Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?

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Tyson

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Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« on: 25 Jun 2008, 07:52 pm »
Long time VMPS owner here, still loving my RM-40's after several years, which is unprecedented for an inveterate "upgrader" like myself.

I was recently pondering why the 40's have stuck with me for so long, even through some other pretty large system changes. 

I believe part of it is the transparency, speed, dynamics, full range, and large scale presentation.

A larger part seems to be their tunability.  In other words I can get the speakers to sound almost any way I want to, by adjusting the putty and the mid and high pots.  This really lets me balance the speakers the way I like while still retaining the transparency and other strengths of the speakers.

Given this ability, it seems odd to me that more people don't build speakers able to be adjusted this way, and odd that more people are not interested in buying such speakers.  Once you get to a certain level of quality with regards to transparency, resolution, dynamics, imaging, and bass, you are left with tonal balance and presentation as your main variables.  Seems like a lot of people switch out from one speaker to a new one based on these balance issues, which seems like a waste of money and effort when a tunable speaker will give you the ability to contour that without having to buy something completely new.

Early B.

Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #1 on: 25 Jun 2008, 09:15 pm »
I've been wondering about this, too, but I think it's gonna change rapidly. The big craze right now in the speaker world is active crossovers. Soon, many high end speaker manufacturers will dive head first into designing speaker systems with active crossovers. Of course, VMPS is at the forefront of this movement.   

John Casler

Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #2 on: 25 Jun 2008, 10:50 pm »
Hi Tyson,

Hope your doing well and your exercise program is working.

As far as "tunable" or adjustable speakers, that can be a double edged sword in the marketplace.

Both an advantage and a bane to various customers.

To me, it is an "extreme" advantage since I like to play with Big Boy toys and assembling a system, and room is "loads" of fun and enjoyment, including all the various adjustments and changes that can be made to make the sweet seat, even sweeter.

But to some, it is like buying a computer and then having to learn "computerese". :duh:

Many want a "plug and play" component even if it is not as accurate or as good as it could be. :?

Plus some users with "sensitive" ears (or maybe other) occasionally post about how a small adjustment moved the sound from "unbearable" to pure heaven, which can lead a customer to assume that if you don't find this "exact" and "precise" adjustment you have wasted you money on a bad sounding speaker that will take hours of "fiddling" to get it right. :scratch:

Nothing is further from the truth.  Small increments, make small changes, and the pursuit of sonic perfection will always be just that "a pursuit" since there is no definitive room, system, and recording from which to say, I have arrived. :green:

But most VMPS owners are the type that take a little initiative and occasionally perfrom a little adjustment here and there to good result.

Early B is correct in that Brian is moving forward with the newer technologies in the active x-over areas and taking to it like a fish to water :thumb:

Over the last couple years we have been preparing for this technology and the OXO was the first step to providing the design level changes to provide that path.  That means the OXO (outboard x-over) caused us to build speakers with a binding post pair for each driver.  This allowed owners to step right in to the "active digital" XO's as soon as they are available, and many are already listening to SDE (Special Digital Editions) of the 626, RM2, RM30, and RM40.  The RM v60 SDE is also soon to be available.  These are also available with or without the "digilog" version which blends the Tweeter and Neopanels to act as one speaker and means you need only "Bi-amp" rather than "Tri-amp", although Triamping is optional.

So all in all, it is obvious to most that the speaker component is THE most important component in the chain. Changes and adjustments to the speaker cause the largest and most critical affect to the sound in room.

To be able to have more control of that sound is a great thing.

Big B, is certainly not stuck in the past on this, and the benefits are clearly evident.

Early B.

Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #3 on: 26 Jun 2008, 03:52 am »
At first, I was hesitant to acquire VMPS speakers because of the reasons John mentioned. In fact, I've had my VMPS speakers almost two years and hadn't pulled putty until recently. I was shocked at the difference a tiny piece of putty made when I removed it. Now I'm eager to experiment with active crossovers, especially if pre-programmed settings from the manufacturer are available.

Tyson

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Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #4 on: 28 Jun 2008, 05:30 pm »
Here's a real world example of why I love my 40's ability to be tuned - I recently bought a Kavent (Vincent) tubed hybrid preamp and when I hooked it up, it sounded terrible, woolly bass, recessed mids, veiled highs.  First thing, roll some NOS tubes in there, ah, that's getting better!  But still not there, the sound was still a bit slow, a bit veiled, mids a bit recessed.  So, all my putty goes back on, and I slowly start to re-tune the bass till it is nicely integrated.  I'm adjusting the pots as well during the process, trying a little more here, a little less, incrementing as I go.  I end up with an overall balance that is perfect for my tastes and my room. 

If I had non-tunable speakers I'd have never been able to do this.  I would have had to either sell the preamp or sell my speakers to get something that worked together.  Which, I guess, is what a lot of people actually do...

Zheeeem

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Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #5 on: 30 Jun 2008, 05:49 pm »
Probably because most audiophiles are like me... fat and lazy.

I neurosed a while before buying my RM30Ms.  I liked every single one of Big B's design and engineering concepts.  But I recalled the days when I had an equalizer that drove me absolutely nuts trying to get everything just right.  I really didn't want to go down that path again.  I was reassured when B told me that he'd do the putty and pots, so that when the speakers showed up, all I'd need to do was put dem dere feet on 'em and listen to music.

Oh...  I confess to turning the tweeters down a couple of nubbins.  But only once, mind you.

smk

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Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #6 on: 30 Jun 2008, 11:34 pm »
I think it's a combination of American's becoming "fat & lazy", as suggested by Zheeem and the audio industry as a whole not getting behind the idea tunable speakers & pushing the concept.

Tyson

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Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #7 on: 1 Jul 2008, 04:36 pm »
Or maybe it's because most audiophiles don't actually trust their own ears. 

hmen

Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #8 on: 1 Jul 2008, 05:10 pm »
In my case it was the fear of screwing things up irreversibly.

woodsyi

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Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #9 on: 1 Jul 2008, 05:24 pm »
It was the RM40s that brought me to this forum and before I know it, I have over 3k posts.  :o 

I still have mine although much has changed from that first pair.  Frankly, I wouldn't know what to do with speakers into which I can't go in and desolder coils, add caps, change drivers, add Bybees, add/change damping stuff, etc.  :lol: :lol:

Tyson

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Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #10 on: 2 Jul 2008, 06:46 am »
Of course, as much as I love this stuff, I have to admit I have a secret weapon - my wife.  I'll be fiddling around w/the speakers all day and she'll come in and say "Too muddy".  So, more bass/putty adjustment.  After a while she'll come back and say "Sounds slow", so the mids/tweets have to be adjusted.  Then, "Too Tizzy", so the tweeters get toned down a notch.  It's really helpful to have someone with great ears that can do a "spot check" like this during the tuning process, as it lets me "see the forest" after spending so much time looking at the trees.

woodsyi

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Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #11 on: 2 Jul 2008, 01:55 pm »
I have no secret weapon.  My wife just shakes her head when I am in the tuning mode.  She only asks that I don't uses any band that she likes because she will be sick of it after hearing the same song at least a dozen times.  As I go through a tuning process after a change, I sometimes get to a point of frustration where I am thinking it's not worth the bother.  I would wish just to have a plug and play thing but then everything clicks and I smile.  At the end of the day, I would rather be able to tune, even if it's PITA most of the time, than not.  :wink:

Brian Cheney

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Re: Why aren't tunable speakers more popular?
« Reply #12 on: 4 Jul 2008, 08:43 pm »
It became obvious to me early on (1979) that there was no one correct setting for driver levels or system Q, and that speakers were completly dependent on their environment and associated equipment.

The tunable PR is still a highly useful feature, even now with digital crossovers, EQ and correction available.  It's like the ability to change port tube length that another designer on this board discovered to be an important feature on his speakers.  The putty change is more flexible and dramatic, but it's nice to see others agreeing with me on the necessity for a flexible, adjustable speaker.

By combining passive and active adjustments you can get results not otherwise achievable, regardless of gear and listening environment.