[robinje]

Hello!  This is my first post here...

My tastes vary widely, but I mostly listen to rock (and some jazz), primarily on vinyl and some CD.  Probably close to 90% rock and 10% jazz.  I am interested in Omega speakers and have checked out the web site and this forum extensively.  Without being able to hear Omega speakers prior to potential purchase, I wonder how they might fit my needs.  I listen usually around 80-85dB in my small (14'x16') sanctum.  When I say "rock" I mean anything from electric Neil Young, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, ZZ Top Rush, to even Metallica (although sparingly). 

I currently have Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 speakers, which some might not associate with rock music.  But they do sound mighty fine to me!  I am intrigued about the single driver, high efficiency concept and that has led me to Omega.  I am on the verge of purchasing a Red Wine 30.2 amp which I will mate with my Modwright SWL 9.0 Sig. preamp.  I think the 30.2 will drive the Harbeths fine, but I really am curious about the Omegas and would like some input on how they might sound differently to my current speakers given my listening habits, space, and preferred genres.  I'm not interested in "the Omegas will BLOW AWAY your Harbeths", but rather some insight on how the single driver concept employed in the Omegas might be different and/or better than the Harbeths in my application. 

I've never had a single-driver speaker before (obviously) and quite honestly, I'm scared to take the plunge given my background with conventional multi-way speakers employing a crossover.  As far as budget goes, I could probably swing the Max Hemps with pedastals.  I'd probably run these w/o a subwoofer, at least initially. 

Well, what do you think?  Thanks in advance...   

[JLM]

Try to audition.  I really like Louis and every one of his designs (but that was years ago,  ).

I don't associate single driver designs with rock, unless you're ready to mellow out.  High frequencies will "beam" (especially from larger, "whizerless" drivers like I use).  Most extended range drivers are better described as mid/tweeters and so lack deep bass entirely.  Maximum output is typically more limited than in a two, three, whatever-way design.

The major advantages of single driver designs are coherency (great for imaging and/or nearfield setups), by definition they provide an active design (one amp per driver for simple/direct connection/interaction for improved performance), lack of crossover to muck up the all important midrange.  I really don't see these applying well to the loud, big, exagerated nature of rock music.

[jsaliga]

Well, what do you think?  Thanks in advance...   

I think you should take some time to read through the following threads:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=49299.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=52088.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54712.0

Despite what some people have said about single driver speaker systems, I will stack up my ALNICO powered MaxHemps and DeepHemp setup against ANY speaker system available in their price class -- and against most speakers costing twice the price.  I won't say my rig will blow away anything (talk about the most clichéd statement in audiophilia), but I will say that my Omega setup will compare favorably to any competing loudspeaker system available.  Music lives and breathes in the midrange, and I don't mean just jazz, just rock, or just classical.  I mean music period.  That doesn't mean to suggest that the low and high registers aren't important -- they are.  But I wouldn't take a truckload of speaker systems for free that went to some design lengths to extend bass and treble response at the expense of the midrange.  After upgrading to the new ALNICO drivers, my Omega speakers are the first I have owned in my 30 years as a serious audiophile that I felt wasn't missing something.  I can go from a gentle Stanley Turrentine saxaphone blues ballad one moment to Eddie Van Halen playing Eruption the next and not feel let down.  My rig is equally adept with Karajan conducting Beethoven's 5th Symphony as it is with John Coltrane or AC/DC.

One thing I do agree with JLM on is that you should line up an audition if you can.  If you can't then I suggest you talk to Louis.

--Jerome

[zybar]

Try to audition.  I really like Louis and every one of his designs (but that was years ago,  ).

I don't associate single driver designs with rock, unless you're ready to mellow out.  High frequencies will "beam" (especially from larger, "whizerless" drivers like I use).  Most extended range drivers are better described as mid/tweeters and so lack deep bass entirely.  Maximum output is typically more limited than in a two, three, whatever-way design.

The major advantages of single driver designs are coherency (great for imaging and/or nearfield setups), by definition they provide an active design (one amp per driver for simple/direct connection/interaction for improved performance), lack of crossover to muck up the all important midrange.  I really don't see these applying well to the loud, big, exagerated nature of rock music.

Louis' new designs don't beam and can definitely handle rock music.   

I play lots of the artists that robinje listed above and except for the very bottom, I don't find my Omega Revolutions (with the new 8" Alinco Hemp drivers) lacking in any way.  While I ultimately need to fill in the very bottom (I am used to true full rnage systems that play down to the mid to low 20's), I would imagine for most people, the improvements in clarity, detail, texture, and coherency would far outweigh not covering that last octave (or maybe half octave) with authority.

Now, you also need to pair the speakers with the right amplification.  If you throw a tiny SET at the newer Omega speaker with the Alinco Hemp driver, you will probably get an out of this world experience in the midrange, but only good or even so-so in the bass.

I agree with jsaliga that the Alinco Hemp driven Omega designs will definitely play out of their price class.

George

 

[DaveC113]

My XRS will do well with all types of music, those tiny cones actually play down to 40 Hz with great quality bass. I augment them with a 10" Adire XBL2 sub in a sealed cab to get down to the low 20s. It works really well and sounds great, but where it falls short is playing extremely loud. I have measured 100 dB peaks at the listening position with the sub off (Dolby C, add 3 or more dB with the sub) playing Tool... this is plenty loud for me, but its not going to rock the neighborhood. If they are in a small space and you're close to the speakers it will be fine, but for really big rooms I'd want to move more air. 

Also, they do a great job reproducing the guitar, electric or acoustic.


edit: I am currently using a Trends T-amp, which is the limiting factor as far as volume goes... its only 5 wpc.


 

[Canyoneagle]

Firstly, Louis makes excellent speakers that are very musical and engaging.
One thing that I feel compelled to mention is that the Omegas (and any single driver I've heard, for that matter) has a tendency to sound much more "forward" than most multi-driver/crossover speakers.  The effect (to my ears) is something like this:  Multi-driver speakers are like sitting on the patio, looking at the trees, bushes, etc, of your nearby garden.  Now, stand up and walk INTO the landscape, where the dimensionality and detail of the landscape is right there.  You are in it.  This is my experience of single drivers - particularly Omegas, and especially when paired with the Signature 30.2.

It is incredible.

However, my experience is that poorly recorded/engineered material (sadly, most rock on CD falls into this category), borders on unlistenable on the Omegas - the crappy quality of the recording (overcompression, peaky mids and highs, horrible sibilance, etc) overwhelms the music that is trying to get through.  From what I understand, rock on vinyl is far more listenable.

I love my MaxHemps, but much of my rock collection has been relegated to the Yamaha mini-system or in-car.
That said, I do have rock CD's that sound AWESOME on the Omegas (Tool, Nine inch Nails, some Pink Floyd, the list continues).

I have not heard the new alnico drivers, so I do not know how they will compare.

Warmly,
Michael

[DaveC113]

Michael, have you tried a tube preamp? While the sig 30.2 is in another league compared to my current amp, I've found tube preamps to make a major improvement on both my XRS and Maxhemps. I have an Anthem Pre1, and listened to Maxhemps with and without a EE preamp. I think there was a thread on the subject of using tube preamps with RWA amps in the RWA circle. Also, the XRS are even more brutal with poorly recorded material than the 8" drivers, the tube pre helps a lot, and I think you get used to it over time...

Dave 

[jsaliga]

Michael,

You make some excellent points.  It's also the reason I have mostly abandoned classic rock on the CD format.  It has been ruined by the loudness war and cheesy remaster hack jobs.  Instead, I have been building a great collection of vintage rock vinyl.  It still amazes me how plentiful and cheap these superior recordings are.  For the most part, my vinyl experience with 1970s and 80s rock has been truely great.  I have only run into problems with older vinyl from the 1950s and 1960s.  I recently bought a still sealed original pressing of ZZ Top - Degüello for something like $8, and it is head and shoulders above the butchered CD remaster.  I made a DVD-A needle drop of that record in 24-bit/96KHz digital audio for home then downsampled it to 16-bit/44.1KHz to make a CD of it for the car.

--Jerome

[Canyoneagle]

Okay, I know it has been some time since you've posted this, but I'm trying to do the "lalalalalala..... I'm not listening...." routine to avoid the inevitability of obtaining a battery-powered, tubed preamp.
--historical context, I'm going to be off-grid and battery power is my best option--
.....and stop calling me "isabella"!

 aa

Michael, have you tried a tube preamp? While the sig 30.2 is in another league compared to my current amp, I've found tube preamps to make a major improvement on both my XRS and Maxhemps. I have an Anthem Pre1, and listened to Maxhemps with and without a EE preamp. I think there was a thread on the subject of using tube preamps with RWA amps in the RWA circle. Also, the XRS are even more brutal with poorly recorded material than the 8" drivers, the tube pre helps a lot, and I think you get used to it over time...

Dave 

[Louis O]

Hi robinje,

Many thanks for your post and welcome to the forum.

Many thanks for the great posts and what JLM points out about single drivers is what I work so hard to get away from. He's right that he's heard my speakers over 5 years ago and not any of the new drivers or speaker systems.

What I try to do with all the designs is to be able to listen to all types of music. Some of the speakers in the line do this better than others, but I would be happy to play classical and then throw in rock as well.

4.5" drivers soundstage better than 8"s and that's physics, but I would not classify my 8"s as beamy at all. The speakers are not just made for simple music, but for all kinds of music. Most of you know that I listen to rock a lot and not many speakers do guitar as good, it's in the drivers DNA.

Sig 30.2 and Omegas are a wonderful match and I use mine with a tube pre in front as well. In Montreal we played Rage against the machine full tilt and sounded mighty good to more than a few people.

Thanks,
Louis