[vlasis]

 Good morning Philistine ...thanks again for your interest and take care amico.
 I am leaving in Korinthos 80 km from capital of Athens close to the sea .I was 26 years in Athens but its a big rough city and the life if you have family its difficult .
 Now ..in Korinthos i really enjoy my family,my life,the sandy beaches and of course my MUSIC!!!!!
 More than 4000 cds and 1.5 terra of audiophile music ...o yeaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

[modwright]

Hi Vlassis, I would recommend a good Mullard or Philips Metal base GZ34, unless you are willing to have a hole machined in the lid of your LS 36.5 to accomodate the EML 5U4GB.  It reallly is probably the best tube.  I will ask my tech for the exact size hole dimension.  The diameter is key as the tube is large in this dimension as well as tall.

It IS a drop-in replacement for the GZ34.

Thanks,

Dan

[iGrant]

I wanted to follow up on my earlier question regarding burn-in of tubes in the MWTP: I heard back from Dan who confirmed that the output stage does operate in Class A.  So, based on Ian's input, that would imply that one need only have the tube-output circuit turned on, with no music streaming necessary, in order to burn-in the output tubes.

Yes then just running signal in should give you a good burn. Do listen to it whenever you can and if you have time let us know how it is sounding at different points on a fast burn.

Thanks,
Ian

[JG2]

Hi Vlassis,

The hole punch I use is a GREENLEE slugbuster round punch #50 31967. It creates a hole that is 61.5mm or 2.416"in diameter.

Philistine will comment regarding the hole in his 36.5. It may differ in diameter, not positive if is identical.

You have to measure and judge where the center point of the rectifier socket is located and go for it!

Good luck,

John

[Marco Prozzo]

Here is a quick way to locate the center of the hole on your top plate that only requires a small investment in a laser level.  Purchase a decent laser level, like one sold by Robo-Toolz.  Place the preamp on a confirmed level surface and remove the top plate exposing the tube socket for the rectifier.  Remove the rectifier tube.  Here's the tricky part and you may have to improvise here: you will need to clamp the laser level in a fixed position directly above the preamp making sure it is held perpendicular to the level surface below (ie level on all bubbles applicable). You will need to turn the laser on and position that dot dead center of the tube socket.  If you have a self leveling unit such as the FatMax made by Stanley that has a laser on a gimble mount you'll be a step ahead as that device will shoot a perpendicular beam straight downwards if held reasonably straight.  You can rent those here - I don't know how easy that will be in your country, along with a tripod that allows the beam to shoot down.  So now that you have the laser level fixed above the preamp with the dot shooting straight down into the center point of the socket, simply replace the cover plate and mark where the laser beam hits the cover.  That should be dead center for your punch if you've done everything correct (this assumes that the socket is mounted straight of course - even if a bit off there should be enough wiggle room if you oversize the hole slightly).

Hi Vlassis,

The hole punch I use is a GREENLEE slugbuster round punch #50 31967. It creates a hole that is 61.5mm or 2.416"in diameter.

Philistine will comment regarding the hole in his 36.5. It may differ in diameter, not positive if is identical.

You have to measure and judge where the center point of the rectifier socket is located and go for it!

Good luck,

John

[brucel]

I have been following the excitement related to the Treasures without the rudimentary understanding that my Transporter is one of the earlier conversions and takes the 9 pin smaller tube.  My Treasures arrived and my stupidity was instantly made clear.  I did get a note from Dan saying that there is a company called Colorado Cable that has adapters but I have come up empty on the site.  There are some adapters that I've found that take 6CG7's to an octagonal receptacle that claim to work with the Treasures and 6SN7's.  Any of you early converters have any advice for me on an adapter that will also raise the base high enough to clear the smaller cut on top of the Transporter?  Will the 6CG7 adapter work?  Thanks in advance for your help.

[Audioclyde]

brucel:  you're looking for Bolder Cable Company; Wayne has a Circle here on AC!

[Marco Prozzo]

Here's the link to Boulder's adapter

[Marco Prozzo]

Yes then just running signal in should give you a good burn. Do listen to it whenever you can and if you have time let us know how it is sounding at different points on a fast burn.

Thanks,
Ian

You bet.  I'll post some initial impressions that I was holding off on simply because they are most definitely different than others have experienced with the tubes.  I was waiting to see if things sorted themselves out.

As I said, my experience has been unique to everything else I've read here, and from what I heard from Dan, who I assume was commenting on a new pair since Phil said they were sent to him first.  Straight out of the box I was disappointed.  To be blunt, they sounded poor in comparison to the TSR's and the KenRad's that I'd directl replaced.  The midrange was recessed, all sparkle was gone in the highs, and the overall sense was a flatter presentation.  I thought, "uh-oh, what have I done?!".  Sorry, but I can't explain this - I'm just calling it like I hear it.  Nothing else was changed in my system (36.5 single-box with modded PS, DR's and Blackburn 5AR4, K150, MWTP (obviously) and Coincident Super Eclipse III speakers) - I just swapped out the output tubes and left the EML Mesh rectifier in place.  So thinking I had some significant burn in ahead of me, after 6 hours of listening I took out the EML so as not to waste tube-life, and threw in a Tung-sol 5U4G I had (more on that), and left the unit on and with a signal running (didn't know about the Class A thing at that point).  Two days later I decided to listen again.  I first listened with the Tung-sol 5u4G rectifier in place....hey a bit better...more open, more forward...a bit more lively on top....lets put the EML back.  Holy monster rectifier, Batman...I'd forgottoen how big a difference the John Holmes 5U4G mesh could make! Now there was presence in spades...no more recessed midrange, no more lifeless easy to walk-away-from music. Highs shimmered again and the bass was back in check (had sounded a bit flabby or even non-existent...I just don't remember...I was so disenchanted).  So I'd guess I have about 60-80 hours on the tubes at this point.  I certainly would not recognize this sound from when they were brand new..it truly bears no resemblance to my ears to those first 6-8 hours.  I have yet to swap them back with the TSR's or the KenRads (which, btw, I also like as an alternate to TSR's which sound a bit more laid back and relaxed, while the KenRads seem to lend a bit more punch and dynamics). From memory (not always reliable) the Black Treasures have a leaning towards the lively end without introducing any stridency that I've noticed (I never got any of the sibilance one person has noticed).  I am very pleased with what I'm hearing from them currently.  I will write more on that when more time has passed and I actually swap back.  For now, I thought that my experience was unique enough to warrant a post at this point. 

[AB]

Treasure update #4

25 hours on the tubes now.

Back to fantastic!
These are amazingly pure sounding tubes.
The detail is outstanding. Where were those details before? With other tubes they were obscured, obviously, but by what? Lots of "WTF?" moments while listening these past few hours.
Dynamics are much more controlled than a few hours ago. A few hours ago dynamic passages were congested and harsh. Not so now.
Mid range is much more liquid sounding. Nora Jones' vocals no longer sound like sand paper on shale. Now she's just - uh, raspy. Naturally raspy.
Sound staging is now very wide and deep. Best ever with the MWTP in my system. Enveloping. Lush, even, with the right recording. Otherwise SSing is wide but natural - everything in its proper place and sized correctly.
Bass seems to go pretty deep. My system reproduces LFE style bass reasonably well and the Treasures do a better job with the lowest freqs than the TSRP do. There's far less bass bloom and now there's detail in these lowest notes. It's strange to hear a super deep synth note have some sort of phasing going on in it where before it was just a deep, round bass note drone.
Will they get better? Or back slide?
 

[Bigfish]

Will they get better? Or back slide?

Based on my experience they will get better but you are probably in for a hilly ride.

Please continue to keep us posted.

Ken

[funkmonkey]

Great idea using a laser level, Marco.  Also, I am with you on your observations of the Ken-Rads vs. the TSRs.  I find myself switching between them...

vlasis-  That black LS36.5 looks pretty sweet there brother.  I didn't even know that was an option these days. 

and thanks to everyone for the updates on the Treasures.

[zybar]

My Black Treasure tubes have arrived and I should be able to try them out tomorrow night.   

George

[JG2]

An Abacus, your basic wooden ruler, rocks, a sharp chisel and a good eye is what I use, damnit!

You guys and your fussy new fangled fancy pants laser tools........young wipper snappers!

I guess you guys think those new cell phones are the real deal and not just a fad too?

Kids these days.............

[zybar]

Has anybody tried Herbie's tube dampers with the Black Treasures?

If so, what size did you use?

Given the shape of the Black Treasures, I don't believe my current 6SN7 UltraSonic Rx Dampers will fit.

Thanks,

George

[Marco Prozzo]

Actually, you could do the exact same thing with a string and a plumb bob. May even be a bit easier! It's right there next to your abacus.

I'm posting this from my iPhone...LMAO!

An Abacus, your basic wooden ruler, rocks, a sharp chisel and a good eye is what I use, damnit!

You guys and your fussy new fangled fancy pants laser tools........young wipper snappers!

I guess you guys think those new cell phones are the real deal and not just a fad too?

Kids these days.............

[Bigfish]

Has anybody tried Herbie's tube dampers with the Black Treasures?

If so, what size did you use?

Given the shape of the Black Treasures, I don't believe my current 6SN7 UltraSonic Rx Dampers will fit.

Thanks,

George

George:

I would also like to know what size Herbie Damper is required.  I do not own calipers and would appreciate someone taking a measurement and publishing the result.

Ken

[zdogg]

I've been trolling around this thread for a few weeks now freeloading on the wisdom, hard-won through blood and sweat (and cash) of others, so I figured it was time to contribute for a change 

I have a Modwright TP used with an Oritek-modded Zhaolu combo dac/preamp, fed into a Spectron Musician III mk 2 amp (too poor for the monoblocks yet), then on to Piega P10 speakers. The Oritek dac/pre was my reference, but the Modwright with stock tubes gave it a run for its money...still, I sometimes preferred the bass control, imaging, and treble extension of the Oritek unit (see below for my use of ext word clock with this). I'm still using a cheap Raytheon 5u4gb (waiting for the EML to get back in stock), but just got a pair of the Treasures over the weekend. Here's my brief impressions:

Out of the shipping package they sounded fantastic, light-years better than stock Russian tubes for sure, but quite a bit better also than the Ken-Rads which I had borrowed from someone (but had to return a couple of days prior much to my sadness...they were great-sounding tubes). Initial impression was very similar to what AB has described previously; beautiful 3D imaging, refined highs, lots and lots of details but not at all etched or analytic sounding, very dynamic (though maybe a hair less than I recall the Ken-Rads sounding). Really seemed to combine the best of "tube magic" and solid-state precision/bottom end tautness. Upright bass had more texture and less boom obscuring said texture. Very nice!

Within a few hours (maybe 10 or so) they lost a lot of the magic and got much more dry-sounding...actually sounded a lot closer to the solid-state Oritek DAC (really remarkable...I can AB them instantly with a click of the remote so I'm pretty convinced that the two DACs sounded very similar at this stage, whereas out of the box the Modwright with Treasures really stood out as superior in every parameter...bloom, air, microdynamics, tonal balance). Ugh, time for more burn in.

Currently I'm at about 60 hours and they're opening up again. Even more detail everywhere, but especially in the midrange. Bass extension has improved. Some of the soundstage and upper frequency magic has returned. Macrodynamics are still a bit muted though.

I anticipate these will continue to open up and I'm extremely impressed and grateful to those on the thread who pioneered the use of these.

Can't wait to hear what the EML will add!

[Bigfish]

Can't wait to hear what the EML will add!

The combination of the Treasures with the EML 5U4G Mesh is just pure magic.

[zdogg]

Thanks, can't wait to hear it!

Off topic a bit, but a brief word about my experience with external word clocks. When I still had a standard unmodded Transporter I picked up a Black Lion Audio Microclock Mk2 on audiogon for a great price (by audiophile standards...they retail for "only" $495). These are rugged little pro-audio-geared units with a switch-selectable clock frequency and a switching wallwart power supply. I used a BNC-BNC cable to feed its signal to the word clock input on my TP (after making the necessary settings adjustments in Squeezecenter). Holy &^$%, with the Oritek DAC (fed by the TP via SPDIF) the focus just snapped into place. Everything was more coherent, bass was tighter, violins had focus and detail. Stunning. I then took a 12 volt SLA battery and replaced the wallwart with it (after soldering an appropriate connector to some wire)...as imagined, it sounded even better.

So I tried the clock with the Modwright unit using the internal Transporter DAC. Definite improvement in focus, similar in qualities to what I heard when the TP was used as a transport to the external DAC, although maybe less dramatic (I think my external dac is very sensitive to jitter and showed more improvement for this reason).

If a cheapo clock like this can make such an obvious (to my tin ears) improvement, I can't imagine what a high quality external clock would do. As always, YMMV, but I highly recommend experimenting with external word clocks.