ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!

funkmonkey · « **Reply #1060 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 07:22 am »

since Jim asked one question that I had running through my head I'll go ahead and ask another...

I've seen a few of the TS rounds bearing the VT-231, but most seem to be labeled CTL/6SN7GT only even though they claim the VT-231. Do you guys know if there is any difference?

jwes · « **Reply #1061 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 04:59 pm »

Here's a great page by Brent Jesse: http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

At that bottom of the paragraph on 6SN7GT/G, he says that the early 40's TS were the military version of the VT-231. There is also a nice little video buried in there showing different GT's. IN all the looking I've done, I've never seen the actual "VT-231" on any of the 40's Tung Sol. I wonder if this kind later became known as "VT-231" types and that designation was used for other tubes made in that vein...

Jim

jwes · « **Reply #1062 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 05:03 pm »

Wait: here from a link inside the Brent Jesse link that I sent. It appears that with TS, it's the CTL prefix that is the "231" designation...

VT-231:

These are basically the military lableling for the commercial versions of the 6SN7 types described below. There are many different prefixes as well, depending upon the manufacturer-- Raytheon is CRP, Sylvania CHS, RCA CRC, CBS-Hytron JHY, Tungsol CTL, KenRad CKR. See my section section on this by clicking here.
6SN7GT / G:

This is the original version of this tube. It may be found in all three sizes of glass envelope. The Sylvania Tall Boy types have two triangular shaped plates facing each other mounted high in the tube, with either a top or bottom getter. The early Sylvania types had a top getter and silver flashed the entire top of the tube, sometimes called "chrome tops". Many brands used this design, but the high mounted triangular plates means it most likely was made by Sylvania. The early RCA "GT" types were usually in either a medium or short envelope and have a grey RF shield sprayed on inside the glass. The GE and KenRad types were similar, but the inner glass coating is deep black. These tubes usually have flat black plates, like large 12AX7 blackplates. The military versions of these are the VT-231 and are in very high demand today.

Berto · « **Reply #1063 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 05:15 pm »

I will ad:

VT-231* - Military Part number for 6SN7. Part number used until 1945 - hence presence of this designation is usually a guarantee for real old tubes.

I also read that there is no magical difference with the VT-231, but now here is the contradiction, well more so regarding the RCA 6SN7 which were produced from 1942-1956.

“Here we get into murky territory. RCA produced a grey glass 6SN7GT with side micas straight through from 1942 until at least 1956, and there is a great deal of sonic variation among tubes within that period. None are bad. But the early one sound far better.

So it appears in regard to the RCA at least, the VT-231 should be more sought after since you will know you have a earlier, better sounding version (we hope).

If your paying more for a TS round b/c of a VT-231 designation , at least from all the reviews claiming no sound difference , it seems pointless. Hope this helps.

JG2 · « **Reply #1064 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 05:18 pm »

Here is a general history of the 6SN7 that I found interesting and briefly goes into the versions.

http://www.6sn7.com/

Berto · « **Reply #1065 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 07:21 pm »

Hi just wanna re-clarify my humble opinion on TS rounds and Blk Coated Brimars. You see I listen to alot of "less then perfect" live music. So the TS rounds like any amazing piece of equipment well exposes a bad recording even more as it is the most revealing and open and dynamic, loudest 6SN7 by a margin. (that ive heard)

For a perfect recording, esp with alot goin on the TS round plates I agree are numero uno but with alot of my less then perfect recordings I prefer the more lush and nearly as open Brimars.

So more of a which one is gonna be better on your ears at the time, depending on listening tastes. Bottom line is IMHO 6SN7's are KING, put the 61NPs back in after my first week w/adapters and they lasted all of 2minutes. Like that old Wendys commercial "Where's The Beef"!

JerryH · « **Reply #1066 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 04:40 am »

I've had the Raytheon VT-231's in use for about a week. They brought a more dynamic, live feel over the 6H30 DR's. It was as if the room itself was different, like going from an acoustically dead room to one more lively. Everything had more punch, dynamics, but still controlled. They were paired with the metal base gz34 because I couldn't bring myself to pull the EML out of my SWLP. I could easily live with them, but of course the audio nervosa virus runs deep. I had a pair of Tung Sol's enroute and they have been in use a couple days now. They aren't as dynamic, but are more refined and musical in every other way. Yea.. they are still on top. But IMO the Raytheon's are worth considering if it's a choice between them and your mortgage. I could also see them being preferred in a too polite system.
The EML seems to breathe life wherever they go. In the SWLP, the same improvements noted carried over as well. Particularly, the phono stage was more relaxed but not in a laid back way. Effortless may be a better way to describe it. Soundstage still more pointed and overall sound more organic, natural. That's comparing directly to the gz34. When the EML was in the Transporter, I tended to favor it. But when moved to the SWLP, I preferred the vinyl.
So no real surprise here.. just more viable options and possibilities.

Berto · « **Reply #1067 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 10:28 pm »

Anyone know if I can run a ECC34 , same base as 6SN7 but not sure if compatible with the MWTP?

ted_b · « **Reply #1068 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 10:39 pm »

Dunno. Let's hold off until Dan replies (or someone who has tried). It's not an exact replacement in all applications, and has much lower plate resistances.

On Brendan's site, about a third of the way down on this page, is an electrical comparison. Weird, though; the comments directly above the chart aren't exactly reflected in the chart.

https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7.htm

Bob's (tubeseller) site certainly speaks highly of the Mullards, though.

http://www.tubeseller.com/catalog/i5.html

Berto · « **Reply #1069 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 11:59 pm »

I'm really getting a education on these exotic 6SN7 variations. It might very well be that this tube is more sexy and rare then it actually GOOD audio wise. I read this in Hi-Fi form FWIW:

"THe ECC34, IMO, isn't a good audio tube; in fact, it was never designed with audio fidelity in mind (unlike many 6SN7s)."

He went on to say you can do better with the 6SN7s and that the tube is more sexy then anything else. So for $100ptube and up I think I will hold off for now.
Other sellers like tubeworld call ECC33 tops and a replacement for the 6SN7GT so that looks like the tube to prob search for if it is COMPATIBLE.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #1070 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 07:12 am »

I bit the bullet tonight and ordered a pair of TS roundplates.

Now, I have to get some adapters. Anybody get the released version from Wayne? Or anyone using the Taiwanese version without having to modify the holes in the TP? (just want to be sure it can be done)...

This one is for George... where did you get your tube dampers? Did you say they were made out of Titanium?
I have read that 6SN7 tubes tend to be more microphonic than their little 6CG7 brothers. If they are not too much money it might make sense to try them out, plus I think they look pretty cool.

zybar · « **Reply #1071 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 11:01 am »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 23 Mar 2009, 07:12 am

I bit the bullet tonight and ordered a pair of TS roundplates. Now, I have to get some adapters. Anybody get the released version from Wayne? Or anyone using the Taiwanese version without having to modify the holes in the TP? (just want to be sure it can be done)...

This one is for George... where did you get your tube dampers? Did you say they were made out of Titanium?
I have read that 6SN7 tubes tend to be more microphonic than their little 6CG7 brothers. If they are not too much money it might make sense to try them out, plus I think they look pretty cool.

Herbie's (http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/)

You want the Ultrasonic 30 at $14.95 each.

Money well spent in my book.

BTW, I don't think the 6SN7 tubes are more microphonic.

George

Philistine · « **Reply #1072 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 11:19 am »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 23 Mar 2009, 07:12 am

I bit the bullet tonight and ordered a pair of TS roundplates. Now, I have to get some adapters. Anybody get the released version from Wayne? Or anyone using the Taiwanese version without having to modify the holes in the TP? (just want to be sure it can be done)...

This one is for George... where did you get your tube dampers? Did you say they were made out of Titanium?
I have read that 6SN7 tubes tend to be more microphonic than their little 6CG7 brothers. If they are not too much money it might make sense to try them out, plus I think they look pretty cool.

Greg, the signal tube hole modification was only an issue Ted and I had - you should be fine.
Phil

ted_b · « **Reply #1073 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 11:36 am »

I also use the Herbie's ultrasonics (posted about it when i got them). I have a pair for the 6SN7's and one huge one (70) for my EML. Don't use Herbie's earlier versions here; the titanium ultrasonics have no muffling or deadening qualities to the sound, just a nice elimination of microphonics and dampening of resonances.

jwes · « **Reply #1074 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 04:56 pm »

Hi all,

Well, just a quick update: my current combo of a '59 fat black base Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 and the wonderful TS rounds is hitting on so many fronts - including punch, deeper and tighter base, clean highs, etc. As I mentioned quickly before, my wife told me it sounded like a "record player" - which in her words is a huge compliment, as she is quite sensitive to listening fatigue. The combo is giving me a smoother sound. One word that came to mind when I inserted the 6SN7's with Wayne's adapaters was "drive". They replaced a pair of DR's and just seemed to take control and drive this thing. I felt these tubes were giving me the return on my investments in amps, cables, etc. I finally felt it all... Also, I really wonder if the fat black base rectifier is somewhat under-appreciated.

Still, I'm quite interested in the EML. One thing I could go for is a bit more "liquid" in the mids. I've read through all the posts obviously, but I'm kind of curious - for those that went the EML route, did you hear an immediate change for the better, or did it take a typical break in time (100 hours or so)? I can't expect the EML to provide the kind of upgrade that the TS rounds did (that doesn't seem possible). I think that after the super power supply upgrade and the TS rounds, the rectifier hasn't done as much for some (David went back to GZ37's I think). Anyway, just curious - when you put in the EML, was it an immediate "wow" or did it take some good break in time. Not a very scientific approach, but it can give an indication...

Jim

Philistine · « **Reply #1075 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 08:30 pm »

Quote from: jwes on 23 Mar 2009, 04:56 pm

Hi all,

Well, just a quick update: my current combo of a '59 fat black base Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 and the wonderful TS rounds is hitting on so many fronts - including punch, deeper and tighter base, clean highs, etc. As I mentioned quickly before, my wife told me it sounded like a "record player" - which in her words is a huge compliment, as she is quite sensitive to listening fatigue. The combo is giving me a smoother sound. One word that came to mind when I inserted the 6SN7's with Wayne's adapaters was "drive". They replaced a pair of DR's and just seemed to take control and drive this thing. I felt these tubes were giving me the return on my investments in amps, cables, etc. I finally felt it all... Also, I really wonder if the fat black base rectifier is somewhat under-appreciated.

Still, I'm quite interested in the EML. One thing I could go for is a bit more "liquid" in the mids. I've read through all the posts obviously, but I'm kind of curious - for those that went the EML route, did you hear an immediate change for the better, or did it take a typical break in time (100 hours or so)? I can't expect the EML to provide the kind of upgrade that the TS rounds did (that doesn't seem possible). I think that after the super power supply upgrade and the TS rounds, the rectifier hasn't done as much for some (David went back to GZ37's I think). Anyway, just curious - when you put in the EML, was it an immediate "wow" or did it take some good break in time. Not a very scientific approach, but it can give an indication...

Jim

Jim, I heard a major difference immediately with the EML and this was replacing a mb GZ34.
This difference was with 6H30's/6N1P's/6CG7's and not the 6SN7's, it may be that the difference is less noticeable when you have the 6SN7's already installed.

Whatever the case the EML is new, affordable, available and has a guarantee - I see these as significant benefits as all MWTP owners can gain access to it if they wish.

Phil

jwes · « **Reply #1076 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 10:59 pm »

Quote from: Philistine on 23 Mar 2009, 08:30 pm

Whatever the case the EML is new, affordable, available and has a guarantee - I see these as significant benefits as all MWTP owners can gain access to it if they wish.

Phil

Hi Phil, yes there's no denying the value of that. It is cheaper also than fat base, metal base, etc. (at least NOS). In fact, I wish there were others like this (a modern TS round 6SN7 equivalent perhaps

?). Thanks for the thoughts - I'll report back on whether I have a "big bang" effect with the EML.

Jim

Bigfish · « **Reply #1077 on:** 24 Mar 2009, 12:06 am »

Quote

Still, I'm quite interested in the EML. One thing I could go for is a bit more "liquid" in the mids. I've read through all the posts obviously, but I'm kind of curious - for those that went the EML route, did you hear an immediate change for the better, or did it take a typical break in time (100 hours or so)? I can't expect the EML to provide the kind of upgrade that the TS rounds did (that doesn't seem possible). I think that after the super power supply upgrade and the TS rounds, the rectifier hasn't done as much for some (David went back to GZ37's I think). Anyway, just curious - when you put in the EML, was it an immediate "wow" or did it take some good break in time. Not a very scientific approach, but it can give an indication...

Jim

Jim:

I made the switch to the EML 5U4G from a MB-GZ34 when I was using the 6H30DR signal tubes. I did not critically listen for the first 90 hours but when I did sit down to listen it was obvious the EML had made a significant change. I listened for awhile and switched back to the MB and let it warm-up for 30 mins. or so. When I sat down to listen my reaction was "what happen to the music?" I quickly switched back to the EML and I knew I had found my rectifier tube. Some time later I switched the DRs out and replaced them with 6CG7's which I ran until I replaced them with 6SN7's (currently the Tung-Sol Round Plates). I have not switched back to the MB-GZ34 with the Tung-Sol Round Plates and therefore cannot testify to the current level of impact from the EML 5U4G. I am just so happy with the music I don't want to change anything!

Ken

funkmonkey · « **Reply #1078 on:** 24 Mar 2009, 03:26 am »

Thanks for the all the info guys. I am anxious to hear what you are all gushing over.

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #1079 on:** 24 Mar 2009, 03:43 am »

Holy 6SN7, Batman!

I thought these were extinct! So which one of you high rollers are going to spring for the ultimate 6SN7 (33S30's) paired off with a very unusual big-bottle 5AR4 variant that I've also never seen before? I guess this must be the seller in Greece you folks are buying from.