ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!

Bigfish · « **Reply #1460 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 01:43 am »

Thanks for the update George. I hope you will continue to provide us with future updates as you get more time with the Treasures.

Ken

Audioclyde · « **Reply #1461 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 02:45 am »

My Treasures are well broken in, and my sentiments are similar to what I think George is hearing...the Treasures are 'tighter' than the TSRP's, but sometimes I have to drop the round plates back in and enjoy what they do so well. I've found that for my tastes the Treasures + Amperex metal plate gz34 is too much of great detail, with the Treasures I prefer the High Wycombe cv378 (my new EML 5U4G is on its way

--not going to break this one!!); with the TSRP's I may prefer the gz34 over the cv378....maybe, its really close. Kind of depends on my mood and type of music.

But its great that we have choices!!!

Has anyone tried the reissue TS 6sn7's? I read the Jim McShane thinks very highly of them...

Randy

grenamc · « **Reply #1462 on:** 14 Feb 2010, 07:00 pm »

So, I last posted in April of last year. Wow. That's been awhile ago. I fully intend to catch myself up on all the experiments you guys have undergone in the last 10 months, but I thought I would still post my question in case I don't find the answer.

I am still running stock tubes in my TP to a pair of Linkwitz Orions. I love so much about my system, but it has a slightly shouty presentation on a lot of rock. Believe me, I realize that is probably more an effect of rock recording and mixing. But I thought if a different set of tubes would warm it up a bit I would have exactly what I am looking for. I would like to experiment on the cheaper end of the scale, so if I could get some affordable suggestions it would be much appreciated. I mostly want to play right now. I will get more serious (no doubt) after I have heard the differences an affordable tube makes.

Back in April Cleartop RCA's were popular, as were Raytheons and Ken Rad VT231's. Are these still considered a good launch pad? Also, I see there is a 100 dollar Amperex 5AR4 on A'gon. Would it be smarter to just bump my price point to 220 to get the EML? It seems to be universally loved.

Thanks,
Michael

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #1463 on:** 14 Feb 2010, 08:29 pm »

Michael - I'd look at the speaker>amp interface as the primary suspect in the kind of stridency that you describe. I don't know that rolling tubes at the source is going to address the problems you are having with a "shouty presentation" (poor recordings notwithstanding). At best you will be putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.

That said, you'll probably find that folks here agree only generally on tube combinations, while each have their own specific favorite flavor combinations. Up until recently a good many liked the EML+TSR combo which is quite expensive. Now the TSR's are being replaced by Black Treasure tubes from Shuguang though the jury is still out on those. I've never warmed up to any 5AR4 combination that I've tried (while others have certainly liked them), including Blackburn Mullards. I do like the military Mullard GZ32 and GZ37 options better in the realms of the more affordable options. I thought the Mullard CV378 sounded pretty damn good in my box, and can be found for under $100. The EML 5U4g is king in my book, but certainly more expensive and worth it for all it brings to the table. I haven't done enough experimenting with 9-pin tubes to comment other than the Cleartop RCA's were pretty good, but easily bested by various Octal options (requires an adapter for your MWTP). Yes, I'd say the Ken Rad VT231's offer big bang for the buck in what the Octal option has to offer.

Bottom line: If you are trying to solve the shouty problem then a good place to start would be not be rolling tubes IMHO. I would be looking at the speaker/crossover/drivers, as well as the speaker>amp interface. Just one opinion though.

Quote from: grenamc on 14 Feb 2010, 07:00 pm

So, I last posted in April of last year. Wow. That's been awhile ago. I fully intend to catch myself up on all the experiments you guys have undergone in the last 10 months, but I thought I would still post my question in case I don't find the answer.

I am still running stock tubes in my TP to a pair of Linkwitz Orions. I love so much about my system, but it has a slightly shouty presentation on a lot of rock. Believe me, I realize that is probably more an effect of rock recording and mixing. But I thought if a different set of tubes would warm it up a bit I would have exactly what I am looking for. I would like to experiment on the cheaper end of the scale, so if I could get some affordable suggestions it would be much appreciated. I mostly want to play right now. I will get more serious (no doubt) after I have heard the differences an affordable tube makes.

Back in April Cleartop RCA's were popular, as were Raytheons and Ken Rad VT231's. Are these still considered a good launch pad? Also, I see there is a 100 dollar Amperex 5AR4 on A'gon. Would it be smarter to just bump my price point to 220 to get the EML? It seems to be universally loved.

Thanks,
Michael

owenmd · « **Reply #1464 on:** 14 Feb 2010, 08:51 pm »

Hi Grenamc,

In general I agree with Marco.... although it will be a lot simpler and cheaper to mess with a little relatively inexpensive tube rolling to see if this gets you in the right direction.... if it doesn't help, you obviously have issues elsewhere. Poor power for example can sound harsh and aggressive, as can all components and cables and the effect is obviously cumulative. Any one or two on their own can be fine.... but added together and the result is unpleasant.

Like Marco, I've found the bigger power tubes like the 6sn7 and 7n7's easily best the smaller tubes and are well worth the cost of an adapter from Wayne, ebay chinese or other sources. You can get excellent NOS power tubes for $10- $25 a pop from some places.

I also prefer the GZ37 and GZ32 types to the GZ34's.... although the NOS RCA 5U4g's are also great as are the Russian sourced svetlana 5U4g's you can get on ebay for only around $25 a pair.... the RCA's are warmer and smoother and the Russian tubes are more detailed, cleaner and leaner. Like most, I haven't found anything better than the EML overall... but its pricey!

Mark

grenamc · « **Reply #1465 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 02:46 am »

Thanks for the responses guys, much appreciated. It's interesting you suggested I look at my amps first, because that is exactly what I played with today. I pulled my HT amp out and powered the mid range and tweeters with it (Orions are active crossover, so a channel per driver). Night and day difference. Nice and musical without losing detail. So, I know what I need to do. I just have to decide how to do it. I will definitely look at the tube options you guys both mentioned. I am still interested in rolling just to see what happens.

Thanks again,
Michael

vlasis · « **Reply #1466 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 04:27 pm »

So....exept the price,you think that the EML is the best rectifier valve for the 36.5 preamp???

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #1467 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 05:33 pm »

Quote from: vlasis on 15 Feb 2010, 04:27 pm

So....exept the price,you think that the EML is the best rectifier valve for the 36.5 preamp???

Just to be clear I have always been referring to rolling tubes in the Transporter. In my 36.5 I am using Mullard/Blackburn 5AR4's and haven't tried the EML there, nor any 5U4G/gz32/gz37 option. Currently my rack is preventing me from doing that, but that may change soon.

In the Transporter the EML is a clear winner, so much so that the price is a moot point to me. I don't know that this would necessarily carry over to the 36.5, but Phil seems to like it there. There is a thread about tube rolling in the 36.5 here, though it needs some revitalization as it's not nearly as popular as this thread.

modwright · « **Reply #1468 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 03:59 pm »

FWIW, the current production Tung-Sol reissues are quite good and we are shipping new Transporter mods with them as stock.

Thanks,

Dan

Philistine · « **Reply #1469 on:** 18 Feb 2010, 12:15 am »

Quote from: vlasis on 15 Feb 2010, 04:27 pm

So....exept the price,you think that the EML is the best rectifier valve for the 36.5 preamp???

Vlasis - I lined up an EML:Ruby showdown for you in the 36.5, unfortunately this got postponed by having to clear the snow after the storms we had in the NE. Last weekend was out due to a birthday celebration. I'll try and get this done for you, and others, this weekend!
Phil

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #1470 on:** 18 Feb 2010, 12:37 am »

Quote from: Philistine on 18 Feb 2010, 12:15 am

Vlasis - I lined up an EML:Ruby showdown for you in the 36.5, unfortunately this got postponed by having to clear the snow after the storms we had in the NE. Last weekend was out due to a birthday celebration. I'll try and get this done for you, and others, this weekend!
Phil

EML vs Ruby?!?

Why not give the EML some real competition? My experience with Ruby's rectifier is, well, they're OK I guess, but they're no EML or Mullard. No idea how it will pan out in the 36.5, but the Ruby vs the Mullard in mine wasn't worth more than a few moment's consideration...IMHO, of course.

Philistine · « **Reply #1471 on:** 18 Feb 2010, 01:47 am »

Quote from: Marco Prozzo on 18 Feb 2010, 12:37 am

EML vs Ruby?!? Why not give the EML some real competition? My experience with Ruby's rectifier is, well, they're OK I guess, but they're no EML or Mullard. No idea how it will pan out in the 36.5, but the Ruby vs the Mullard in mine wasn't worth more than a few moment's consideration...IMHO, of course.

This was a specific request from vlasis, as he's using a Ruby currently. I'll try and throw a few more in the mix!

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #1472 on:** 18 Feb 2010, 05:57 am »

Quote from: Philistine on 18 Feb 2010, 01:47 am

This was a specific request from vlasis, as he's using a Ruby currently. I'll try and throw a few more in the mix!

Ah, thanks for that clarification. Yeah, if you can throw any of the usual suspects (Blackburn 5AR4, Mullard GZ37) in there I would be very interested in how they compared.

tomm · « **Reply #1473 on:** 18 Feb 2010, 03:02 pm »

Compare a 5U4GB, if you have one, vs an EML in the 36.5. Thanks.

tomm · « **Reply #1474 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 04:26 pm »

Here is another perspective on burn-in of tubes.

http://www.jacmusic.com/html/club/FAQ-about-burn-in.pdf

vlasis · « **Reply #1475 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 09:20 pm »

Since 10 days i am using a Sylvania 5U4GB Black plate nos (1979) and i must say that the results are very goods with this valve.Of cource the difference from the Ruby is very big.....with tight bass,biger stage with lot of musicallity and beter focus in music.Of cource i must say to you that the Sylvania its biger in size and you need to open a hole to put it inside to the 36.5--thats why i am using plexi glass with many holes for the air and i am happy.
I am waiting for the EML for the final tests.....I am seeking for the winner for my 36.5!!!!
Hallo Phill and Marco....

dminches · « **Reply #1476 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 10:23 pm »

Semi off-topic question, but it is about the 36.5. Are any of you previous owners of the SWL9.0 Signature Edition and, if so, can you compare the 2 pre-amps?

funkmonkey · « **Reply #1477 on:** 25 Feb 2010, 05:14 am »

Sad day for me today, I flipped on the switch of my Transporter and my EML decided not to glow. I swapped it out for my HW CV-378, and that one fired right up. My guess is that my EML had about 600 hours on it. IMO that is a painfully short lifespan for an expensive tube like the EML. There is no denying that it does it's job exceptionally well, but I am a little reluctant to buy another one if it won't even last me a year...
After emailing with George at TubesUSA, it would seem that the lifespan can vary greatly from a couple of months to a couple of years, depending on the individual tube and it's application. He also mentioned that if the tube was showing some grey carbonization on the inner envelope of glass, it may be getting too much voltage, which would in turn lead to a shorter life. Mine runs behind a voltage regulating power conditioner that restricts voltage to 120 (+/- 3v), and showed no such carbonization.
So, now that many of us have had the EML for a while, and some are on to their second tube, would you guys mind sharing the approximate hours that your EMLs are lasting. If 600 hours seems to be common number for use in the Transporter, I'm not sure that I will go for a second one.
I have no regrets about the first one... just wish that it had lasted a little longer.

Cheers

zybar · « **Reply #1478 on:** 25 Feb 2010, 12:21 pm »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 25 Feb 2010, 05:14 am

Sad day for me today, I flipped on the switch of my Transporter and my EML decided not to glow. I swapped it out for my HW CV-378, and that one fired right up. My guess is that my EML had about 600 hours on it. IMO that is a painfully short lifespan for an expensive tube like the EML. There is no denying that it does it's job exceptionally well, but I am a little reluctant to buy another one if it won't even last me a year...
After emailing with George at TubesUSA, it would seem that the lifespan can vary greatly from a couple of months to a couple of years, depending on the individual tube and it's application. He also mentioned that if the tube was showing some grey carbonization on the inner envelope of glass, it may be getting too much voltage, which would in turn lead to a shorter life. Mine runs behind a voltage regulating power conditioner that restricts voltage to 120 (+/- 3v), and showed no such carbonization.
So, now that many of us have had the EML for a while, and some are on to their second tube, would you guys mind sharing the approximate hours that your EMLs are lasting. If 600 hours seems to be common number for use in the Transporter, I'm not sure that I will go for a second one.
I have no regrets about the first one... just wish that it had lasted a little longer.

Cheers

My EML died a few weeks ago as well (without any grey carbonization or soot).

I can't really say how many hours I had on it, but the tube was less than a year old. If I had to guess, I would say between 500-1000 hrs.

George basically said all the same things to me about the voltage. He was very knowledgeable and a good guy.

That being said, I agree with you that for the cost of the tube, I would expect (actually...demand) better reliability and tube life.

I went with a second EML (bought lightly used from a friend who no longer needs it), but I am not sure if I would have done so at the full price.

George

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #1479 on:** 25 Feb 2010, 07:24 pm »

Man, that's certainly disheartening to hear about these two early EML failures. That's a pathetic tube life for a rectifier tube in my experience, and definitely an expensive investment when the lifespan is considered. I hope this is not normal. There was a post I read back in December, '09 on a Head-Fi where somenone said they'd heard from EML that they were reducing the size of the bottle for the 5u4g tubes. Can anyone confirm or deny that (Valvesaglowin/George?) - anyone get one of the current production run from George? I wonder if that will have any impact on the life issue that is at play here, and whether it reflects a redesign of the tube's innards as well? Mine's still working fine. It'll be a year old at the end of April. I could only guess hours on it...not many as this has been a busy year...perhaps 400-500 hours.