[funkmonkey]

Thanks for the offer Phil, you are very kind, but I'll just pick something up as they are not too expensive, and pop up on ebay now and then.  You say the RCA blackplate 6GC7 might be a good one, any particular years/codes I should keep an eye out for?  I thought that the 6FQ7 was just an updated label for a 6CG7, as many seem to carry both labels starting in the 70's.  Are there any 6FQ7s (specifically) that I should keep an eye out for?

I'm going to try and give my wife the hard sell to let me put the TP on top of the cabinet, so I can have space to try the EML.  I'll have to take her out for dinner, and get her drunk before I pitch it.   Most likely just getting her to agree with it will cost more than the tube!  At least I am enjoying my current set-up, and any changes this way will have to wait for my tax refund anyway.

Rydenfan-  any updates to your thoughts about the EML?

[Berto]

Still running the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates via Wayne's (Bolder Cable) adapters, but I thought I would post a few pics.






NICE system! It appears you are running direct from amps to MWTP, that is interesting if that is the case, wondering if you have tried the preamp route? Also also notice you have one of those old fashioned disc spinners, does that get any play?

Here is an updated picture of the system from the listening spot:




George

[ted_b]

Berto,
That IS a preamp that is directly under it, with "CD" listed as the selected input.  It's the Plinius pre.  George used to go direct, but the addition of the pre took his system to whole new levels.

[zybar]

Berto,
That IS a preamp that is directly under it, with "CD" listed as the selected input.  It's the Plinius pre.  George used to go direct, but the addition of the pre took his system to whole new levels.

You are correct Ted on both accounts.

The preamp is a Plinius M8.

I have updated my system page with the latest info and it can be seen here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=711

George

[mikel51]

what's in the plastic bag, and what's it for?......looks like a bag of spaghettii

[Philistine]

Thanks for the offer Phil, you are very kind, but I'll just pick something up as they are not too expensive, and pop up on ebay now and then.  You say the RCA blackplate 6GC7 might be a good one, any particular years/codes I should keep an eye out for?  I thought that the 6FQ7 was just an updated label for a 6CG7, as many seem to carry both labels starting in the 70's.  Are there any 6FQ7s (specifically) that I should keep an eye out for?

I'm going to try and give my wife the hard sell to let me put the TP on top of the cabinet, so I can have space to try the EML.  I'll have to take her out for dinner, and get her drunk before I pitch it.   Most likely just getting her to agree with it will cost more than the tube!  At least I am enjoying my current set-up, and any changes this way will have to wait for my tax refund anyway.

Rydenfan-  any updates to your thoughts about the EML?

Greg, I'm lucky as the 6112 tubes in my preamp are soldered in - which puts the halt on any tube rolling opportunities.  You guys with the 36.5 and the TP have a multitude of tube rolling combination's and permutations, so feedback from other 36.5 owners such as Ted, David etc might be more valid for you than my tube rolling exercises?  Of the tubes I mentioned, they are all minor 'tweaks' that may or may not fine tune what you currently have to your satisfaction.  Whereas I regard both the EML and the 6SN7 more of a step change in their own right and, I believe, have a greater chance of giving you the sound you are looking for.

If you're reasonably satisfied with the sound you have at the moment I would enjoy it for the time being.  This will then give you time to get more data points on the EML and the 6SN7 from other users, save up the $ required to intoxicate Mrs Funkmonkey (if necessary) and also let the rest of the tube rolling crew go in different directions.  It's also interesting that some rollers started with the EML, others started with 6SN7's, and it appears that we are tending towards similar conclusions.

[mikel51]

6H30DR vs 6CG7 RCA clear top--a contrarian view

I received my EML mesh tube a couple of weeks ago and immediately decided that I liked it best of all....just like everyone else who has done this....I guess my metal base 5AR4 can go up for sale on Ebay.

When I installed it, I think I also did a quick check of 6H30 vs 6CG7.  I left the RCA 6CG7 in there and pretty much forgot about it, but somehow was under the impression that I was using the 6H30.  I am of course awaiting the octal adapter so that I can explore 6SN7s.  Today, I took a look and saw that I had the 6H30 sitting on the sidelines and the RCAs were installed.  I switched in the 6H30s and immediately felt more comfortable and at home.  A bit of harshness faded, but the bigger deal was richer tones, especially vocals and woodwinds.  There was also a more dimensional textured soundstage.  No contest for me.  I do agree that I might have given up a bit of resolution, but in my system, the 6H30 was more musical.

waiting for Tung sol round plates, octal adapter, and the time and energy to compare a bunch of different 6sn7 variants.

[Berto]

Berto,
That IS a preamp that is directly under it, with "CD" listed as the selected input.  It's the Plinius pre.  George used to go direct, but the addition of the pre took his system to whole new levels.

You are correct Ted on both accounts.

The preamp is a Plinius M8.

I have updated my system page with the latest info and it can be seen here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=711

George

Kool piece of equiment, very future-istic, fits in nicely with the transporter look. Yeh you really do need a pre as Dan will be the first to tell you. Piece looks so kool I had no clue what it was.. I heard same co's amp powering a pair of totem mani-2s and accuphase cd player and it sounded divine!

[Philistine]

6H30DR vs 6CG7 RCA clear top--a contrarian view

I received my EML mesh tube a couple of weeks ago and immediately decided that I liked it best of all....just like everyone else who has done this....I guess my metal base 5AR4 can go up for sale on Ebay.

When I installed it, I think I also did a quick check of 6H30 vs 6CG7.  I left the RCA 6CG7 in there and pretty much forgot about it, but somehow was under the impression that I was using the 6H30.  I am of course awaiting the octal adapter so that I can explore 6SN7s.  Today, I took a look and saw that I had the 6H30 sitting on the sidelines and the RCAs were installed.  I switched in the 6H30s and immediately felt more comfortable and at home.  A bit of harshness faded, but the bigger deal was richer tones, especially vocals and woodwinds.  There was also a more dimensional textured soundstage.  No contest for me.  I do agree that I might have given up a bit of resolution, but in my system, the 6H30 was more musical.

waiting for Tung sol round plates, octal adapter, and the time and energy to compare a bunch of different 6sn7 variants.

It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences,  system synergies and rooms.

[zybar]

It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences,  system synergies and rooms.

Phil,

Until I hear the EML in my system, I actually feel the opposite.  As stated previously, adding the 6SN7's into the mix have had a bigger impact in shaping the sound of the TP than selecting different rectifier tubes.

Of course, this might change for me once I hear the EML.

I am also not sure how the Platinum or Hyper-Drive mod impacts all the tube rolling.  My unit is still "stock" and hasn't been upgraded yet.

George

[Bigfish]

My ModWright Transporter has the Platinum Mods and I replaced the standard fuses with HiFi Tuning Fuses.  Prior to Dan performing the upgrades my favorite tubes was the MB GZ-34 Rectifier and 6H30DRs.  After the upgrades I found the DRs produced a boomy bass and I switched in the 6CG7's that the DRs replaced prior to the upgrades.  The boominess was gone and I discovered upper end detail that I was missing with the DRs.  Based on this experience I felt the Platinum mods definitely had an impact on the sound quality from the Transporter.

It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences,  system synergies and rooms.

Many of you know that I was one of the early purchasers of the EML Mesh 5U4G.  Upon initial installation I had to question myself because it sounded so much better than the MB.  Over several weeks I switched the MB back into the system 3 times to make certain what I thought I was hearing for differences was real.  Well, as many of you have discovered this tube is a real winner and as Phil noted is a significant upgrade over the previous favorite rectifier - the MB GZ-34.

I have experimented with the 6SN7 tubes over the past week and a half.  Initially my only pair of 6SN7's were RCA VT-231 GTs with black plates and smoked glass from the 40's and I received a pair of Tung-Sol Round Plates from Greece on Saturday.  To be honest my experience with the RCA's had me upset at myself for jumping, so early, on the 6SN7 band wagon.  The RCA VT-231's increased the sound stage and produced a warmer mid-range but upper detail was lost versus the 6CG7's.  Enter the Tung-Sol Round Plates and even not broken-in they are the real deal.  With these tubes my system is producing music with detail and a seductive quality I have not heard before.  I have a pair of the NOS Russian Tubes on order but based on what I am hearing with the Round Plates they, unfortunately, deserve to be desirable tubes to own. 

In conclusion if you decide to pursue the 6SN7's you are doing so to produce what you hope will be better sound than you currently have.  If you go for the 6SN7's you, unfortunately, will never be happy until you at least try the Tung-Sol Round Plates with the EML Mesh 5U4G.  Sorry guys, but this tube rolling is not only addictive, it is damn expensive. 

Ken

[rydenfan]

It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences,  system synergies and rooms.

Phil,

Until I hear the EML in my system, I actually feel the opposite.  As stated previously, adding the 6SN7's into the mix have had a bigger impact in shaping the sound of the TP than selecting different rectifier tubes.

Of course, this might change for me once I hear the EML.

I am also not sure how the Platinum or Hyper-Drive mod impacts all the tube rolling.  My unit is still "stock" and hasn't been upgraded yet.

George

George, I am in agreement with you. The 6SN7's were a bigger sonic leap in my system than the EML. That being said the EML is still currently my favorite rectifier.

Ken, glad to see you are enjoying the Tung Sols 

[ndeslions]

My ModWright Transporter has the Platinum Mods and I replaced the standard fuses with HiFi Tuning Fuses.  Prior to Dan performing the upgrades my favorite tubes was the MB GZ-34 Rectifier and 6H30DRs.  After the upgrades I found the DRs produced a boomy bass and I switched in the 6CG7's that the DRs replaced prior to the upgrades.  The boominess was gone and I discovered upper end detail that I was missing with the DRs.  Based on this experience I felt the Platinum mods definitely had an impact on the sound quality from the Transporter.

It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences,  system synergies and rooms.

Many of you know that I was one of the early purchasers of the EML Mesh 5U4G.  Upon initial installation I had to question myself because it sounded so much better than the MB.  Over several weeks I switched the MB back into the system 3 times to make certain what I thought I was hearing for differences was real.  Well, as many of you have discovered this tube is a real winner and as Phil noted is a significant upgrade over the previous favorite rectifier - the MB GZ-34.

I have experimented with the 6SN7 tubes over the past week and a half.  Initially my only pair of 6SN7's were RCA VT-231 GTs with black plates and smoked glass from the 40's and I received a pair of Tung-Sol Round Plates from Greece on Saturday.  To be honest my experience with the RCA's had me upset at myself for jumping, so early, on the 6SN7 band wagon.  The RCA VT-231's increased the sound stage and produced a warmer mid-range but upper detail was lost versus the 6CG7's.  Enter the Tung-Sol Round Plates and even not broken-in they are the real deal.  With these tubes my system is producing music with detail and a seductive quality I have not heard before.  I have a pair of the NOS Russian Tubes on order but based on what I am hearing with the Round Plates they, unfortunately, deserve to be desirable tubes to own. 

In conclusion if you decide to pursue the 6SN7's you are doing so to produce what you hope will be better sound than you currently have.  If you go for the 6SN7's you, unfortunately, will never be happy until you at least try the Tung-Sol Round Plates with the EML Mesh 5U4G.  Sorry guys, but this tube rolling is not only addictive, it is damn expensive. 

Ken

You could try some Raytheon VT231 and the best 6SN7 (to my ears) : the Mullard ECC33 Fat base.

I own a lot of 6SN7 : RCA 5692, TungSol round plates, Raytheon VT231, RCA black plates, RCA VT231 smoked, Sylvania Chrome dome, Sylvania 6SN7W small bottle, Sylvania 6SN7W tall bottle, Mullard ECC33, Mullard CV2821 (military version of the ECC33), GEC B65, Sylvania VT231, STC Factory CV1988, Mullard CV1988, Philips 6SN7 and a few other...

By the way i had no chance to listen to the EML 5U4 yet (out of stock here) but the best rectfier i heard so far is the Coke bottle CV378 from Cossor or Mullard, WAY better than the MB Philips.

I currently use a pair of shielded 6CG7 RCA clear top (the 6H30DR are too dark and miss a lot of informations) with the CV370 Coke bottle and it's just great.

[zybar]

I have experimented with the 6SN7 tubes over the past week and a half.  Initially my only pair of 6SN7's were RCA VT-231 GTs with black plates and smoked glass from the 40's and I received a pair of Tung-Sol Round Plates from Greece on Saturday.  To be honest my experience with the RCA's had me upset at myself for jumping, so early, on the 6SN7 band wagon.  The RCA VT-231's increased the sound stage and produced a warmer mid-range but upper detail was lost versus the 6CG7's.  Enter the Tung-Sol Round Plates and even not broken-in they are the real deal.  With these tubes my system is producing music with detail and a seductive quality I have not heard before.  I have a pair of the NOS Russian Tubes on order but based on what I am hearing with the Round Plates they, unfortunately, deserve to be desirable tubes to own. 

In conclusion if you decide to pursue the 6SN7's you are doing so to produce what you hope will be better sound than you currently have.  If you go for the 6SN7's you, unfortunately, will never be happy until you at least try the Tung-Sol Round Plates with the EML Mesh 5U4G.  Sorry guys, but this tube rolling is not only addictive, it is damn expensive. 

Ken

Ken,

While I totally agree that the Tung Sol Round Plates are the cat's meow, you can get some excellent 6SN7's/VT-231's for a significantly smaller investment.  I would suggest people try NOS Ken-Rad, Raytheon, or Sylvania VT-231's.  Any of these tubes will give you some really great sound at a much more reasonable price.

George

[Philistine]

One of the issues with the vintage tubes is that we all have different data points, for example our mb GZ34's/5U4's etc may be different versions and have differing past histories.   Whereas with the new EML the performance will be more constant and represents a common base performance.  What this results in is that we all have different deltas when we compare our vintage rectifier tube with the EML.

As I mentioned earlier, we are coming at this from different directions - some from the rectifier tube and others from the signal tube.  But we are all drawing the same, or similar conclusion, and that is the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 is a killer combination.  Whatever approach we take the MWTP is a very engaging and enjoyable musical source.  I've kept the EML/TS 6SN7 as a constant over the last 4 days and it just sounds better and better, my tube rolling days are over...........until we find something better

George, Dan's view on the Hyper-Drive mod was that it should not impact our tube choice preference.  In the beginning I thought he was wrong, but ultimately agreed with him.  That's probably why he's Mr Wright.

Phil

 

[zybar]

George, I am in agreement with you. The 6SN7's were a bigger sonic leap in my system than the EML. That being said the EML is still currently my favorite rectifier.

Ken, glad to see you are enjoying the Tung Sols 

BTW, my favorite rectifier (I haven't heard the EML yet) is now the BEL GZ34 5AR4 - 1970s NOS.  In my system, it is more balanced top to bottom than the MB GZ34 and doesn't have the lower mid-range hump.  I also think it is a little more extended on top.  Even better news...you can get this tube for around $60.   

George

[ted_b]

I've posted from the start of the hyper mod discussion that, to me, the mod DOES in fact change our tube rolling.  I posted that the DR's are now completely out of the question for me (in the TP) as they impart too much of a boomy bass and thick midrange in combo with the hypermod.  The hypermod added so much needed weight and authority (as a good power supply upgrade should) that it made the signal tube decisions different IMO.  I told Dan that we agree to disagree.  Now I see Ken posting about it (the DR exclusion) and applaud his golden ears.   

Really, all of us have collectively nailed it; to the point where this tube rolling is getting down to some empirical truths...yikes, does this mean we've discovered the combo and can now rest our wallets and rolling fingers?  The EML is a no-brainer, and is a consistent performer for all of us cuz it's a consistent production tube.  I'm very surprised that my No. 2 fave, the RCA VT-231 loses some detail for Ken, but it's moot, cuz the TS round plates win anyway (my own real pair arrive this week from Brent).  But I bought the RCA VT-231's for $70/pair and could live with them if I hadn't heard the round plates.  I also have the correct pair of Russian 6H8C's coming, but plan on using them only if my system changes elsewhere.  George's comments on the Raytheons et al, and other suggestions, like my posts about the $40 RCA silver labels, for example, give great options for the small budget combos (although the EML is still mandatory    ).

So, the big issues, as I see them, are these:
1) where can you put the MW TP on you rack, so the EML has room to breathe (think 8" spacing above the cover)
2) are the octal adapters worth it if you've found a magical EML/6CG7 combo (my opinion: yes!)
3) when can we get together and toast Dan and his Company?  I've never enjoyed listening to music as much as I do now!!!     And I always can use a reason to drink.

[NickS]

I've kept the EML/TS 6SN7 as a constant over the last 4 days and it just sounds better and better

Phil, Ken and I have followed the same path recently with the EML/TS 6SN7 and arrived at the same conclusion.  The combo just seems to do everything right with much to praise and little or nothing, aside from cost, to criticize.  Were I starting to roll tubes with a new MWTP today, this would be my first, and maybe last choice.  Going on day 6, I just can't seem to pry this combo out of the TP.

[jwes]

I've kept the EML/TS 6SN7 as a constant over the last 4 days and it just sounds better and better

Phil, Ken and I have followed the same path recently with the EML/TS 6SN7 and arrived at the same conclusion.  The combo just seems to do everything right with much to praise and little or nothing, aside from cost, to criticize.  Were I starting to roll tubes with a new MWTP today, this would be my first, and maybe last choice.  Going on day 6, I just can't seem to pry this combo out of the TP.

Hey guys,

Well, as my system is now a good way towards breaking in (I received the latest bybee/turbo mods around the same time as my Spectron Mk2 monos, Red Wine Audio Isabella, and Acoustic Systems Liveline power, interconnects, and speaker cables), I am hearing a big change towards a more meaty, density than I think is natural.  It used to work well, but now I'm wondering with system break in whether the Mullard GZ34 Fat Black Base and DR's as a combo are adding too much richness.  So, I'm likely following on the EML/6SN7 path to open things up.  So I am curious whether I am getting the price shopping right.  It seems that the TS round/oval with the blackened glass in good condition are upwards of $450.  Does this seem right or am I not finding something?  In the interim, I'm going to try Dan's original signal tubes again for the heck of it...

Jim

[Bigfish]

Hey guys,

Well, as my system is now a good way towards breaking in (I received the latest bybee/turbo mods around the same time as my Spectron Mk2 monos, Red Wine Audio Isabella, and Acoustic Systems Liveline power, interconnects, and speaker cables), I am hearing a big change towards a more meaty, density than I think is natural.  It used to work well, but now I'm wondering with system break in whether the Mullard GZ34 Fat Black Base and DR's as a combo are adding too much richness.  So, I'm likely following on the EML/6SN7 path to open things up.  So I am curious whether I am getting the price shopping right.  It seems that the TS round/oval with the blackened glass in good condition are upwards of $450.  Does this seem right or am I not finding something?  In the interim, I'm going to try Dan's original signal tubes again for the heck of it...

Jim

Jim:

I believe many of us were running the 6H30DRs for signal tubes prior to the Turbo Upgrades and Bybee Mods.  After the mods many of us found other signal tubes to sound better.  In my case I settled for a pair of RCA 6CG7's with the MB  GZ-34 and later with the EML Mesh 5U4G.  As stated in an earlier post I am finding the EML/Tung Sol Round Plate combination to be the best I have heard in my system.

Good Luck,

Ken