[Carlman]

I think if 'jjb' could recommend just one system, that is inexpensive and would work and stick to that one recommendation, people like myself would be more than satisfied with that input... and that input only from 'jjb'.

It would be nice if we could stick to the subject.  The one thing that will indeed help in your search is to audition what you can... and where you can.  If nothing else, a trip to CC or BB will at least let you touch the controls and help you decide if it's going to work for you logistically.

Also, you can hear how terrible some things sound that were so highly recommended.... and maybe you'll find something that wasn't even on your radar that satisfies you... But, that's always the number 1 advice on this kind of thing... go hear it...

I like the Polk speakers if you don't want to build anything and you have limited options for review.  They aren't bad.  Other than that, I haven't heard anything that really floats my boat for surround sound... but, I don't really understand what surround sound is really supposed to be reproducing.  With 2-channel I can say, that's a stage, there's the instruments, etc... I'm still in 'discovery mode' for HT stuff.  I have until tax return time to decide what I'm going to do for a center channel and rears.  

As to receivers, I do like Marantz but, if the Panasonic and Sony digital's are as good as everyone is saying, it would be stupid to go with conventional receivers/amps that cost a LOT more and don't give any more sound quality or features.... or flexibility that I would need.

Good luck and be sure to post a review of what you get.

.

[jjb]

Take a look at the Parasound HCA-2205 HT Reciever, www.parasound.com. Again I'll simply state that within the home environment a center channel is a waste of money given the normal room size of most HT set-ups. Read a few articles by some well known audio consultants before you state your objections. My main point to the newby was to research his otions and spend a fair amount of money on his reciever as "it is the car engine of his system" also research how a high quality speaker provides off-axis response.  "Read some research documents"!!!!!:o

[jjb]

Your right carlman, I'll stick to the topic. My recomendation for a first time system would be a Denon receiver $500 to $800 range, Paradigm speakers the Atoms (4 Channel) with a Paradigm sub.

[Carlman]

Thanks, JJB!  I'll do the same... so far from what I've seen in the world, the Polk's at Circuit City with either the Sony or Panasonic digital receivers would be my recommendation for a good, inexpensive HT system.

[bubba966]

spend some money here and look at the Marantz AV line, Onko Line, Parrsound, or look for seperates. Stay away from Sony, HK, Pioneer, etc. 2) As for speakers given that your room is not as big as a movie theater a center channel is a waste of money

Hmmm. Stay away from Pioneer, and buy Marantz. Who is it that OEM's Marantz's gear?...  

  Oh yeah, PIONEER!

And a center channel is a waste of money? Sure, it is. Only as long as there's only one person watching the movie. Because once you get off axis, it totally screws up the placing of the dialog. It's no longer centered on screen where it should be, it's off to the side. And that's awful damn weird watching movies like that. I've experienced that exact feeling watching something on someones setup that had Ellis 1801's, and no center channel. Everything was fine, until you moved 2' to either side. Then it was all bad.

I wasn't going to say anything initially as my audio opinions usually aren't taken seriously around here as I only watch movies, and don't buy or listen to just music. But I think it's time to say something.

I've gone through a good deal of gear myself in the last 5 or 6 years. And I've listened to a few setups as well. I've messed with your $300 HT in a box setups, to a $700,000 custom install and almost everywhere in between.

So I'll first mention something that no one else has yet bothered mentioning. How important is functionality to you? I really don't like equipment that's a pain in the ass to use. So you should try using different receivers if you can. I personally despise Sony gear as it's the worst to setup & use that I've yet to see. I also haven't cared for using Panasonic, Yamaha, or Denon stuff. That's one of the reasons I've been using Pioneer (Elite) receivers for some time. They're built good. They sound pretty damn good. They've got great video switching. The MCACC works very well. And they're easy to setup & use.

So if you're looking at the Pioneer 912K, keep looking at it. Try one out if you can. Pick one up & I doubt you'll be unhappy with it.

Don't drop the center channel. In movies (and especially TV) the center channel is IMO the most important speaker in your setup (the sub being almost as important). So not only should you defintely go for a center, you should go for the best one you can possibly get.

I see you were looking at the M&K K5. I was actually going to suggest the K7's before you mentioned the K5. So maybe go for a K7 for the center, and K5's for the L & R speakers. And the K4 Tripoles are excellent rears. A friend of mine has K7's across the front (L/C/R), and K4's for the rears running off a Pioneer Elite VSX-36TX receiver. A damn good sounding movie setup, and not too bad for music as well.

[jjb]

Last Word, When it comes to A/V equipment the terms Good and Inexpensive just don't match, you always get what you pay for (usually something less) The Pioneer Elite is not inexpensive and is a decent unit. It's funny how a center channel covers the same size sweet spot as two well positioned mains. I love differing opinions this is a great forum and like anything there is good and bad opinions, unfortunitly in audio equipment most people look for the most for the least and end-up getting the least. At least it sounds good to them!!:?

[jjb]

Ok, Final Word, If anyone is interested READ CAREFULLY the article at www.audioperfectionist.com on Real Info About home Audio Systems. Look for the articles under free journal #1 is about 27 pages long but full of information.  It puts the center channel debate into a real perspective.

[bobby_t1]

My 50" GWIII LCD RPTV is pretty high, so if the center channel was placed on top, it would be almost 1.5' above my head. Is this a problem? Does teh center channel need to be head level?

I may be able to go a bit larger in speakers and will look at the K7's per your suggestion.  Gotta hit my local shop to test out some M&Ks.  I went to Good Guys the other day and heard:

-Gallo Nucleus Micros
-Energy Take 5.2
-Energy Encores

I was really underwhelmed by the Gallos, but I think it had to do with their setup. It was basically playing in theiir open air store, whereas the Energy speakers were in their "listening rooms" which has much better acoustics.  

My front speakers can definitely be larger than I originally expected due to the placement of my TV, but the rear speakers need to be as small as possible as there is almost no room for them.  What could I possible mix and match to get really small rear speakers with perhaps M&K up front?

[jqp]

My 50" GWIII LCD RPTV is pretty high, so if the center channel was placed on top, it would be almost 1.5' above my head. Is this a problem? Does teh center channel need to be head level?...

That's an interesting question for me right now. Mine will be on the floor pointing up at my head for a little while until I can build a sheilded shelf that supports 80lbs.

I have seen several pictures where the center is on the floor under the TV screen.

[bubba966]

You can easily have your center higher than head level. Just aim it down a bit so that the tweeter is aimed at ear level.

M&K makes brackets to angle their speakers down that work great. I'm using one on my S-125C, and my Surround 550-THX rear centers. The friend of mine with the K7's has one on his center channel as well.

I use a speaker alignment laser to get my speakers aimed right. I makes it very easy to get them aimed dead on. You could also use a laser pointer or even a decent quality flashlight (Mag light, etc.).

And the K4's I mentioned to use as rears are pretty damn small. If those are still too large, M&K's Xenon series are even smaller.

[bobby_t1]

You can easily have your center higher than head level. Just aim it down a bit so that the tweeter is aimed at ear level.

M&K makes brackets to angle their speakers down that work great. I'm using one on my S-125C, and my Surround 550-THX rear centers. The friend of mine with the K7's has one on his center channel as well.

If it is resting on the top of the TV, how do you aim it down to head level? I can't imagine you mean to prop it up with something underneath so it's titlting downwards? (that seems way too unstable).  I don't really want to mount it on the wall anymore.. my wife has changed her mind and would like front speakers on stands.  As for center channel, the TV stand only has 3" of room in front of the TV so I do'nt think any center channel would fit there. So only place for it is on top of the TV.

[bubba966]

By angling it downwards you can either prop it up with something underneath the back edge of the speaker.

The M&K bracket I'm referring to screws into the back of the speaker and is not a wall mount bracket. There's a slot in the bracket for adjusting the length that the plate protrudes beneath the bottom of the speaker.

Using the M&K bracket the center is very stable. My S-125C is sitting on top of my 32" Toshiba Cinema Series set. Before I got the bracket I tried proping it up with various things (carboard, etc) with little luck. But using the bracket, the center isn't going anywhere now.

See http://www.mksound.com/stands_brackets3.html (second thing down on the page) to see what I'm talking about. You'd need a single ST-ABR-1 for the K5/K7 speakers.

[MaxCast]

A foot and a half on the north side is not that bad with a 50" TV.  Just do as recommended, tilt down to hit you between the eyes.