[Springbok10]

>>I'm one of those guys who ordered the Timepiece Minis at the very end of the introductory offer, so I have been waiting for over 9 months for my order to be compleated<<

Interesting concept - how long is one prepared to wait for a quality object? 9 months is a really long time and I give credit to you for your patience and demeanour through this ordeal. I am, unfortunately, not that patient a person and 3 months would be my absolute limit. Particularly since I was told 6-8 weeks and sold my speakers with this time interval in mind. I guess my feeling is that one takes the seller at his word and if he says x weeks, allow 50% more for unanticipated delays, then after that it becomes a very personal issue of how much one desires the object, particularly when it has been bought blind. I'm interested in others' opinions on this topic.

[Wind Chaser]

Interesting concept - how long is one prepared to wait... 9 months is a really long time...

You can still get a lot of practice done in the intervening time.

[phoenix_rising]

Interesting concept - how long is one prepared to wait for a quality object? 9 months is a really long time and I give credit to you for your patience and demeanour through this ordeal. I am, unfortunately, not that patient a person and 3 months would be my absolute limit. Particularly since I was told 6-8 weeks and sold my speakers with this time interval in mind. I guess my feeling is that one takes the seller at his word and if he says x weeks, allow 50% more for unanticipated delays, then after that it becomes a very personal issue of how much one desires the object, particularly when it has been bought blind. I'm interested in others' opinions on this topic.

I think you will find that if you order now the quoted time will actually be more in line with your expectations. SP Tech experienced a lot of issues finding ways to reliably manufacture their waveguides and still have a good WAF factor. Those issues are now gone with everything programmed into a CNC machine and all cabinetry being completed inhouse.

I am one of the people who has patiently waited. Why you may ask, just show me another two way design in the world that has a cross over point of 800hz and has controlled dispersion via a waveguide. It does not exist as far as I am aware.

Now that Bob's manufacturing issues are behind him (mine get shipped next week, all 5 of them) I think that SP Tech will do very well.

As soon as I have mine I will give a critique of them versus Meridian 5500 speakers many times their price which were my last speakers. It should be an interesting comparison. I read up on the physics of waveguides and I am expecting the Mini's to beat them in everything but lower bass (I would expect the continuims or better to equal or better them). While the meridians are a really nice sounding speaker I could still tell it was manufactured sound, like most speakers they simply lack the very subtle details and cue's that are required for realism. That is what I am expecting from the waveguide.

Phoenix

[ooheadsoo]

That is some mean competition.  It will indeed be interesting to see how the minis stack up against something as formidable as the meridian 5500.  3 way, Active and DSP room correction?

I am eager to hear the TP when they arrive with their 600hz xover 

I don't think there is anyone else in the world doing what Bob does with standard tweeters in that waveguide.  Don't forget his bass/cabinet technology, which I hear is out of this world, not only in the Revelation line, but also in the MR series, like the TP and TP mini 

I have also heard that Bob essentially has put outsourcing cabinets behind him and has improved his finishing system to the point where they can now easily do it all in house.  Lead time for orders placed today should not be nearly as long.

[spence]

Yeah, but 9 months? Last I heard, it takes that long to make a human...... but a pair of speakers? Unless there are circumstances that I'm unaware of, that's kind of silly.

[Geardaddy]

I have excepted longwaits as part of cutting edge, boutique audio.  To me, waiting for months and months for a product that will release you from the audiophile merry-go-round is absolutely worth it. 

[lonewolfny42]

I think Bob's delivery time will be improving now....did you read this post...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=52861.msg497990#msg497990

My Mini's have been worth the wait...

[Double Ugly]

My Mini's have been worth the wait...

A solid gold comment IMHO.   

A belated Happy B-day, Chris.  Things have been (are still are) busy 'round here; sorry to have missed it.

[lonewolfny42]

My Mini's have been worth the wait...

A solid gold comment IMHO.   

A belated Happy B-day, Chris.  Things have been (are still are) busy 'round here; sorry to have missed it.

Thank you Jim....I'm relaxing today...

And they have been worth the wait...



(But....hold on....this guy Lonewolf likes SP Tech's....how about those that have not heard them ?...what would they think?... )

We shall see.....

My TP2's are out and about now.....the Mini's go out around July 14th. .... comments will follow...different systems...different ears...should be interesting.

[Aether Audio]

Spence, et.al.,

Unless there are circumstances that I'm unaware of, that's kind of silly.

Thanks for the vote of support!    If you only knew what a small miracle those Timepiece 3.0s sitting in your living room really are.     But I don't think the real question is so much one of "knowing"... 

For prospective future customers or anyone else that actually "cares," I'll soon be making a posting that will settle the matter once and for all.  A "disclaimer" I'd guess you'd call it, but then everyone will know what to expect if they place an order. 

I find it interesting that there are other very small "niche" companies that are known for building some of the highest performing equipment in the world that require payment in advance and have a waiting list for at least a year.  Most often their products are built by one man working alone at a bench.  The only differences that I see between us and them is that our products are much bigger and more difficult to build, we only (now) have 2 men and one woman (part-time) and they have been in business longer, thereby having greater name recognition than we do.  Oh... one other difference, their customers - once convinced their product is what they desire to obtain - pay the money and simply wait. 

I even know of one very well known speaker company (that most are familiar with right here on the circle) that often requires pre-payment for new (very high-end) products and end up having very long lead times - often well beyond their projected dates.  This company is backed by an individual with "big money" and far greater resources, of which we could only dream of having.  Our products are claimed by others to out-perform theirs virtually every time (as claimed by our customers that have heard theirs), yet... we continue to get a black eye due to delays and they seem to (as Ian Anderson would put it) "paddle right out of the mess" without nary a word spoken of it.

Yes... we have severely under-estimated lead times and the customer deserves to have honest and truthfull knowledge up front before making a purchase decision - this is and has been totally our (my) fault and failure.  As I have repeatedly stated, in our (my) "ignorance" (I'm an engineer - I've never been formally trained in production management), we made a few errors in judgment early on that affected things for many months to come.  None the least of these "errors" was an underestimation of the resources required.  I have and still do struggle coming to terms with this issue as well.  Baptism by fire I guess you'd call it, but we're a bit wiser now and my time estimates should start getting better.  I'm not offering this as any form of excuse - just as the reason - for those that may care.  In any case, I will soon make the posting mentioned above and then future customers will have the info they need before making a purchase.

But along the way... and I understand folks concerns to the contrary... it strikes me as rather odd that some folks just aren't picking up on what SP Tech is really all about.  Review after review and comment after comment - claims are made that place our products beyond the fray - regardless of price - and in comparison we might as well almost be giving them away.  You never see them for sale used unless someone is having financial difficulties or wants to move up to one of our larger products.  Time and again folks continue to say "they were worth the wait."  Heck, the Timepiece Minis alone (at $2,495.00) have been compared to speakers in the $10K range.  We've even sold two systems to former customers (they are upgrading) that will retail for (yes, the price has gone up) $45,000.00/pair... and the design was nothing more than a concept on paper when they put their money down.  Was that a matter of "trust" and keeping their "fingers crossed"?  No... having already owned our products they KNEW what to expect.  Oh... and did I mention that every pair is custom built to your liking if you so desire?

My point is that by now I would have thought more folks would have started picking up on the fact that SP Tech is building some of the best loudspeakers in the world - and at a fraction of the price others command for similar performance.  In Denmark, Karsten's Revelation system has been auditioned and critiqued by a reviewer for one of the Danish magazines.  In his opinion, the closest he's ever heard in performance was a Marten Designs "Coltrane" based system... that retailed for $500,000.00!!!  Now... Karsten "may" have something like $30-35K in his whole setup and the reviewer believes it out-performs the Coltranes?  This gentleman is so impressed that he's going to purchase a pair of Revelation Grand Masters (remember: never been built yet) as well - and I'm not stretching the truth one little bit.

So... time is money and money is time.  If SP Tech had the financial resources we really need, we would be just as "fast" as the rest.  If we charged what we "should" be charging based on the competition's performance and their prices... you'd all have gotten your speakers a lot sooner - if you would have been able to afford them at all.  The question is: "How much VALUE do you place on your patience"? 

But... SP Tech is small and most of you aren't either rich enough or willing to pay what we really should be charging for our products.  The negative consequence for you is waiting longer for your speakers than would be the case with bigger, more well known companies.  The negative consequence for us is slow growth... and more worry and headaches than most of you would ever put up with in your own life... or know.

phoenix_rising, ooheadsoo, Geardaddy, lonewolfny42 & Double Ugly,

THANKS!!!

-Bob

[Rocket_Ronny]

I can tell you what the Minni's sound like compared to the timepiece 2's, even though I have not heard them.

The 2's will have greater bass extension and impact. This would be the greatest difference one would notice. Now, add a great sub to the mini's and the gap will close considerably.

The mini's will be a notch ahead in the refinement end of things. Just easier to listen to in the mids on up, due to the upgraded crossover.

But the real biggy for me would be that the mini's will disappear better due to the smaller baffle width. Not just that, but with it the sound stage will be less forward, images smaller and better focussed, and a sense of a more real musical event unfolding in front of you.

You heard it here first folks. Now all I need is a pair of mini's to see if what I have said is half true. 

Rocket_Ronny

[phoenix_rising]

Yeah, but 9 months? Last I heard, it takes that long to make a human...... but a pair of speakers? Unless there are circumstances that I'm unaware of, that's kind of silly.

Anything new goes through a lot of teething problems. It is a case of testing one idea after the other until you find something that works suitably and that can take a lot of time. As I said name one other speaker that has a waveguide that crosses as low and any of the SP Tech speakers, that did not come by just slapping some speakers in a box and designing a simple cross-over like most other speakers. That it is happening at all is a significant achievement in itself.

Personally I would rather wait so that Bob could get it right and all the quality issues are resolved both technical and aesthetic before I get my speakers rather than get something that I could find fault with.

Phoenix

[konut]

After 35 years of buying audio gear, if ones paying attention, one notices what works, and what doesn't. If you happen upon a component which not only meets your criteria for design but also succeeds in implementation AND is a stone cold bargain to boot, it is incumbant upon you to temper your enthusiasm with patience. Each of us must calculate this equation depending on our own individual perceptions of risk, value, and quality. As each of us percieves reality in a different way, the results of the equation will be different. As my mom used to say, if we voiced negativity when she served dinner, "If you don't want it, don't eat it".  

[Wind Chaser]

As my mom used to say, if we voiced negativity when she served dinner, "If you don't want it, don't eat it".  

That's not how things worked with my mom.  Long before "DSOTM" and "The Wall" - she'd say to me, "You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat."

Anything in life that is truly outstanding is worth enduring the wait.  If you really know what you want, you'll wait for it.  Most people in their lust for something different constantly switch out parts of their audio system for something new because they really aren't too sure about what they want.  But if you come across something special and you had to wait for it, chances are you'll think twice before replacing it. 

That's how I see SP Tech owners.  Unlike most stuff, they scarely come up for resale.  Apart from what makes them truly special, owners know that if they were to let them go, they can't replace them too soon or at the snap of their fingers like so many mass produced products.

One can only speculate if there is a pair of speakers Lonewolfny42 hasn't heard or will not hear.  He seems to be quite happy with his speakers in so much that he bought another pair.  That in itself is quite telling.

[dart6]

Yes Bobs comments above pretty much put this whole thing in a nut shell,couldn't have put it better.I live the other side of the globe [New Zealand] and bought the continumm 2.5s purely from reading this forum. Far more wheat than chaff as compared to other forums. Anyway i'm happy to wait for my Rev GMs [2/3] paid but then i would, wouldn't I, having the continumms already. Cheers

[phoenix_rising]

That is some mean competition.  It will indeed be interesting to see how the minis stack up against something as formidable as the meridian 5500.  3 way, Active and DSP room correction?

The meridians did not have the room correction but my room at the time was fully treated so it would not have made a huge difference. They were full digital and they were the closest thing to perfect I could find at the time. So yes I would definitely call them formidable and the sound was very very good just not real which is what I am striving for this time around. If the mini's do what I think they will do then I will be a candidate for one of the larger units with more dynamic range than the mini. The mini's are being paired with a couple of Rythmik subs in case you were wondering.

Phoenix

[bbchem]

   Look, I don't want to sound redundant, but I will summarize the difference between the other 30 pairs of speakers and the Minis which I consider my reference speaker and have actually stopped trading or looking for another. As I said, I would trade up the line if I could afford to. anyway here is the difference and this is by no means a small thing. All of us so called Audiophiles searching for the Holy Grail have an intense curiousity to find that perfect loudspeaker. Of course the perfect loudspeaker would be a band playing acoustic music in your house, since that would be the most lifelike you can get, although not always as good sounding as a proper recording set up for the purpose of pleasing someones ears. OK enough here are the MAJOR DIFFERENCES>>

1. INSTRUMENTS AREN'T JUST PLACED WELL IN TIME AND SPACE, YOU CAN FEEL THE VIBRATIONS OF THE INSTRUMENTS AS WELL!!!
2. STARTLING "YOU ARE THERE " DYNAMICS WITH NO HINT OF THE FACT THEY ARE COMING FROM A MATERIAL OBJECT, MANY SPEAKERS OFFER THIS BUT NOT AS OUT THERE AS THESE.
3. BASS IS TIGHT, FULL, THUNDEROUS, LIFELIKE

Well, there you go, who could ask for more?? These speakers for the most part are what anyone in the Audiophile camp is looking for and can't seem to find. I am so happy that I don't have to beat my head against the wall thinking about my next purchase. Bob Rules!!!   

[spence]

Didn't mean to rowl any feathers, but maybe I did. I didn't hear anyone say that the speakers weren't "worth  the wait".  They are without a doubt. Mine aren't going anywhere. I just feel for the guys who are still waiting 9 months after they ordered. If SP Tech were better known with boatloads of orders (not a mass market manufacturer), I'd understand the long wait. But my guess is that people aren't knocking down the door to get to Bob's speakers.....yet. I guess I should probably just keep quiet, but my curiosity always gets the best of me. With everything up and running correctly now, how long does it actually take to complete one pair of Mini's (assuming past problems don't rear their ugly head)? Bob, I stand behind you 100% and speak very highly of your speakers. I'll shut up now.

[Christof]

people aren't knocking down the door to get to Bob's speakers.....yet

You might be surprised



I think it's important for folks to know that Bob's cabinets are not simple Mickey Mouse boxes to build.  The waveguide baffles made from solid wood glue-ups are not something that get banged out on a machine in China while he and Jason play golf in KOP.  In fact, the last time I spoke with Bob he was sourcing baffle glue-ups from Amish craftsmen....think about that, Amish guys contributing to the Audiophile community.  Bob designed a very complicated box and baffle system and now he and Jason are trying to figure out how to build the thing in a timely manner.  Bob could have compromised his designs and based his speaker around an easy to build box and baffle system which would get them out the door faster but then they would sound like.....well, compromised speakers.  I've visited Bob's shop completely unannounced on many occasions and I assure you he has always been hard at work....too hard.   Without a doubt things will fall into place for SP Tech, both in terms of marketing and manufacturing but it takes time.   End of rant.

[playntheblues]

Don't mean to hi-jack the thread but it could be worse, at lot worse..................You could be on the waiting list for LS 9's , two years now and no cabinet manufacturers in site

Just hoping that makes you feel a little better 
Guy