[zybar]

George,

I don't think Jim has a problem with you expressing an opinion, his point was...

I've yet to post to an EP thread and act as the apologetic voice of dissent. 

Since you, George, are very well respected here, and deservedly so; the context in which you stated your views may not justifiably be considered appropriate.

However with this coming from someone with my reputation, it's quite understandable if you do not accept what I've just said.

John

I would have no problem with Jim or anybody else expressing their opinion (dissenting or agreeing) in any thread for gear I own ( EP, Vandertseen, Salk, Bolder Cable, Omega, Response Audio, etc...).

I still don't quite understand what the context is in this specific issue that makes my post inappropriate.

It would be inappropriate if I was still a dealer for EP (or any competing product), but I never would have posted my opinion if that were the case.

I think the only place that type of opinion doesn't belong is in a FOR SALE thread.

George

[Goosepond]

Gee guys. It's a lot of fun (and informative I might add) to watch the heavy hitters bat the ball back and forth over the net.

I'm waiting for my lowly ( ) mini's to arrive so I can have some ammunition of my own.

I have it on good authority that I'm in line to win the PowerBall lottery. This from someone I just know wouldn't shit me. 

And as soon as I win, first, I'm going to get a bigger house, and secondly I'm going to get Bob to thinking of retiring after he fills my order of bunches of Revelations. 

Bob, you can take that to the bank (or not).

Gene

[Double Ugly]

I still don't quite understand what the context is in this specific issue that makes my post inappropriate.

I didn't think it inappropriate, and I apologize if you perceived my previous post as an attack.  I honestly didn't mean it as such, and should have more carefully considered my wording. 

I've always felt (perhaps incorrectly) that there was a sort of unspoken gentleman's agreement here at AC, a feeling born of and fostered by numerous posts to that effect through the years.  In short, you don't go into a manufacturer's circle and take pot shots (to put it politely). 

If you want to write a review which completely destroys every aspect of the equipment in question, so be it, but the manufacturer's circle is essentially off limits to that sort of thing.  I've perceived some leniency given owners and former owners, but the degree was/is specific to each manufacturer.   

All of which is to say I never saw your post as being inappropriate, but rather an exercise in poor taste. 

[konut]

As well as being completely off topic.

[Wind Chaser]

You are very gracious Jim,

There’s certainly nothing wrong or inappropriate with George stating his opinion, but to publicly express a negative opinion about SP Tech inside the “SP Tech place of business” isn’t the best context for such comments. 

[mcullinan]

Circles are like houses. You take off your shoes and you certainly don't take a poo on the floor. Or scooch on the carpet. Rub your privvys on the Bowling Trophy.....

Mike

[TomS]

You are very gracious Jim,

There’s certainly nothing wrong or inappropriate with George stating his opinion, but to publicly express a negative opinion about SP Tech inside the “SP Tech place of business” isn’t the best context for such comments. 

...and the absence of any negative opinions would simply make it a marketing site, that while interesting, is not totally informative. 

I believe it was DU who took it OT to ask about Mike's $13k speaker search, so maybe back to the joy of expected Mini's eh?

Geez, this is so predictable...

[satfrat]

I still don't quite understand what the context is in this specific issue that makes my post inappropriate.

I didn't think it inappropriate, and I apologize if you perceived my previous post as an attack.  I honestly didn't mean it as such, and should have more carefully considered my wording. 

I've always felt (perhaps incorrectly) that there was a sort of unspoken gentleman's agreement here at AC, a feeling born of and fostered by numerous posts to that effect through the years.  In short, you don't go into a manufacturer's circle and take pot shots (to put it politely). 

If you want to write a review which completely destroys every aspect of the equipment in question, so be it, but the manufacturer's circle is essentially off limits to that sort of thing.  I've perceived some leniency given owners and former owners, but the degree was/is specific to each manufacturer.   

All of which is to say I never saw your post as being inappropriate, but rather an exercise in poor taste. 

Hi Jim, I don't think George was taking "potshots" at any component inparticular, he just making a generalized statement that he didn't feel Frank's system had improved any from the last time he heard it. George also mentioned a large turnaround of gear so to my ear, it was a system comment, not an individual gear comment. Perfectly correct to state his opinion on a system in lue of someone elses thoughts on same system, regardless of where he makes it(except in For Sale Circle). Guess maybe it might have sounded like George was focusing in on the SP's but I didn't take it that way. 

Cheers,
Robin

[satfrat]

As well as being completely off topic.

Well this must be a first for Audiocircle huh, straying offtopic?

Cheers,
Robin

[konut]

As well as being completely off topic.

Well this must be a first for Audiocircle huh, straying offtopic?

Cheers,
Robin

No, just the last.

[Wind Chaser]

Hi Jim, I don't think George was taking "potshots" at any component inparticular, he just making a generalized statement that he didn't feel Frank's system had improved any from the last time he heard it.

Sorry to be the dissenting opinion here, but I recently heard Frank's system and I don't think it was better than the previous incarnations.  In fact, I thought it took major steps backward.

I see the above comment as being more than a "generalized statement".

[TomS]

...  Guess maybe it might have sounded like George was focusing in on the SP's but I didn't take it that way. 

Nor did I, since he said "system" anyway. 

FrankS has owned some really nice gear that many can only dream about (including C2.5's), so I would love to hear more about what worked AND what didn't maybe in another (non-Mini) thread some day.  Frank's quote above was from six months ago and I understand his system is very different now (still awesome stuff though). Lots to learn there if he's willing to share.

[satfrat]

Hi Jim, I don't think George was taking "potshots" at any component inparticular, he just making a generalized statement that he didn't feel Frank's system had improved any from the last time he heard it.

Sorry to be the dissenting opinion here, but I recently heard Frank's system and I don't think it was better than the previous incarnations.  In fact, I thought it took major steps backward.

I see the above comment as being more than a "generalized statement".

If not generalized,,, then what component was he referring to in this statement? By using the word generalized, I meant the system as a whole and NOT 1 COMPONENT. George was in fact comparing 2 totally different systems in Frank's home and he stated as much. So please explain to me what you got from the above statement,,,,,


Cheers,
Robin

[Wind Chaser]

please explain to me what you got from the above statement,,,,,

If I understand "Frank's POV" correctly, he's certain that as a result of switching back to SP Tech, he believes his system has made significant strides forward.  George having recently heard his system thinks otherwise.

With this hobby there comes a lot of pride of ownership.  When somebody publicly makes a remark such as George did, it doesn't wash over so well.  Can anyone doubt that Frank isn't too impressed with George's comments?

Also, how would Clayton feel if he had a circle here and Frank posted some comments in it to the effect that having heard the CS2 he felt George's system took major steps backwards from his Vandy 5As?

IMO George crossed a few lines.

[zybar]

please explain to me what you got from the above statement,,,,,

If I understand "Frank's POV" correctly, he's certain that as a result of switching back to SP Tech, he believes his system has made significant strides forward.  George having recently heard his system thinks otherwise.

With this hobby there comes a lot of pride of ownership.  When somebody publicly makes a remark such as George did, it doesn't wash over so well.  Can anyone doubt that Frank isn't too impressed with George's comments?

Also, how would Clayton feel if he had a circle here and Frank posted some comments in it to the effect that having heard the CS2 he felt George's system took major steps backwards from his Vandy 5As?

IMO George crossed a few lines.

Wind Chaser,

What I posted here is what I have already told Frank in person - so let's not try and act like I am offending Frank - especially since you know nothing of the relationship or friendship I have with Frank.

Luckily, Frank can take my comments and constructive criticism in the manner it is intended and not act like I just called his baby ugly.  With both share our honest thoughts and opinions with each other and have no issues acting in such a manner.

BTW, you are acting like I trashed Frank's SP Techs...I did no such thing, nor would I. 

George

I think

[Double Ugly]

You are very gracious Jim,

There’s certainly nothing wrong or inappropriate with George stating his opinion, but to publicly express a negative opinion about SP Tech inside the “SP Tech place of business” isn’t the best context for such comments. 

...and the absence of any negative opinions would simply make it a marketing site, that while interesting, is not totally informative. 

Not a marketing site, but a circle wherein marketing occurs, just as it does in every other manufacturer's circle.

Defend your friend if you must, but making such statements do neither him nor you justice.

John has quite accurately and succinctly described my position.  I felt George crossed a line (or two), and I expressed my opinion; nothing more, nothing less.  It's nothing to get twisted over, and I promise you I'll spend no sleepless nights studying over the nuances and ramifications of things said in this or any other thread.  It's an audio forum, not an emergency room.

I suggest we do as some have suggested and return this thread to to topic.  If any participants feel the need to engage with me, feel free to PM.

[Wind Chaser]

Right or wrong, the easiest and most natural thing in the world is for a man to justify his own words and actions.  However it is most difficult and unnatural for a man to graciously humble himself and admit he is wrong.

Lest I come across too self righteous I freely admit that I have made more than any one's fair share of stupid and inappropriate remarks, be it the remarks themselves or the context in which I posted them.  My reputation precedes me and rightly so.  There’s nothing to be gained from pride, especially when it distorts reality.

[satfrat]

please explain to me what you got from the above statement,,,,,

If I understand "Frank's POV" correctly, he's certain that as a result of switching back to SP Tech, he believes his system has made significant strides forward.  George having recently heard his system thinks otherwise.

With this hobby there comes a lot of pride of ownership.  When somebody publicly makes a remark such as George did, it doesn't wash over so well.  Can anyone doubt that Frank isn't too impressed with George's comments?

Also, how would Clayton feel if he had a circle here and Frank posted some comments in it to the effect that having heard the CS2 he felt George's system took major steps backwards from his Vandy 5As?

IMO George crossed a few lines.

IMO,,, so have you,,, many times. You don't live in glass house do ya? 

[Wind Chaser]

You don't live in glass house do ya? 

I use to, but the insurance went way up and then they cancelled my policy...

[satfrat]

You don't live in glass house do ya? 

I use to, but the insurance went way up and then they cancelled my policy...