[Bob in St. Louis]

The support here is outstanding. Think I'll skip a paid consultant for now!

Yea, the consultants you just skipped paying and the folks helping you here for free are the same folks. 
{Check the signatures of the fella's that posted} 

Bob

[John Casler]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not at all ready for speaker placement yet!!!!
I'm getting set on a room that is 12 x 17 or 17.5 x 7.5 high.
I'll have lots of other questions along the way.
The support here is outstanding. Think I'll skip a paid consultant for now!

Paul

Hi Paul,

If you decide to keep the DQ-10's plan on at least 2.5 - 3 feet behind them (depending on front wall room treatment, if you want a good Soundstage and Imaging, which is why you have DQ-10's (I assume )

[JLM]

I happened to be in town yesterday, so orthobiz invited me over.  They have a very lovely home on a beautiful lake (which explains why his basement room got flooded out).  Like most basements, ceiling height will limit proper room size.  He'll have to work with the contractor to determine just how high it can be and if it should be drywall or suspended.  Double stud wall construction with insulated/sealed exterior fiberglass door was reviewed.

He's taking the opprotunity to add central air (northern Michigan on a lake, translation: A/C not considered a necessity when the home was built).  So I advised to use insulated fiberglass ductwork to the room and make the duct run long enough to avoid hearing the blower fan. 

Interestingly orthobiz had a chance in college to work in the front office of Jon Dalquist, so the DQ-10s have sentimental value.

Thanks for invite yesterday!

[orthobiz]

Kudos to Jeff, it was great talking to somebody with shared interests who has knowledge about construction. My Dahlquists are 5-way and with  my subwoofer, maybe even SIX way. Jeff's home setup has single drivers!

Anyway, I'm already looking into the staggered studs and Green Glue/double wall construction.

He spent a lot of time looking around and giving his opinions which is priceless. Thanks again, Jeff.

Paul

[bpape]

Sounds like you guys had a good time. 

One comment - if you're going to do a drop ceiling, using Green Glue, staggered stud, double drywall, etc. are pretty much a waste.  Dont' get me wrong, I absolutely advocate all of them - but the ceiling MUST be drywall or you're losing all your isolation value. 

Using RSIC-1 clips and hat channel to mount the drywall will allow good isolation and not cost you too much height.  Another option if the joists run the right way and there's not too much in the way of mechanicals interference, you can build your walls 1/2" short of the joist, use DC-04 clips to isolate them, and then lay new joists of your own on top of the walls and between the existing joists.  This will only cost you and extra 1/2" of ceiling height but give excellent isolation and save you money over the RSIC-1 and hat.

Bryan

[Bob in St. Louis]

You should also look into a product that lays on the floor and allows the water to "flow" under your floor harmlessly away to the drain.
Can't remember what it's called but Bryan knows what I'm talking about.
It's the 2' X 2' tongue in groove plywood with the plastic "treadplate" backing.
Not the cheapest things in the world, but if it keeps your stuff dry.......

Bob

[bpape]

Good point Bob.  I think you're referring to DriCore

http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx

We use that a lot in the HT and studio designs.  Not only does it give you peace of mind for water, but it provides a nice level of isolation when walls are built on top of it for full decoupling.

Bryan

[Bob in St. Louis]

Yea, that's it. 
I kept thinking of "DryLoc", but that's a type of concrete paint.
HIGHLY recommended for Paul's situation.

Thanks B.P.

Bob

[orthobiz]

Flooring and ceiling were my next questions.

OK: definite drywall ceiling. Double layer with Green Glue? Do I need 5/8 instead of 1/2 or is it overkill given the double thickness of the GG treatment?

And on the flooring: I'll have some supersurround drainage sump system installed next week, ditches around the periphery of the basement with a plastic "drain tile" equivalent so I don't expect to have more water flowing through my house anytime soon. So does the Dri-Core have a sonic benefit? Just put carpet right over it without further pads underneath?

Paul

[bpape]

The DriCore does provide isolation.  Believe it or not, sound can flank through a concrete slab.  The DriCore allows you to build the walls on top of it for better isolation.

For the ceiling, double 1/2" with Green Glue is good.  5/8 is better but harder to work with.  If you really want it isolated, hang the drywall from RSIC-1 and hat channel.  That with DD and GG is about as good as you're going to get until you want to just get silly spending money.

Bryan

[orthobiz]

Dumb question.

The RSIC-1 attaches to the studs.
The hat snaps into the RSIC-1.
The drywall attaches to the hat (furring channel).

How exactly does the drywall attach to the channel?

Paul

[Big Red Machine]

Dumb question.

The RSIC-1 attaches to the studs.
The hat snaps into the RSIC-1.
The drywall attaches to the hat (furring channel).

How exactly does the drywall attach to the channel?

Paul

Drywall screws will go right in.  Instead of marking the studs along the floor to locate them, you'll have to know horizontally where the channels are to hit them with the screws.  Take photos with dimensions marked in of the channels all around the room so later when you want to hang something you know where they are!!

[orthobiz]

So the screws go through the drywall and through the channel and into the studs?
I can't imagine just one thread of the drywall screw into the thin channel...
I went to the company's website but just couldn't find a pic of this.

Paul

[bpape]

Nope - they go through the drywall into the metal channel.   If you go into the stud/joist, you're defeating the purpose by 'recoupling' the drywall to the structure.

On the PAC International site, they have usage charts showing proper spacing and patterns for 1, 2, or 3 layers of drywall.  PM me if you wnat some help interpretting them and figuring exactly what you need.

Bryan

[Big Red Machine]

The channel will be inches away from the stud anyways.  You can use 1 5/8" drywall screws and one of those neat magnetic screwdriving tips to hold the screw in place.  I didn't, but you can.  Maybe I can find the electronic copies of my walls before drywall so you can see what we mean.

[Big Red Machine]

Same idea, different brand than what Bryan mentioned.  http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax/index.aspx

I put double layer of 1/2" versus 5/8 in my 2 channel room.  I caulked all the joints between the drywall pieces and the inside corners and the top and bottom seams.  Kept the sheets from actually resting on the floor and caulked that gap.  Used Green Glue at 50% between layers.  85 db inside the room and 52 db outside the room after double door/double wall and all flanking noise blocked as well (up and over walls through floor joists above).

Maybe you should drive down and I can show you several rooms in the area so you can see firsthand?

[orthobiz]

I'd love to drive down, Big Red, I'll PM you if I can work out a time in the future.
IKEA is in Canton, one of my wife's favorite places!

Paul

[Big Red Machine]

I'm in China July 12 thru 19th but then here at home on vacation that following week.

[JLM]

BTW I avoided suggesting the ceiling channel route due to the already low ceiling heights and my experience with residential contractors (that typically get very "squirrelly" trying anything new to them).  Orthobiz has copper water supply line running on the underside of the joists, so the contractor must also factor in a bit of structural considerations before relocating the pipe.

Again the dry-core will lower the ceiling height, and I hate any idea that brings groundwater into the house in order to get rid of it.  "Inviting" water into hidden spaces of the house invites long term water and mold damage.  I'd rather deal with it outside best you can and then know ASAP if its not working (leaking into the house).

bpape,  I know what you're saying regarding how walls versus ceilings are dealt with.  Thanks to my builder I have rather poor isolation at the ceiling (he wouldn't use channels as per the contract documents), but good lateral isolation with insulated staggered stud walls mostly behind stairwell/storage spaces).  Just wanted to clarify that ceiling and walls are two separate issues.  In my room I just plain don't hear the nearby furnace or HT room, but do hear the dishwasher, washing machine, dryer, footsteps, etc. above.

Orthobiz, 1/2 versus 5/8 drywall is probably a $25 difference.  Let the contractor lift/work with the heavier sheets (no big deal for him).  Structurally the difference is nearly twice the strength and over twice the stiffness (resistance to resonance), so one layer of 5/8 drywall has roughly the same acoustically properties of two layers of 1/2 drywall.  (Unless you use the Green Glue, in which case that is the better solution.) 

[bpape]

Dri Core will cost you a little ceiling height for sure.  All a matter if you can deal with it.  Not sure what you mean about inviting water in.

As for the 5/8 vs 1/2", 1 layer of 5/8 isn't in any way the same as 2 layers of 1/2" - Green Glue or not.  Simply the additional mass of the double 1/2" will significantly lower the resonant frequency of the cavity/assembly which is one of the big goals of isolation.  If one can drop the frequency below that which is reproduced, then the cavity/assembly can't provide an amplified path for sound transmission.

RSIC-1 and hat channel - yes, it's going to cost you a little height.  However, depending on the size of the pipes running below the joists, you likely will be able to get below them using the RSIC-1 and hat channel.  So, it might actually save you money by not having to pay to move all of them.  All depends on the size and how they're oriented.

Bryan