powered-on (with music playing) operation of a solid-state amp before things can be trusted to finally start sounding right (per the amp) - and then this following advice is also given:

Quote
"Even after the initial break-in period, the internal components lose their charge each time the unit is turned off. The full re-charging can take hours (and sometimes days!). Therefore, the best sonic performance is achieved when the components are kept fully charged at all times. This essentially means leaving your equipment on at all times--if you are comfortable with that arrangement. If not, at least be aware that it will take some time for your unit to warm up and fully charge each time you power up."

So do you also recommend similar advice regarding Bryston amps - should they be always be left on for proper sound, and if not, it will "take hours (and sometimes days!)" before the sound settles? My concern results from my family's usual listening patterns, which nearly always involves a turning-off of the amp after each use - and certainly not waiting hours (or days) after the amp is turned-on before listening!

Thanks in advance for your reply. :)



It's a good question and one most design engineers do not understand because - at least in our case - it is impossible to' measure' differences during warm up after about the first 4 hours . (By the way, not to be cynical but some manufacturers tell you it takes time to run in or warm up because what's really happening is that your just getting use to the changes in your system?)

That being said I have always found that when I do audio show demos of Bryston by about the 3rd day of the show things are beginning to come together sonically.Things like soundstage height and depth, coherence, timing, tonal balance etc all start to sound better (nothing that is measurable).  It just seems like everything is cut from the same cloth.  So as a listener I advocate leaving things on -- as an environmentalist I have serious concerns.

So in my own case I leave one of my Stereo systems powered up continuously (Quad/2B SST/BP26/BCD-1) and turn my Surround system on and off as needed. The 4B amps will draw about the same as a 100 watt bulb at idle whereas the source gear - preamps, CD Player etc. draw very little power. So I guess the responsible thing to do would be to leave the low-level gear powered up continuously but turn the power amp on a day or so before you do any critical listening.


As a neat aside - your going to see an "Editors Choice Award" in a very prestigious magazine on the 28B SST soon. The first day the reviewer called me to say he had heard the 28B at an audio show I was demo-ing at and was knocked out but in his system it was good but not great.  Two days later he called and told me I would never get these amps back!


james
« Last Edit: 28 Jun 2008, 11:51 am by James Tanner »

Viajero5000

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #5 on: 28 Jun 2008, 11:18 am »
I find that turning all the components on a day before, and playing music through the system for 2-3 hours before I actually sit down and start listening works well.

James Tanner

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #6 on: 28 Jun 2008, 11:52 am »
I find that turning all the components on a day before, and playing music through the system for 2-3 hours before I actually sit down and start listening works well.

Hi Viajero,

What components do you presently have in your system?

james
« Last Edit: 28 Jun 2008, 03:37 pm by James Tanner »

splittailz

Re: Always on?
« Reply #7 on: 28 Jun 2008, 09:43 pm »
a couple weeks ago, I turned off my complete system, including Torus's, only left on the 20 amp circuit on the RM-60 that the plasma is connected . It seemed to take 4-5 days powered up to get back to what I had. seems the 28's do take a bit to get them going.

smerlas

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #8 on: 29 Jun 2008, 12:28 am »
My system is always on.  I mute the preamp at night when I go to bed and un-muted it in the morning when I am getting ready for work.

I am installing a new panel box and converting the electrical service from overhead underground so I have been monitoring the current draw of the 4BSST to determine which leg of my service to hook it to, in an attempt to balance the panel box.  So as such I have the following actual current draw information for the 4BSST as read with my amp probe.

1. At idle 0.45A or 54 watts @ 121 volts
2. Low volume 8 o'clock on the volume  0.6A or 73w @121v
3. Moderate volume 9-10 o'clock on the volume 1.5A or 182w @ 121v (equivalent of [3] 60w light bulbs)
4. Loud 1/2 volume 3.0A or 363w @ 121v (equivalent of [6] 60w light bulbs)

Rest assured this data was determined relative to the above mentioned electrical service upgrades and not because my sock drawer was finished being organized, nor were the results obtained while waiting for my goldfish to be neutered.

The point being the amp does not draw as much under normal circumstances as you would think based on the power consumption numbers provided by Bryston.  The actual current draws appear less than the theoretical values.  So if you leave a 4BSST on all the time you are in essence leaving the light on.

vegasdave

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #9 on: 29 Jun 2008, 12:46 am »
That's good to know. Thanks!

NewBuyer

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #10 on: 29 Jun 2008, 06:52 am »
Wow, thanks James and everyone else for all the responses. :)

Do the recent digital amps (as in the ICE-POWER module amps etc) also require a similar length warm-up period before they sound their best? I also wonder if Bryston has been considering any recent digital amp technology, possibly for a future product offering? :?:


James Tanner

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #11 on: 29 Jun 2008, 11:17 am »
Wow, thanks James and everyone else for all the responses. :)

Do the recent digital amps (as in the ICE-POWER module amps etc) also require a similar length warm-up period before they sound their best? I also wonder if Bryston has been considering any recent digital amp technology, possibly for a future product offering? :?:



Hi,

We are experimenting, and have been for about 3 years now, with Class D (the engineering guys always get on my case when I call them Digital Amps).  They always say "JAMES- there not Digital amps there Class D ---- Class D from an engineering standpoint is still an ANALOG exercise - there switching amplifiers for God's sake."

Anyway we have looked at a number of Class D designs and there are some issues with a lot of them.  We have found a design that to start with we will be using in some Commercial and Distribution amplifiers in September. They will be 8x130 watt and 8x250 watt units called the D130Z and the D250Z (zone) respectively.

james

MacAngus

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #12 on: 1 Jul 2008, 12:55 am »
I have a question regarding my SP2 powered up all the time. It does run rather hot when on so I leave it on standby when not in use.
However, I leave my Simaudio W-3 powered on all the time. When I first got it "used" I was told it should be left on all the time which I thought was not necessary and wasteful but after I had it for a while thought I should try leaving it on and see what happens. After about a week and a half it really started to open up and everything was smoother and more dynamic. It runs barely warm, so it stays on 24/7 at least during the long cold winters here in Calgary. I was wondering if the SP2 and the BCD-1,( which I am interested in), have their circuitry "on" while in standby. I have a quote from the Simaudio web site regarding this:
(The “Standby” button disengages the transport mechanism from the rest of the CD-1’s circuitry and turns off the digital
display.  However, when in “Standby” mode, all digital and analog audio circuitry remains powered up to help maintain
optimal performance.
)
Is this the same with Bryston's preamp/processor and the CD player?

James Tanner

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #13 on: 1 Jul 2008, 09:30 am »
I have a question regarding my SP2 powered up all the time. It does run rather hot when on so I leave it on standby when not in use.
However, I leave my Simaudio W-3 powered on all the time. When I first got it "used" I was told it should be left on all the time which I thought was not necessary and wasteful but after I had it for a while thought I should try leaving it on and see what happens. After about a week and a half it really started to open up and everything was smoother and more dynamic. It runs barely warm, so it stays on 24/7 at least during the long cold winters here in Calgary. I was wondering if the SP2 and the BCD-1,( which I am interested in), have their circuitry "on" while in standby. I have a quote from the Simaudio web site regarding this:
(The “Standby” button disengages the transport mechanism from the rest of the CD-1’s circuitry and turns off the digital
display.  However, when in “Standby” mode, all digital and analog audio circuitry remains powered up to help maintain
optimal performance.
)
Is this the same with Bryston's preamp/processor and the CD player?


HI MacAngus,

No the Bryston is not 'charged' when in standby.

james

MacAngus

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #14 on: 2 Jul 2008, 01:53 pm »
Thanks James,

I guess each manufacturer has their own definition of what constitutes to be on "standby".
You mentioned your concern as an environmentalist when leaving equipment powered up all the time. I feel the same about leaving my small amp on all the time. It begs the audiophile/philosophical question: "If you leave your amplifier on in the living room and there is no one around to hear it, does it still make a hum"?
Do you find there is any environmental concern in the hi-end audio industry regarding energy use with equipment?, and how to improve it.
I know it's a guilty indulgence we all share to enjoy our music, but it would be nice to see some type of "green" policy or ratings for audio equipment without compromising performance of course.

James Tanner

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #15 on: 2 Jul 2008, 02:30 pm »
Thanks James,

I guess each manufacturer has their own definition of what constitutes to be on "standby".
You mentioned your concern as an environmentalist when leaving equipment powered up all the time. I feel the same about leaving my small amp on all the time. It begs the audiophile/philosophical question: "If you leave your amplifier on in the living room and there is no one around to hear it, does it still make a hum"?
Do you find there is any environmental concern in the hi-end audio industry regarding energy use with equipment?, and how to improve it.
I know it's a guilty indulgence we all share to enjoy our music, but it would be nice to see some type of "green" policy or ratings for audio equipment without compromising performance of course.

Hi MacAngus,

I loved your 'hum' quote - can I use it?

Yes we are always looking at ways to improve the efficency of our products and not having a 'standby' mode is one of the options we choose to be as 'green' as possible. 

james

MacAngus

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #16 on: 3 Jul 2008, 05:32 am »
Sure James, feel free.
I'm surprised someone hasn't chimed in with something like; well of course there is no hum, it's a Bryston amp!

DM

vegasdave

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Re: Always on?
« Reply #17 on: 3 Jul 2008, 09:06 am »
 :rock: