[ted_b]

Ted, if this combo proves to be your favorite combo (at least for today  ) what about a pair of the Emissions Labs in the 36.5 over the Tung-Sols??

The tube rolling world is full of possibilities.    

My first step will be to try one (EML) in the TP.  I'm warming up the clear tops right now instead of the 6N1P's, just to hear the differences tonight, while my memory is still fresh enough.  The wide soundstage and detail of the 6n1P's is preet cool, though, and I don;t remember hearing that in anything else, even my beloved Raytheons.  Phil wants me to try the cousin, the Russian 6N6P's, which i haven't installed since the upgrade. 

[zybar]

Ted, if this combo proves to be your favorite combo (at least for today  ) what about a pair of the Emissions Labs in the 36.5 over the Tung-Sols??

The tube rolling world is full of possibilities.    

My first step will be to try one (EML) in the TP.  I'm warming up the clear tops right now instead of the 6N1P's, just to hear the differences tonight, while my memory is still fresh enough.  The wide soundstage and detail of the 6n1P's is preet cool, though, and I don;t remember hearing that in anything else, even my beloved Raytheons.  Phil wants me to try the cousin, the Russian 6N6P's, which i haven't installed since the upgrade. 

Ted,

Are the 6N1P's the stock ones?

George

[ted_b]

Yes, They are labeled 6N1P-EB (Russian cyrillic..some call them the EV's.).  They are noted to be the most heavy-duty and best sounding of the three 6N1P varieties, and Dan picked the right one.      They are dirt cheap; just in case I fall in love long-term I picked up a set of 8 of them on Ebay (NOS) for $25 shipped from Russia..

[RUR]

Ted, if this combo proves to be your favorite combo (at least for today  )

Shoot, he hasn't yet heard the 6900's I've sent him. 

[owenmd]

My EML has done over a hundred hours now and has changed a touch.... maybe others who have them can concur.... glare (with the DR's) is now practically non-existent and continues to go in this direction.  With other equipment you would think its going dull or losing detail.... that would be the effect.... but its not dull in any way, nor is there any loss of detail.... its just the music in a very natural presentation with no nasty artifacts.
Some of my live concert DVD's could only be played at 70% throttle before pain.... but I can now play them 100% wide open easily!

When I tried the 6N6P's with the EML, I liked the better tonal balance and a little more detail than with the DR's, although I lost a little solidity and bass.... but the one thing that killed the deal for me was the dispersion of image and positional information.  The EML/DR combo has killer pinpoint imaging.  I may try the 6N1P's this weekend if I get time.

My set-up is a lot simpler than yours Ted.... I just feed the MWT into a Burson buffer, then into my Musician using Grovers latest IC's.... so "thankfully", I have far less variables than you.... enough to drive you nuts...!  Although I am sure I would greatly appreciate the bigger soundfield/dynamics that a 36.5 would provide.... best not try it....?

I think I'll wait until my Turbo/bybee mod next year before any other major changes.

[ted_b]

Owenmd,
I'd love to hear your feedback on the EML/6N1P's or any other EML combo you might try.  thx
Ted

[Philistine]

My EML has done over a hundred hours now and has changed a touch.... maybe others who have them can concur.... glare (with the DR's) is now practically non-existent and continues to go in this direction.  With other equipment you would think its going dull or losing detail.... that would be the effect.... but its not dull in any way, nor is there any loss of detail.... its just the music in a very natural presentation with no nasty artifacts.
Some of my live concert DVD's could only be played at 70% throttle before pain.... but I can now play them 100% wide open easily!

When I tried the 6N6P's with the EML, I liked the better tonal balance and a little more detail than with the DR's, although I lost a little solidity and bass.... but the one thing that killed the deal for me was the dispersion of image and positional information.  The EML/DR combo has killer pinpoint imaging.  I may try the 6N1P's this weekend if I get time.

My set-up is a lot simpler than yours Ted.... I just feed the MWT into a Burson buffer, then into my Musician using Grovers latest IC's.... so "thankfully", I have far less variables than you.... enough to drive you nuts...!  Although I am sure I would greatly appreciate the bigger soundfield/dynamics that a 36.5 would provide.... best not try it....?

I think I'll wait until my Turbo/bybee mod next year before any other major changes.

Mark, interesting that you should raise the 6N6P's - my principal amp is offline at the moment (enforced sabbatical), so I have no real way of testing this, but my initial feeling is that the 6N1P's and the 6N6P's have a very similar sonic signature.  It'll be interesting to get your feedback on this.  Phil

[modwright]

Hi guys, I just noticed some mention of the 6900 tube.  I want to clarify - DO NOT USE THE 6900 TUBE IN THE TRANSPORTER.  YOU WILL DAMAGE IT IF YOU DO!!!!!

The 6900 is a variant of the 5687, including 7044 and 7119.  This family of tubes is excellent and is used in our SWL 9.0SE preamp, phono stage, Sony and some of our earlier Denon mods. The transporter can ONLY use the following driver tubes:

6H30
6BQ7
6FQ7
6CG7
6N1P

Do NOT use the 6922/6DJ8/7308 as the operating points are too high for these tubes and you will probably GREATLY shorten the life of these tubes.

Just didn't want anybody getting confused by the mention of the 6900 tube on the Transporter thread.

Thank you,

Dan W.

[sleepysurf]

Dan, can you post a page on your website with the list of all tube variants for EACH of your products, or make the owners manuals (which I recall include that info) available for d/l.  I, like many others here, have started tube rolling, but cannot find my SWL 9.0SE Sig manual to see what substitutions are "safe".

[rydenfan]

Dan, those 6900 being discussed were for Ted to try in his modded Denon. No worries on trying them in the TP. Thanks for the full list and for know that I won multiple varieties of every tube family on there yet still cant pick a favorite 

[rydenfan]

So, having pretty much decided on the HW GZ37 as the best rectifier for my system (still need to audition the EML of course) I spent part of the weekend listening to various signal tubes. It came down to my long-time reference RCA cleartop 6CG7's and the stock Sovatek 6N1P's that Dan sends with the unit.
The 6N1P's are a crazy little tube. First off they are so freakin Loud  Putting them into the system really reminds me of when I used to have an old analog deck and I could hit the Loudness button. It is a major difference when I put them in. They are at first really alluring because I feel like the system got more detailed, bigger soundstaging, etc. But I would find I could achieve the same attributes with the 6CG7's if I would just turn the volume way up to get to the point where the 6N1P's were. There certainly seems to me to be a bit of fullness or organic quality to vocals with the 6N1P's that is wonderful. Perhaps a pair of blackplate 6CG7's would provide this as well?? Dunno, may have to order some. However, although the 6N1P's to seem to be a bit more lively than the cleartops in the end I just cant get past a bit of edge/brightness/harshness (or however you wish to describe it) that the 6N1P's seem to introduce into my system. When these tubes work they really work, but when they do not they really do not  For right now I am going to stay with the 6CG7's but I am certainly open to other possibilities 

[ted_b]

DK,
I couldn't have put it better myself.  Thank you.  Those qualities of the 6N1P are right on.  As I told you when we spoke, I've been fighting the edginess (I wouldn't call it harsh but splitting hairs) on certain recordings, and wondered if the ones I ordered will be any less so.  I don't get the same liveliness (the good quality) or soundstage width with the 6N6P, and the edginess is still there.   

Last night I did no listening, but put my system back into normal config (dual mb's in pre) and now have a TS 5U4G (not B) and my trusty Raytheons warming up.  I want to go back to that tonight as i still remember the sonics of the earlier config.  I'll report back.   I'm still very hopeful, though that an EML/6N1P will erradicate or significantly reduce the edginess and give us the best of all worlds.....we'll see.  it will be interesting to hear your thoughts, as I don't have the High Wycombe to a/b. 

[rydenfan]

Ted, definitely report back. My Plinius shows up this week and am just waiting on some cables from Greg now. So I am going to stick to this with combo while that all breaks in. The Halo amps (what I have been using temporarily) run a bit to the cool side of neutral and the Plinius a bit to the warm so that very well may give me the little warmth I am looking for.

The 6N1P's really are a pretty good tube considering how cheap they are, but that edginess is something I just cannot get past. As you say perhaps with the mythical EML tube it will be a nice combo. I should also not that given how loud the 6N1P's are they are an excellent tube if you are looking for something that is engaging at low listening levels. I could easily see myself using them for while we have people over for dinner or something due to that.

[Philistine]

I have exactly the same reaction to the 6N1P's.  They're a bit like a wife - when you don't have them around for a time you start to miss them and when you have them back you're happy to have them around, but after a few days they start to get on your nerves and you can't wait to get rid of them 

On a serious note the 6N1P's I find are almost perfect, the edginess though needs to be tamed - I started to play around with a GZ32, which showed promise, but I need to revisit this again.

[kenreau]

I have exactly the same reaction to the 6N1P's.  They're a bit like a wife - when you don't have them around for a time you start to miss them and when you have them back you're happy to have them around, but after a few days they start to get on your nerves and you can't wait to get rid of them 

On a serious note the 6N1P's I find are almost perfect, the edginess though needs to be tamed - I started to play around with a GZ32, which showed promise, but I need to revisit this again.

Maybe this has been tossed around before, but I wonder if that 6N1P edginess could be tamed by cryo treatment and/or tube dampers (ala herbies, or similar).

Kenreau

[rydenfan]

I have exactly the same reaction to the 6N1P's.  They're a bit like a wife - when you don't have them around for a time you start to miss them and when you have them back you're happy to have them around, but after a few days they start to get on your nerves and you can't wait to get rid of them 

On a serious note the 6N1P's I find are almost perfect, the edginess though needs to be tamed - I started to play around with a GZ32, which showed promise, but I need to revisit this again.

Maybe this has been tossed around before, but I wonder if that 6N1P edginess could be tamed by cryo treatment and/or tube dampers (ala herbies, or similar).

Kenreau

Kenreau I have to say I am not sure either of those would do the trick. I feel more like it is a sonic attribute of that tube. There is a weight and forwardness to the mids and upper treble that work so well with this tube when listening to stripped-down instumentals or vocal tracks. I just feel like when you go to something like Radiohead, The Decemberists, or anything with a larger band and a lot of information in those regions than it simply becomes a bit too much for me. Of course YMMV 

[Philistine]

I have exactly the same reaction to the 6N1P's.  They're a bit like a wife - when you don't have them around for a time you start to miss them and when you have them back you're happy to have them around, but after a few days they start to get on your nerves and you can't wait to get rid of them 

On a serious note the 6N1P's I find are almost perfect, the edginess though needs to be tamed - I started to play around with a GZ32, which showed promise, but I need to revisit this again.

Maybe this has been tossed around before, but I wonder if that 6N1P edginess could be tamed by cryo treatment and/or tube dampers (ala herbies, or similar).

Kenreau

Kenreau I have to say I am not sure either of those would do the trick. I feel more like it is a sonic attribute of that tube. There is a weight and forwardness to the mids and upper treble that work so well with this tube when listening to stripped-down instumentals or vocal tracks. I just feel like when you go to something like Radiohead, The Decemberists, or anything with a larger band and a lot of information in those regions than it simply becomes a bit too much for me. Of course YMMV 

Of these two options I would tend to consider that the cryo route has the greatest probability of success (if any) and is worth pursuing.  I say this as the 6N1P's are low cost (they're sacrifice able) and cryoing shouldn't be too expensive, in the past I found a cryoed TS 5687 tube sound closer to a Bendix 6900 than the standard TS 5687.
Question is who and where?

[funkmonkey]

...so that very well may give me the little warmth I am looking for.

David, could it be that you are just missing some of the warmth that you became accustomed to with your Dali's, and is no longer present with the KEF's?  Just a thought... 

This is also a concern of mine...  I have a feeling I will want to get on the warm side of neutral with my tubes, as I feel it will balance out the crispness of the Halo and HT3s. Of course I have to get the HT3s in place before I can really start to evaluate anything. 

As you guys have rolled through tubes are there any that stand out as giving a "warmer sound" without too much loss of detail (either signal or rectifier tubes)?

[NickS]

Finding myself in violent agreement with the recent collective forum concensus of impressions for rectifier and signal tubes in the MWTP.

While they vary significantly between brand, date and construction, I never met a 6CG7 that I didn't like.  They all seem to have a nice presentation of high freqs along with a nice midpoint for gain.  6NxP's just begin to sound shrill after a while and, no matter how hard I try to love them, tend to enjoy brief respites in my unit.  The 6H30-DR's impart and elegant sound but do so with the expense of several dB of gain making comparison difficult.

It is within rectifier land that things get most interesting.  On one end of the spectrum, the MB GZ34 reigns in the areas of image and soundstage... on the other, the better 5U4G's convey detail with unmatched dexterity.  A very special 5U4G (that has found fleeting attention here in the past) is the Tung-Sol VT244.  This rectifier delivers a balance and transparency that bests all other rectifiers in my collection.  At the moment it equally divides duty with my MB GZ34.  Not sure that I can call one better... they're both great in their own uniqe ways.  Here is a pic... notice the top getter and two filaments running up between the plates that differentiate it from others of its genre:



My favorable experience with this rare relic has me most enthusiastic about the EML mesh plate 5U4G.  Were it to strike the mid point between the VT244 and the MB GZ34, we would be a very happy lot.

Any progress on the hunt, Phil?

[ted_b]

Nick,
Nice write-up.  Where did you find the rare VT244 (is that the one Phil found for you on Ebay)?  Where does it rate compared to standard TS 5U4G or GB?