[AliG]

While I am thrilled with the sound I got from vinyl, I am a bit "deflated" by the noise level, I hear surface noise, tickings, clickings and occaional poppings on almost all my LPs, many of these LPs I bought new and cost between $30-$50 each. I have cleaned my LPs using a painfully arduous procedure:
(1) Use Pledge tissue to remove excessive dust (if any)
(2) Steam and vacuum
(3) Scrub with LAT International Kleer-Disk liquid cleaner
(4) Steam and vacuum
(5) Steam and vacuum again
(6) Clean with LAST Factory Power Cleaner
(7) Apply LAST Record Preservative

I also apply LAST Stylus cleaner and preservative to my Dynavector 20XH cartridge before each play.

So my LPs are DEAD clean. But I still hear surface noise (clickings and tickings). And occasionally I hear poppings, although some LPs are worst than others.

That makes me wonder, could it be a problem with the setting of my cartridge? I haven't yet applied damping fluid, not sure if it would help.

barry

[woodsyi]

Little ticks don't bother me but obvious scratches do.  I listen to old music that are exclusively on LP's or 78's -- I have no choice.  Using a mono switch or doing the mono cabling will get rid of a lot of "stereo noise" on mono records.  I can send you a record that I know not to have pops and ticks and see what you hear. 

[TheChairGuy]

Barry,

Not that is likely to change the noise issue...but the LAST Power Cleaner should go on before you clean it with the LAT International Kleer-disc and vacuum.  This powerful pre-cleaner cleans out a lot of gunk from the grooves...that you then want to pick up with the Kleer-disc and vacuum afterwards.

You may be laying down additional gunk in your grooves by using the very effective Power Cleaner after the vacuum process...thus causing more noise than you'd like. Your Dynavector, a moving coil, is likely well damped internally already and is not the cause of the additional surface noise experienced.

Application of the LAST Record Preservative can be done at any time (before the first time you play it, or before or after the vacuum process) as it is not a cleaner...it stabilizes your surface so that it wears far slower than it would otherwise. 

The LAST Record Preservative cannot make any record sound better per se (I read of review/'professional' reviewer once where someone exclaimed that their records sounded great after it's use - it doesn't work that way...you are going on a bit of faith that it is actually stabilizing the vinyl itself with use as you cannot hear its benefits)...it can only forestall the eventual destruction of the grooves by stabilizing the vinyl formulation to resist wear longer.

Call up LAST in California and get their take on things....they have been around 30 years and can really guide you if you have questions. Heck, you own 3 of their products - I think they can give you 10 minutes of time 

John

[WGH]

I don't know if your new Dodd  uses feedback but Jim Hagerman responded to a similar question regarding his Bugle phono stage:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=44856.0

"It's a matter of linear headroom.  What happens in a feedback type phonostage is that a tic or pop will drive the circuit out of loop (loss of feedback control, sort of like clipping), which it then has to recover from.  As a result, high frequency overload conditions are greatly exaggerated.  Worse yet, is that when open loop, there is a corresponding loss of all other musical information.  The BUGLE is designed to amplify the tics and pops as they are, yet not go open loop, the music continuing in parallel.  Of course, there is a limit to this, where the BUGLE will eventually clip.  The CORNET achieves the same thing, but has much softer clipping during overloads.

jh"

I use a Cornet2 with upgraded caps with a Goldring 1042 and tics and pops are not a problem at all. My old Sumiko Talisman Alchemist high output moving coil was a lot noisier, I think part of the problem was the cartridge and arm was not a good match.

[AliG]

WGH,
  I don't think it's the Dodd, because I also have EAR834p on loan from Woodsyi (Rim) and the level of noise are the same. I think the noise is either in the records or it's due to my cart/tonearm setup.

Rim (Father Teresa)  ,
   I can't really ask you to ship me more stuff...what I'll do is to bring some of my LPs to test on a different rig.

TheChairGuy...thanks for the tip for using the LAST Power Cleaner..

[BobM]

My records got significantly quieter when I moved from an Audioquest PT6 tonearm to a Moerch DP-6. The tonearm is definitely a factor, but the cleaning process is probably the most important contributor.

I use the simple Disk Doctor process, with a rinse of filtered water at the end, a quick pat down of the excess water with a lint free paper towel and then an air dry. I don't put anything else on my records, but I do find that paying extra attention to that last rinse made a whole lot of improvement.

BTW - I also have a 20X-H, at first into a Coronet 2 but now into a Trumpet phono stage. Yes, it is very quiet except for the occasional click.

Enjoy,
Bob

[Wayner]

It's my opinion that most noise is from static electricity on the vinyl. That is why I used a damp record brush that has been misted with a spray bottle containing 1/4 99% isopropyl alcohol and 3/4 H20 (distilled). I listen to vinyl every night. Many of my LP's have zero noise.

I have also used a ZeroStat Gun, however, the companies explanation of use has me puzzled abit about positive and negative static. I believe all static is negatively charged and the only way to neutralize it is to introduce it to a positive field.

Wayner 

[BobM]

So does that translate to a zap on the pull or the release of the trigger?

I believe the company recommends a zap on the release of the trigger, no?

Bob

[AliG]

you mean you use that wet record brush on the vinyl prior to each play??

It's my opinion that most noise is from static electricity on the vinyl. That is why I used a damp record brush that has been misted with a spray bottle containing 1/4 99% isopropyl alcohol and 3/4 H20 (distilled). I listen to vinyl every night. Many of my LP's have zero noise.

I have also used a ZeroStat Gun, however, the companies explanation of use has me puzzled abit about positive and negative static. I believe all static is negatively charged and the only way to neutralize it is to introduce it to a positive field.

Wayner 

[lofreek]

Since the audio on an LP is amplified so greatly, it wouldn't surprise me at all that even a tiny bit of residual magnetism could result in noise. I ordered a Walker Talisman this morning. It doesn't seem the least bit far - fetched that there are traces of magnetic materials in vinyl records, and the Talisman is reported to be effective in this regard.

[Wayner]

Posted by: AliG 

you mean you use that wet record brush on the vinyl prior to each play?

I wouldn't say it's totally wet, but it is damp. And yes, everytime I play. The records are nice and slippery and have zero noise.

Posted by: BobM 
Insert Quote
So does that translate to a zap on the pull or the release of the trigger?

I believe the company recommends a zap on the release of the trigger, no?

Bob

I've been pulling the trigger away from the LP and releasing the trigger pointed at it. I think that this method really knocks down the static, though I've only done it a couple of times. I'll use it some more tonight.

Wayner

[Wayner]

I also wanted to note that an incorrect VTA with tail up may increase surface noise a bit.

W

[AliG]

I did some more listening last night, replaying the same song over and over again to see where it pops, apparently the "pops" come from exactly the same location, so I think it's either due to the gunk in the groove which cannot be removed by my cleaning method, or it's part of the pressing. I will try some other cleaning liquid to see if it can remove the pops.

[BobM]

I recently say a link for a wierd method of cleaning, using wood glue. Takes a long time to dry, but then it peels off pulling all the groove gunk out completely. I guess it might be worth a try on a record that was badly messed up and you didn't care about much. But the one assumption is that all the glue comes out when you peel it off.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?596c389471a7552c103a390571bb6f61&t=99837

Enjoy,
Bob

[lcrim]

There is a school of thought that one should allow vinyl to rest 24 hours between plays, the 24 hr rule.  There are any number of people who would dispute this rule.  The justification is that vinyl deforms from the heat generated by the stylus passing through the grooves.  The stylus is a relatively small point of contact and when you do the math, there is a realatively large mass bearing down on the small point of contact therefore heat is generated that distorts the vinyl.
I think that you need to check your setup more carefully and relax and try to enjoy what you have.  Some weeks back, I suggested the use of Pledge Dust & Alergen dry cloths, which are electrostatic disposable cloths.  The reduction in surface noise after using these is palpable.  
I don't spray anything on my records, but I do use a vacuum cleaning record machine, KAB's cheapest hand powered for about $160 or so and then a thorough swipe w/ the Pledge cloth just before playing as well as a few stylus brush passes w/ stylus cleaner occassionally on the stylus.  Playback in that system is highly detailed and surface noise is almost non-existent.  But it took years to reach this point.  Some combinations of tonearms and cartridges are better than others at reducing surface noise, BTW.

[lofreek]

I've tried the glue method, the George Merrill water spray method, as well as steam. The glue method is not very convenient, to say the least. The water spray method is messy and inconvenient as hell. The steam method, when done with a VPI vacuum, is somewhat effective, but also quite inconvenient. My steamer is a commercial quality Rigel Dany 306, not one of those little hand held jobs. I intentionally damaged a record in order to see how much the vinyl could take before groove deformation occurred. The steam nozzle has to be very close to the record to hurt the groove, but that is not why I no longer use the steamer.

I am getting the best results using a Milty Pixall to get particulate matter, then Microcare Premiere applied with cotton cosmetic pads (you can really see the yellow junk come off the vinyl), then washed with DD and Vinyl Zyme, rinsed and vacuumed on my VPI with sterilized water I get from a hospital pharmacy, another Pixall treatment and sprayed with an Ionoclast on the turntable right before play. Lots of steps, but still more convenient than the other stuff I tried, and certainly does not need to be done every time a record is played. I keep a log of my cleanings and the condition of the record on the inner sleeve.

Many records remain noisy, so that is why I am curious about the Walker Talisman. Mine is due to arrive Tuesday.

[BobM]

And us vinylphiles wonder why so many other audiophiles stick to CD's ... 

Bob

[SET Man]

...I use the simple Disk Doctor process, with a rinse of filtered water at the end, a quick pat down of the excess water with a lint free paper towel and then an air dry. I don't put anything else on my records, but I do find that paying extra attention to that last rinse made a whole lot of improvement....


Enjoy,
Bob

Hey!

     Yup, I use Disc Doctor also for quite sometime now. Simple and seems to works well. And I don't put anything else on my record also.

Take care,
Buddy

     

[Marcos]

I think you need to bite the bullet and buy a good vacuum machine.  Others may disagree, but I don't see how you can get all the dirt and cleaning products out of the grooves without one. 

At least try microfiber towels.  They absorb 100x more than cotton
http://www.microfibertech.com/16x16-Ultra-Terry-400-Microfiber-Towel--Blue-_p_0-121.html

[Wayner]

Noise can be generated by at least 4 different problems. The first is physical damage to the groove usually a scratch. You can tell the sound of a scratch because it has a repeating rhythmic pattern. This type of damage is not repairable. The second type of noise source is a pressing defect I call overcooking. That is when the press is too hot and creates bubbles in the vinyl. This is the worst defect of all and is usually undetectable with the human eye. The sound will be like pop-corn at it's very peak of popping. This type of damage is also unrepairable. The 3rd type of noise is caused by debris in the groove. That can be from finger prints (human body oil), mold, dust and grime. This can be removed but depends on the type of contamination to determine cleaning approach. The 4th cause is static electricity, which is the most common and easiest to fix.

Some excess noise is caused by the stylus design. Audio Technica uses a fine-line type of diamond shape that actually rides deeper in the groove, sometimes avoiding the slight surface scratches. However, this stylus may have problems with very deep embedded grime.

Wayner