ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!

Berto · « **Reply #1000 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 06:45 pm »

I leave mine is sleep mode, run my tube amp (also takes me good 30min for 12 tubes to sound good) , joule pre and MWTP from 6pm to midnight, and then shut it all down with the MWTP in sleep mode.
If I'm gonna be up REAL late and prob not able to turn system off, I will hook up to home theater receiver and throw in the cheap GE rectifier since I wanna conserve tube useage if I'm gonna be eventually sleeping with music on.
I'm in the I want my EML to last camp, I might eventually try that solid plate EML since I did read somewhere in this thread its about ten rows further up in sound diff.

Bigfish · « **Reply #1001 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 08:26 pm »

Quote

Marco, I see a number of variables in the tube selection process - personal taste, other equipment (synergy) and room etc. When we started the early tube rolling activities the preferences on rectifier tubes seemed to shift into two broad camps: 5U4G and GZ34, with the individual preferences being the Tung Sol 5U4G and the metal base GZ34. Prices for both then started to increase and most of the available tubes at a 'reasonable' price were used, for example a used metal base GZ34 was around $200 compared with a NOS at over $600. Along comes the EML 5U4G, which most of us find combines all the strengths of the 5U4G and GZ34, and also adds a dose of something else in addition. Furthermore a significant buying risk is eliminated as the performance is consistent, it's available from a reputable source, the price is fixed and it has a guarantee. In contrast I have a boxful of used vintage tubes, some that have failed and some that are going strong. Given the view that it's considered a strong performer and a 'safe' purchase it's very easy to see its attraction and why the majority of the owners do consider it THAT much better, you get the best rectifier tube with minimal risk. As most of us have started with the 5U4G/GZ34, and then moved on to the EML, it is difficult to take a backwards step. I consider these factors explain why the the EML tube is so popular.

As I currently cannot use the EML I've had to go back to using my other rectifier tubes, for the last few days I've been using an old Emerson 5U4G with the Tung Sol 6SN7 round plates - the combination works very well and makes great music. For those that cannot use the EML, or choose not to go down the EML path, I agree with George in that you can have a great sounding system based on these signal tubes. But again the downside with these tubes is that the buying risk is increased and you have to screw around with adapters, this increases the cost and each adapter currently available isn't perfect. This is one of the reasons I explored the Shuguang 6SN7 last week, if it worked out it would have given us the option of having a readily available, low risk, new tube without the risk and scarcity issues. Some of us are prepared to take greater risk and experiment, others just want to lower the risk and listen to music. I understand all this, unfortunately I fall in the high risk experimenters camp, with the wrong caps Crying or Very sad

I agree with Phil's comments about tubes for the Transporter. Some of us like to roll tubes looking for that special combination in our system. I did a bunch of research about mesh tubes before I purchased the EML 5U4G back in December. There is an old version of the 5U4G made in a mesh version that was produced back in the 40's and is suppose to sound fantastic. However, they are nearly impossible to find. I think 6 Moons ran a comparison of current vs. NOS versions 2 or 3 years ago. My guess is if you can find a NOS Version it will be much more than $235.00 for the EML Version and it won't have a warranty.

The thing with the ModWright Transporter is that it is truly a tube rollers dream! The tubes are easily to access and changing tubes definitely alter characteristics of the sound produced. My current preference is the EML 5U4G Mesh with the Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates. However, I can tell you for certain I will continue to experiment with other tubes. In the 11 months I have owned the ModWright no tube combination has lasted very long!

Ken

Berto · « **Reply #1002 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 11:45 pm »

Ken,
I will be VERY interested to see what you/we can come up with that can unseat your EML/TS combo in favor of another.
My octal adaptors will be here Thurs/Fri and my Brimar's prob arrive Fri/Sat I'm hoping. My buddy invited me to snowboard but obviously I will be too busy.

Ever since I got my MWTP I don't get out as much, nor do I care too. aa
I'm ready for a no holds barred USA vs UK 6SN7 BATTLE ROYALE!

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #1003 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 01:54 pm »

Many thanks, all, for the additional input on rectifiers. Is anyone using, or have you tried, the very reasonably priced Svet 5U3C (military version of 5U4G)?

A few scattered responses to what's been said since my last post: As far as the surety of brand new tubes outlasting NOS; Over half of my 25+ years in this crazy hobby have been spent pursuing tube options, especially on the amp/preamp side. I've had more new Russian tubes fail early (spontaneously) than any other variety, or any NOS, for some reason. I'm very well acquainted with the 5AR4 tubes as they were the rectifier in my several of my favorite components for many years (and still use them in my 36.5). I've tried a few NOS Mullards in my TP and none seem to go will with the 6CG7's to my ears - they tend to soften things out and almost make the music sound a bit slow. I too was under the impression that the 5AR4 was a hearty (long-lasting) tube, and cannot recall any gross failures in that tube in many years of using them. 2000 hours is definitely not what I'd consider long-lasting by any means. For the EML tube that's about .12 cents an hour (if anyone's counting). And I thought my WE 300B's were expensive to run at around .05 cents and hour! Leaving tube gear on 24/7 makes no sense to me - you shorten the useful life of tubes that could otherwise be brought to within 90-100% of their optimum performance within 30minutes to an hour of warmup time. Solid state amps running in class A, often will benefit from leaving it on 24/7 in my experience (in those cases a short warmup will not compare to 24 hours of being on). YMMV / IMHO. The juries out for me on other SS circuits. I do not leave my TP on though.

Thanks again for the input.

zybar · « **Reply #1004 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 01:59 pm »

Quote from: Marco Prozzo on 11 Mar 2009, 01:54 pm

Many thanks, all, for the additional input on rectifiers. Is anyone using, or have you tried, the very reasonably priced Svet 5U3C (military version of 5U4G)?

A few scattered responses to what's been said since my last post: As far as the surety of brand new tubes outlasting NOS; Over half of my 25+ years in this crazy hobby have been spent pursuing tube options, especially on the amp/preamp side. I've had more new Russian tubes fail early (spontaneously) than any other variety, or any NOS, for some reason. I'm very well acquainted with the 5AR4 tubes as they were the rectifier in my several of my favorite components for many years (and still use them in my 36.5). I've tried a few NOS Mullards in my TP and none seem to go will with the 6CG7's to my ears - they tend to soften things out and almost make the music sound a bit slow. I too was under the impression that the 5AR4 was a hearty (long-lasting) tube, and cannot recall any gross failures in that tube in many years of using them. 2000 hours is definitely not what I'd consider long-lasting by any means. For the EML tube that's about .12 cents an hour (if anyone's counting). And I thought my WE 300B's were expensive to run at around .05 cents and hour! Leaving tube gear on 24/7 makes no sense to me - you shorten the useful life of tubes that could otherwise be brought to within 90-100% of their optimum performance within 30minutes to an hour of warmup time. Solid state amps running in class A, often will benefit from leaving it on 24/7 in my experience (in those cases a short warmup will not compare to 24 hours of being on). YMMV / IMHO. The juries out for me on other SS circuits. I do not leave my TP on though.

Thanks again for the input.

Marco,

For $60 you can get the excellent BEL GZ34 tube here:

http://www.tubemonger.com/1970s_Bel_NOS_NIB_GZ34_5AR4_Philips_Mullard_OEM_p/3.htm

While $60 isn't "cheap", I think it is a better all-around tube than the NOS Metal Base that goes for $200+.

George

Berto · « **Reply #1005 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 03:23 pm »

I'm new to tubes and high end equipment(2years) but something tells me that in a year George of tubesusa will still have same EML going strong w/3000hrs. I doubt they would put a 2000/12 month warranty on a tube that will last only 2000hrs. That would leave too much room for having to do alot of replacements.
Since people's usage on this tube will vary as well as lifespan on each tube istelf, it's just good business to under deliver in promises and over deliver in expectations.

orientalexpress · « **Reply #1006 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 03:59 pm »

i have EML tubes for awhile now with 100uf cap,.what damage does this cap cost beside the tubes?

lapsan

owenmd · « **Reply #1007 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 05:52 pm »

George.... thanks for the lead on the BEL34.... I just picked one up. I sold my last Blackburn GZ34 as I wasn't overly attached and have a cryoed TAD34 for comparison.... it will probably find a home in my Carina amp eventually.

Lost my beloved Transporter back to Amboy this week for a full Monty soup-up job with everlasting EML harmony

Mark

valvesaglowin · « **Reply #1008 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 06:14 pm »

Lap:
You are asking for trouble when using your EML 5U4G under the current circumstance that surrounds your unit. What could happen?

1)The total demise of your rectifier tube

2)You blow a fuse

Beyond that scenario, that's about it. However that's enough. Contact Dan at Modwright about your unit!

orientalexpress · « **Reply #1009 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 06:40 pm »

Thanks george,

will contact dan later

lapsan

Berto · « **Reply #1010 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 12:54 am »

Got my custom made octal adaptors from FL tonite. Well built looking and all excited to plug and play only to find out they wont fit through the MWTP cover holes

I simply called the very nice man and he apologized and told me he will send me out at his expense a pair of 9pin socket extenders , which will solve that problem. Guy is a class act and would happily give out his info if anyone wants to PM me. He guarantees everything and reasonable as well.
I did say I was excited to try my octals right, so 5minutes later I finally got to see my MWTP in the BUFF! I was not to be denied.
First off put the RCA Grey Glass VT-231's same ones I have a quad of in my Amp. I noticed off the bat def not as loud as 61NPs , def fuller sounding but way too tubey, lacking dynamics and was just disappointed with the sound, preferred my 61NPs at this point.
What I read that mixing and matching 6SN7s to get best results started to ring true, well at least that's what I was hoping for when I reached for the round plates an hour later. (wanted to warm up RCAs before I threw them to the curb).
So in go the famed TS rounds and can you say WHAM BAM THANK YOU MAM!

Tubey slow sound was replaced with fast, dynamic, full MUSIC and the most resolving music I have heard by far. In my system I'm simply amazed how much of a diff. these TS rounds made. Had way too much RCA sound goin on, and that syrupy sound had a bad effect in both amp as well as source.
With the TS rounds, I actually had to pause the music b/c I had NO IDEA where these new sounds were coming from. So when I realized they was silence outside my room I smiled knowing I had the most resolving sound I have ever heard. Like the review states if it's in the music you will hear it, and I might add distinctively.
My 50s Brimars will be here from UK by Monday latest, I already know they are not as fast/aggressive sounding as the TS rounds but to better them will be a daunting task, it might just be a flavor/system/music choice decision more so then a clear cut which is best. Anyway will be happy to review those as well asap. Plus will be rolling them in the amp as well as source and trying all diff possible combos with RCA's and TS rounds before I decide on best combo.
Stay tuned for Brimar vs TS review!

jwes · « **Reply #1011 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 01:25 pm »

Just curious - those those who purchased tubes from the Greek ebay seller, how long did it take to receive your tubes? I completed my transaction on March 2, and nothing has shown up. Should I be concerned? Normally, I wouldn't note this quite yet (from Greece), but he said he uses 1st class airmail to the states (2-3 days), and from there into USPS. So 10+ days later, I'd hope to have these... Thanks for any data on how long it took for you!

Bigfish · « **Reply #1012 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 01:50 pm »

Quote from: jwes on 13 Mar 2009, 01:25 pm

Just curious - those those who purchased tubes from the Greek ebay seller, how long did it take to receive your tubes? I completed my transaction on March 2, and nothing has shown up. Should I be concerned? Normally, I wouldn't note this quite yet (from Greece), but he said he uses 1st class airmail to the states (2-3 days), and from there into USPS. So 10+ days later, I'd hope to have these... Thanks for any data on how long it took for you!

It took mine approximately 2 weeks from the time he notified me he had shipped the tubes. Mine came extremely well packed and an elephant would have had to have stomped on the box to have damaged the tubes. Your tubes will probably show up by Monday.

Please let us know your thoughts on how they sound.

Ken

arthurs · « **Reply #1013 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 01:57 pm »

Is there a link to the Greek Connection?

ted_b · « **Reply #1014 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 02:02 pm »

Jwes,
Berto asked this question a few pages back. Here's my reply:
I won a pair of RCA VT-231's from him Feb 3. They arrived in Cleveland OH on the following Monday, Feb 9!!!!

Berto · « **Reply #1015 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 02:23 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 13 Mar 2009, 02:02 pm

Jwes,
Berto asked this question a few pages back. Here's my reply:
I won a pair of RCA VT-231's from him Feb 3. They arrived in Cleveland OH on the following Monday, Feb 9!!!!

Took me 10 business days to NY , so it varies. They are really addicting , did'nt want my first listening session to end.

Philistine · « **Reply #1016 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 02:30 pm »

Mine took about 12 days, and an Elephant HAD stepped on the outside box. When I opened the package it was like one of those Russian matryoshka dolls with layer after layer of bubble wrap and internal boxes. The final box was the original tube box completely intact, I found having an original box dated 1942 to be really cool.

I'm sure they'll arrive in great condition.

jwes · « **Reply #1017 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 03:30 pm »

Guys, thanks for all the responses! A slightly building worry has turned back into excitement!!!

JG2 · « **Reply #1018 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 05:14 pm »

15 days to WA state first shipment, 8 days second purchase so it does vary.

Audioclyde · « **Reply #1019 on:** 14 Mar 2009, 12:00 pm »

My octal adaptors arrived from Wayne yesterday afternoon (Thanks Wayne

, super fast shipping & service). I had some other network issues going on, so after installing the adaptors/6SN7's in the MW Transporter, my listening time was hit and miss last night. Got the network issues resolved and started a little earnest listening this morning.

I wish (sort of) that I had some new and great insight to add, but so far my reaction falls right in line with the gang's experience. I initially had my TS round plates installed in my Cary SLI-80 integrated amp, so my first octals in the MW Trpter were a nice pair of Raytheon VT-231's (I had been running some TS blackplate 6CG7's as I tend to like their nice warm sound, sometimes rolling some Raytheon blackplates in which I really like as well). With the Raytheon VT=231's in, it seemed there was just 'more' of everything, plus I had to lower the gain setting on my sub (I have JM Lab Micro Utopia speakers augmented by a REL Strata III sub) by a couple of notches! After an hour or so, I couldn't resist, so I swapped the 6SN7's--putting the Raytheons in my amp and the TS round plates in the Transporter.

OK, the TS round plates are magic!!! Another decent step up, even over the Raytheon's, everything is better--more detail but still incredibly smooth and just so musical. Sounds even more like live voices/music to me.

I also have a couple pair of Ken Rad VT-231's that are well thought of in the 6SN7 world, and need to give them a try----but that would mean prying those TS round plates out of the MW Transporter

, and right now I can't bear to do it!!!

Just for reference, my MW Trptr is only a couple of months old, and I'm running the EML mesh plate rectifier in it (fortunately given my new unit, no issues on the compatibility for the EML rectifier). The EML is a great tube and deserves all the accolades that have been written about it in this thread, however, to me in my system, the step from the 6CG7 output tubes to the 6SN7's made 3x as much difference/improvement as swapping the rectifiers!!

If we find tube combos that consistently beat the EML mesh rectifier and the TS round plate 6SN7's as far as multiple people's preference, I'm going to be amazed. Right now I'm wondering how I can get much better sound; I'm a happy camper!!

Randy