[splittailz]

one of my goals in reworking my home theater was to have a very good 2 channel system. you are absolutely correct, the detail, impact, presence, air around the performers/instruments is spooky with the 28's in 2 channel. I have magnepan's all around. the speed with the planars and the 28's is like lightning. In 2 channel, the mains dissappear from the first note. multi-channel seems to draw more attention to the speakers being there,not quite the invisable act as in 2 channel. although the center now blends seamlessly with the 3 28's across the front, more so than any previous amplification I have tried. I am still debating the amp/amps for the rear. one little voice says do the 5 28's, another says do a 14 and leave some room for future upgrade. My available space/power can comfortably handle 5 amps the size of 14's or 28's. with 5 28's any future upgrade in HT, say 5.2 to 7.2 would require major rework again, whereas with the 14, it would just be a matter of another 14, 2 more speakers, plug in everything and done. some thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated by you, James, and anyone else that wants to throw in their 2 cents worth. I want to order the final amp/amps next week and finally finish this project. this has been a long journey, but the end result I see is very satisfying.

[KeithA]

one of my goals in reworking my home theater was to have a very good 2 channel system. you are absolutely correct, the detail, impact, presence, air around the performers/instruments is spooky with the 28's in 2 channel. I have magnepan's all around. the speed with the planars and the 28's is like lightning. In 2 channel, the mains dissappear from the first note. multi-channel seems to draw more attention to the speakers being there,not quite the invisable act as in 2 channel. although the center now blends seamlessly with the 3 28's across the front, more so than any previous amplification I have tried. I am still debating the amp/amps for the rear. one little voice says do the 5 28's, another says do a 14 and leave some room for future upgrade. My available space/power can comfortably handle 5 amps the size of 14's or 28's. with 5 28's any future upgrade in HT, say 5.2 to 7.2 would require major rework again, whereas with the 14, it would just be a matter of another 14, 2 more speakers, plug in everything and done. some thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated by you, James, and anyone else that wants to throw in their 2 cents worth. I want to order the final amp/amps next week and finally finish this project. this has been a long journey, but the end result I see is very satisfying.

Splittailz

I'm sure James would be best to give advice in assembling such a high-power surround system because I certainly have no experience in that area of power and size

However, even in my case with the 14BSST and now the 300 WPC 6BSST on the centre and rears, the rears have way more power than I see myself ever needing, unless surround mixes ever go down the route that all 5 speakers have the same dynamic requirements of the front 2. However, James has experience all around with super powered systems and would be the best, I would think, to know in your case if a 14B vs 28Bs on the rears is a good move...IMHO, it's the way I would go even if I could get 28Bs....just because I could

But there is something sexy about just having the 5 28Bs.....I'll grant you that. At the end of the day, do what makes you happiest...which I'm sure you will

On the 7 channel future, I'm not sure if that will have any legs. Even if it does, I think 5 channel based surround will still be the standard for a long while. I'm sure James can give you great feedback in that area as well.

I will PM you regarding the 2 channel approach.

Keith

[Phil A]

I also use the 14BSST on the fronts and the 6BSST on the center and rears.  My room is very large, about 16x20 ft. with a 19 foot high ceiling and it opens into other spaces and it is plenty of power.  The layout of the room is not good for 7.1 but I can do 6.1.  I have a small Marantz mono block for now but if I end up with Blu-Ray when it takes off more and there are lots of movies that use the extra channel (vs. ltd. stuff now like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, etc.) I can always get a Bryston Power Pac if need more power, although I doubt that for the effects in a rear center the 175W the Marantz puts out into 4 ohms (what the rear center is) would be inadequate.  Many moons ago, when I had a Proceed HPA3 on the front channels and a Proceed BPA3 on the rears, the BPA was really overkill on the rear center.   I do concur that if you have the room, wiring and budget that separate mono blocks do look great.  About 5-6 yrs. back I went to the Home Entertainment Expo in NYC and Sony had an SACD demo set-up with 5 (Manley Neo Classic) mono block amps (and all full range speakers) it looked really cool.  I use the room for living space too and it is tough with the room layout to be able to place them.  I actually have the 6BSST and Marantz monoblock on an amp stand behind a couch on the side of the room vs. around the main components as space wise it works better.  I just run a longer (around 20 ft.) balanced cable to the SP1.7, a longer speaker cable to the center channel and a longer DC trigger cable to the 14BSST.  It's not a problem for me as I make my own cables and power cords and that comes in handy if I move stuff around.

[KeithA]

OK

This is the first afternoon I've had a chance to open up the 14BSST since I got it earlier in the week.

Compared to the 6BSST, especially on the Natilus 804s, there is a nice ease to music when I run the stereo at the outer levels that I would ever run it at. As well, I'm running the 20 amp 14B on a 15 amp circuit (through a 20a Torus with a 15/20a power cord) and there are no issues of tripping breakers at all. It's just purring

But still, the biggest difference is in the bass regions. On cranked Patricia Barber's "A Taste of Honey" from her Cafe Blue CD (she's a little eclectic...but I really like her style). Apart from the fact that the studio sounds absolutely cavernous, the underpinnings of the bass now has that extra weight (and still ultra fast) that makes my system sound really great.

Now the next step is to solidify an upgrade to the digital feed (right now I'm running a Squeezebox Duet digitally into the SP1.7 as a DAC) and I'll be set! If all else fails I'll order a new BDA-1 later in the fall.

Keith

[smerlas]

Keith,

Can you elaborate on the "ease".  How are the 804s behaving?  Do they seam to have an elevated ability or do you think the pairing would benefit from an upgrade to the 803d.  I really enjoy the 804 - 4BSST combo but must say am captivated by the thoughts of a 14BSST or pair of 7BSSTs with the 803d.    Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Smerlas

[KeithA]

Keith,

Can you elaborate on the "ease".  How are the 804s behaving?  Do they seam to have an elevated ability or do you think the pairing would benefit from an upgrade to the 803d.  I really enjoy the 804 - 4BSST combo but must say am captivated by the thoughts of a 14BSST or pair of 7BSSTs with the 803d.    Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Smerlas

Actually, I've only had a few minutes to listen to the system since I got it, so maybe it would be best if I waited a little while until after I've had a little more time to listen

As well, in the next several weeks I will be auditioning a world-class digital front end in my system, so I'll really be able to see what the whole thing can do.

But I will say this....I've contemlpated a move up in the Natilus line (N802s), but with what I'm hearing now with the N804s in my 13.5 ft x 16 ft room, I wouldn't think of upsizing the speakers. I'd even hazard a guess that the N802s would be boomy in the bass regions unless I move to a larger room. In a room like mine, running the 14B, the 804s work really well.

Now, the 14B and the 6B (4B) still sound a lot alike, but when the juice really starts to flow, the 14B just seems more solid. Again, I find it really noticable in the bass regions. maybe I can say it's a fuller sound, especially on the 804s, which can be a bit lean at times.

Keith

[Phil A]

The first time a friend of mine heard the 14BSST (basically minutes after I unpacked it and set it up) he noted the bass was better controlled and more solid and the music easier to listen to vs. the 6BSST I moved to the center and rears.  At the time I was using Thiel 7.2s

[smerlas]

OK ......... here we go .......... seat belts fastened?

Assuming upgrading from the 4BSST to the 14BSST will provide better controlled sound and increased clarity/ accuracy in the bass frequencies, what are the thoughts on a pair of 7BSSTs vs a 14BSST.

I searched older threads and found some dialog about the power supply in the 14BSST being slightly smaller than the 7BSST but will it make any difference.  All things being equal would one notice any real difference if they had a 14BSST or a pair of 7BSSTs?

I was hoping to get at least a couple of years out of the 4BSST before upgrading.

[KeithA]

The first time a friend of mine heard the 14BSST (basically minutes after I unpacked it and set it up) he noted the bass was better controlled and more solid and the music easier to listen to vs. the 6BSST I moved to the center and rears.  At the time I was using Thiel 7.2s

OK, so I'm not crazy But yeah, that's exactly what I meant earlier when I said that the music had a ceratin 'ease' to it. It is easier to listen to, absolutely, especially when the music levels approach 'somewhat loud'!

And I concur that the presence in the bass area is a notch up.

So, smerlas, I think I can tell you it's an improvement. Now, in my case like Phil A, I was intending to park the 6B in the centre and rears anyway, so an upgrade to the 14B or similar was inevitable. In your case, I suspect you'd be selling the 4B to get the 14B, that would be a little different. I suggest you try to get your hands on one to demo before going down that road

Keith

[KeithA]

OK ......... here we go .......... seat belts fastened?

Assuming upgrading from the 4BSST to the 14BSST will provide better controlled sound and increased clarity/ accuracy in the bass frequencies, what are the thoughts on a pair of 7BSSTs vs a 14BSST.

I searched older threads and found some dialog about the power supply in the 14BSST being slightly smaller than the 7BSST but will it make any difference.  All things being equal would one notice any real difference if they had a 14BSST or a pair of 7BSSTs?

I was hoping to get at least a couple of years out of the 4BSST before upgrading.

I haven't tried the 7BSSTs. However, while I was buying my 14B I did actually have discussions with a couple of sellers who were selling their 7BSSTs. Even those 2 sellers basically said that the 14B and 7B SSTs were 'similar', but the 7BSSts were a little cleaner in the bass areas. I suspect it's just a hair though.

I was considering the monoblocks, but in the end decided that I wanted the one big amp since I was never going to put the monoblocks next to the speakers anyway. I suspect the 14B and 7B SSTs are very close. I suspect the 7BSST have an edge if you are driving them on the outer limits.

...and I just love the massive looks of the 14B/6B/28B. Something about pulling an80 to 90lb amp out of the box that just makes me feel good

Keith

[smerlas]

Hmmmmmmmm .......... one big amp (has a certain testosterone appeal) or two amps literally side by side flanked by speakers ...... tough one.    

It seams that since we are talking about increased clarity and presence in the first place, the 7B route offers the most gain.  However I can't help but think that one chassis simplifies the equation, I like the 14B concept.

It is doubtful I will have any opportunity to demo anything in this range, unless of course one of my fellow owners want to send me one to try.     

[Phil A]

Keith,

Can you elaborate on the "ease".  How are the 804s behaving?  Do they seam to have an elevated ability or do you think the pairing would benefit from an upgrade to the 803d.  I really enjoy the 804 - 4BSST combo but must say am captivated by the thoughts of a 14BSST or pair of 7BSSTs with the 803d.    Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Smerlas

I don't think you would have an issue with B&Ws and heat from driving them but certainly 7BSSTs would likely have less of an issue.  In my case it's also the room and what I've wired for.  My 6BSST for the center and rears actually sits behind a couch (on an amp stand) almost 20 ft. from the main system.

[splittailz]

hmmmm 90 pound amps out of boxes. been there done that, have one more time. actually the 28's aren't too bad for us old people, front and rear handles. what the real killer is, is a 155 pound Torus. dang thing feels like its full of lead. here I come general surgeon, sew me back up. sounds like the 14 is working out well for you Keith.