ACI Voicing

DR · « **on:** 11 Jun 2008, 11:43 pm »

Hi All!

I thought it might be fun and educational for me to start a thread on why we like the ACI sound. As far as the subwoofers go I am not sure there is much debate. I could be wrong though.

I will start out with an impression from the Sapphire XL's. Up until now, the most musical speaker I have owned is a pair of Vandersteen 2ce's. These 1st order beauties when properly setup, were almost a point source. If you have ever setup a pair of Vandersteens you know what I mean by properly setup.

The Sapphire's are not as difficult to setup, are 4th order vented monitors. A totally different bird. However, they also sound point source! To me they sound like the Revelator is the only thing on. Of course that isn't the case when I constantly in disbelief stick my ear up to the tweeter. One other thing that really makes or breaks a pair of speakers for me is the sound of a ride cymbal.

That cymbal is a tender sound that is difficult to reproduce. On some speakers I have heard it sounds like soft hits on a crash cymbal. With my XL's, the ride sounds metallic and rings like the real thing. Totally mesmerizing.

Any other thoughts?

DR

Photon46 · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Jun 2008, 12:28 am »

Your thread's premise is a good one. What appeals most to me about my ACI Talisman's voicing is their very lack of an overarching, dominant, characteristic other than being a rather neutral conduit for the source material. To quote a tiresomely repeated but valid observation of much equipment, their vices are of minor omissions. I've heard more revealing, expansive sounding speakers that are still non-fatiguing and natural sounding, but they've all cost multiples of the Talisman's price. I do not like bright, etched, "Hi-Fi" type sound in the least. Many of today's highly touted speakers sound like synthetic, discombobulated parodies of music to my ears. The ACI's create a very natural simulacrum of the recorded musical event, one is drawn in to the music for hours without listening fatigue.

Eric · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Jun 2008, 11:49 am »

For me the Jaguars are one of the most natural sounding speakers I have ever heard. They excel with intrument placement and have very natural highs without being over extended.

DR · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Jun 2008, 01:41 am »

Already there seems to be a high frequency consensus here. How about describing the music? I would appreciate some recommendations to stretch me. Also, how about you low frequency people? What do you hear?

DR

Photon46 · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Jun 2008, 01:12 pm »

Well, perceived shortcomings in low frequency reproduction were one of the main reasons I wanted to move on from my previous Magnepan 1.6qr/Sunfire Sub Jr. speakers. I don't care whether I'm listening to classical, jazz, world, or rock, I like to have a well articulated, pitch accurate, extended low end from my speakers. As the Talismans have self powered sub sections with adjustable level, phase, and crossover, you can have near infinite control over the integration of low frequencies with your room and associated equipment. After living with this feature set, I'll have a hard time moving to fully passive speakers in the future. There's nothing for me criticize at all about what the Talismans do in the bass department, especially at their price point. Nothing flabby, uncontrolled, or Ill defined about sub 100 hz. frequencies with these ACI's. I was listening to the Delos recording of the Mount Saint Helen's symphony by Hovaness recently and was amazed at the Talisman's reproduction of percussion instruments on this recording. Critics often talk about using "Flight of the Hippo" by Bela Fleck as a reference for bass reproduction. Let me tell you, the Mount St. Helen's symphony is an order of magnitude more of a test. It's absolutely frightening in it's ferocity of bass energy.

DR · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Jun 2008, 11:37 pm »

Thanks Photon46!

It is on my shopping list. Right now I am listening to the twentieth anniversary edition of Dark Side of the Moon. Once again the cymbals are all there - hi hat, ride and crash. Oh wait, there is a helicopter in there too

It might be interesting to compare ACI with other speakers also if anyone desires.

It is Friday night!

DR

DR · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jun 2008, 11:34 pm »

Greetings all and a happy upcoming 4Th,

Tonight - after having the Sapphire XL / Force XL combo for several months I decided to slip the Emerald XL's back in. I was expecting a let down. I changed nothing in the setup. The in line crossovers at 65Hz - Force XL the same. I am using the same spacing, toe in and Force volume as with the Sapphires.

Although the Sapphires are clearly louder and a magnificent set of speakers, these Emerald's sound like the same steal that they did when I first got them. What gems! Plus, all of my ACI products are Cherry and the Emeralds look as beautiful as the Sapphires.

Mike you're the best!

DR

DR · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Jul 2008, 12:23 am »

Well tonight, an original mix of LZ "Houses of the Holy" went in the player. Now most of Zep's recordings are technically challenged but the Emeralds were having difficulty with any midrange resolution at all.

So back go the Sapphires. Once again - no change to the sub or crossover. Resolution instantly on a very rough recording! The speaker tone between the two are nearly identical. The Sapphires are just that much better in this situation. Effortless is how I would describe it.

DR

DR · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Jul 2008, 12:36 am »

If Mike is looking for possible quotes, here is one.

'If you want to really gauge the Sapphire XL, take it out of the system."

DR

bpape · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Jul 2008, 01:15 am »

Isn't that the truth....

Bryan

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Jul 2008, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: DR on 4 Jul 2008, 12:36 am

If Mike is looking for possible quotes, here is one.

'If you want to really gauge the Sapphire XL, take it out of the system."

DR

An interesting phrase for sure. In a way, I think what makes our speakers voicing “special” is what they don’t do. The voicing of stereo components is an interesting topic. Most manufacturers will claim that they design their gear to be as accurate as possible. If everything is accurate, why doesn’t it all sound the same?

Those who’ve spent significant time auditioning various brands have become family with the various voicing of different brands. Terms like, laid-back, forward, bright, revealing, etc. get tossed around. Some brands throw a huge, spacious image . . . others are more pinpoint. There’s more, but you get the point.

A long time ago I learned that if you want your brand to really succeed in dealer showrooms it was good to stand out in some way. A speaker that seems to give “more” of something the listener values is going to sell. A sharper treble will catch people’s ear, so will extra potent bass. A slightly recessed area in the midrange will create a deeper image, and a rising treble response with frequency can add “air”.

Our consumer – direct sales model allows us to forget all the above and do our best to build truly neutral speakers. They don’t have to stand out in a crowded showroom. This is incredibly liberating for us! It’s why most owners love them more and more, the longer they have them. They don’t have any extra “stuff” that gets in the way of the music.

I’ve noticed an interesting effect at every audio show we’ve ever done. I think of it as sit and stay, stand and I’m out. Those who come in and stand somewhere at the edge often leave rather quickly. They’re not hearing any of that “stuff” that captures them. Those who come in and sit down for a couple minutes frequently stay and enjoy for quite a while. Often they’ll return multiple times during the show. The longer they listen, the more they hear and want to hear. And yes, sometimes they’ll decide to purchase right there at the show or sometime soon after.

Vapor Audio · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Jul 2008, 08:46 pm »

Hey Mike, I gotta say ... from hearing your speakers a few separate times, I agree with your voicing 'philosophy'. There's never anything the speakers do that keep your from enjoying the music, they're just well behaved and composed, while still giving a clear window into the performance.

I wish more designers would clearly state their voicing goals and preferences, and not in ambiguous terms lie "Accurate". Two speakers from AC manufacturers instantly come to mind as ones that should come with a warning sign reading "Warning, meant for 60+ year old guys who've worked on a flight deck and now have no hearing above 3khz, and only listen to Jazz at 85db or less". But I'm not saying who

Yours on the other hand are done quite nicely, they always leave a smile on your face.

opnly bafld · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Jul 2008, 10:39 pm »

Mike, I'm one of those people that "stand and I'm out" because I already know how good they sound and
I also know that if somebody is in the sweet spot it will be a while.

Lin

griller · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jul 2008, 12:46 pm »

Quote from: Photon46 on 12 Jun 2008, 12:28 am

Your thread's premise is a good one. What appeals most to me about my ACI Talisman's voicing is their very lack of an overarching, dominant, characteristic other than being a rather neutral conduit for the source material. To quote a tiresomely repeated but valid observation of much equipment, their vices are of minor omissions. I've heard more revealing, expansive sounding speakers that are still non-fatiguing and natural sounding, but they've all cost multiples of the Talisman's price. I do not like bright, etched, "Hi-Fi" type sound in the least. Many of today's highly touted speakers sound like synthetic, discombobulated parodies of music to my ears. The ACI's create a very natural simulacrum of the recorded musical event, one is drawn in to the music for hours without listening fatigue.

Seems there is a strong consensus in this thread on how various ACI models all have the same essential character. I fully agree, and I think Photon, you said it really well. My own experience with Sapphires, Emeralds and Force XL is pretty much the same. For the first time in my long history of audiophilia I am simply enjoying music without any strong desire to try something else. They seem like a very clear lense into the music. I've listened to a couple of mega buck systems since I've gotten the Sapphires home. Hell, the cables in these systems cost more than my speakers. Both of these setups sounded pretty awesome in the first few minutes but the longer I listened, the less I care for them and I came to the conclusion I prefer mine for real enjoyment. Theres a lot of product out there with a big WOW factor but that isn't what I want. Just took me a few years to realise it!

DR · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jul 2008, 11:51 pm »

Griller,

Nice to hear from you again! Your post made me think and I absolutely agree. Being a speaker junky all these years I no longer feel I need any more speakers. I have a lot of fun switching the Emeralds in and out with the Sapphires but the Sapphire is it.

I am listening to Robert Plant and Alison Krauss. Many different instruments and the two voices. All well balanced and uncolored.

DR

denjo · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Jul 2008, 01:40 am »

I previously owned the Rel Stratas which did not work out for me. The experience kept me away from Subs for a decade until I tried the ACI Force XL, having read many good reviews of it. I also observed the good customer service support, something I value highly in the equipment I own. I am really happy with my Force XL which has been trouble-free and provides the tight bass I need particularly for AV. Its tucked away from my main system and left on 24/7 and quietly goes about its job. The only time I "remember" it is when I hear the bass go deep and taut, then I know the Force is doing a fine job! The highest praise I have for it is knowing The Force XL "disappears" with the music! It does not call attention to itself! Highly recommended!

DR · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Jul 2008, 01:56 am »

Denjo,

You have found what I have with the Force XL. If you get it setup correctly, it disappears. At first it was cool to have it on at too high of a crossover or volume level. Once balanced however, it just does it's job. Very cool.

DR

denjo · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jul 2008, 02:19 am »

DR
Yes, it took quite a while to dial in the "correct" crossover but I have set it slightly under as I don't like the bass to overwhelm. Then I register the setting for future use. For movies, I dial it up and the extra * oomph * is just great for such situations! Enjoy!

Best Regards
Dennis

Zero · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jul 2008, 02:28 am »

The initial spark that ignited my interest in the reviewing gig arrived in the form of a generous offer from Mike; who approached me with a no strings attached offer on trying the Sapphire XL out in my own home. Prior to this point, I had never written a review. In fact, I never really considered dabbling in that field. After accepting his offer and spending some time with his product, I wanted to repay Mike for his show of good will and thus, his Sapphire XL became one of the first products I ever had the pleasure of formally reviewing. To date; they are one of the only review-sample components I have ever purchased. I didn't buy them because I felt obligated to do so. I bought them because I thoroughly enjoyed their sound and wanted to own them. Simple as that.

To me, the most salient attribute of the Sapphire XL resides in how spectacular it is at not being spectacular. They do not perform obvious hi-fi tricks, and subsequently, the novelty of their sound never wears off. I found them to was always remain well balanced and more importantly; always enjoyable over a wide range of electronics and music. They are an exceptional loudspeaker, and even though I no longer own them, they still remain my standard for what is possible in a compact monitor in their price class.

DR · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jul 2008, 11:33 pm »

Sometimes it might sound like I work for Mike (which might be fun) but I don't. Long acquainted with the Titan II, this is first time I have ever been so overwhelmingly taken with a full range speaker like the Sapphire. One exception is the Vandersteen 2CE but it was very difficult to setup and a different design philosophy.

Sometimes with the Sapphire XL Force XL setup, I turn it on and go in the other room to my computer. Like right now

I have to get up constantly and go to the sweet spot because of the sound coming out of this setup. I will hear a guitar or trumpet or guitar or the Force come in just at the right time. I have to go listen to what it is doing.

Maybe we shouldn't be so easy on Mike but I can't honestly think of a criticism. Why someone would want to spend more money on speakers is beyond me.

DR