Tone Tubby alnico hemp drivers

Graham Maynard · « **Reply #100 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 09:11 am »

Hi painkiller,

Why not bring the effective sensitivity of the Super Boy down to match other drivers by using a transformer.

Most transformers should work well between 100Hz and 5kHz, and there would be no loss of accuracy as can arise when using series resistor networks etc.

Cheers ........ Graham.

ttan98 · « **Reply #101 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 09:38 am »

Painkiller,

I have a JBL 15" midbass driver that can be used as a midrange, I can currently interfacing it with a compression driver around 2khz. This driver has about 100spl like your 15" bass boy.

This combo sounds quite good, like you I am looking for a a bass driver, I much prefer it to be housed in vented or seal enclosure rather than OB. Bass driver from AE or GR(Rhymik) seems to be a good option.

painkiller · « **Reply #102 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 10:45 am »

Quote from: scorpion on 7 Jul 2008, 08:56 am

In the meantime why not put up a new measurement of your 12" now that you have played with them for a good while, that would be interesting.

I'm sorry. As I said a bit earlier I got a good price for them and sold them off while I had the chance. I couldn't stand the >10dB midrange elevation. Those double dipped cones are hopeless. But after hearing the Super Boys I've regained faith in the TT drivers.

The system I suggested in my previous post with the 10" alnicos are high up on my wishlist. But now there's a hole in my economy due to vacations, so it may take a while before I get to realize my plans.

I'll be sure to let you know when I can get my hands on some untreated 10" drivers. You are welcome for a listen when theres something to listen to.

Graham: Isn't it a shame to reduce sensitivity with these drivers? If too high SPL is the problem then it would be cheaper to just get a pair of less efficient drivers.

scorpion · « **Reply #103 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 01:30 pm »

Sorry, I didn't read your post carefully enough. Killed your pain, eh ?

/Erling

Graham Maynard · « **Reply #104 on:** 8 Jul 2008, 08:07 am »

Hi painkiller,

I agree it would be a shame to reduce the SPL/W/m sensitivity of your Super Boy in order to match other LS drivers having lesser sensitivity in your system.
The reproduction quality of a high efficiency driver is related to it having direct connection with the amplifier, without any series or parallel R,L,C networks etc.

However, only a transformer can maintain that connection and change SPL per Volt of drive without component adulteration, as with 70V or 100V line transformers which offer 'Watt' power taps.
It is the voltage sensitivity which is changed; not the SPL/W/m transduction characteristic.

Maybe even use different transformer taps for different frequency ranges instead of multiple amplifiers ?

Cheers ......... Graham

Dmason · « **Reply #105 on:** 8 Jul 2008, 08:24 pm »

I agree with Graham wholeheartedly; without knowing the details, it sounds as though SuperBoy 15 might in some way be a godsend of an option. A 100db 15inch killer midband is, in my opinion, a good thing.

I know Fostex has very high quality transformers for a decent price, and it seems to me that likely even better $ value might be had sourcing them from the people who do whole room installations, with remote volume controls mounted on switch plates, on walls. www.fostexinternational.com www.madisound.com

A balanced design using this Green Monkey means one is now open to use tiny triode amps. At 100db, the David Berning Micro ZOTL comes to mind, a OTL design using 6SN7 which works best on battery power

you could crack the walls with 3/4 watts with that thing. I am very much looking forward to hearing about the SuperBoy. I think transformers for that one, are the way forward.

TerryO · « **Reply #106 on:** 8 Jul 2008, 09:12 pm »

Quote from: Dmason on 8 Jul 2008, 08:24 pm

I agree with Graham wholeheartedly; without knowing the details, it sounds as though SuperBoy 15 might in some way be a godsend of an option. A 100db 15inch killer midband is, in my opinion, a good thing.

I know Fostex has very high quality transformers for a decent price, and it seems to me that likely even better $ value might be had sourcing them from the people who do whole room installations, with remote volume controls mounted on switch plates, on walls. www.fostexinternational.com www.madisound.com

A balanced design using this Green Monkey means one is now open to use tiny triode amps. At 100db, the David Berning Micro ZOTL comes to mind, a OTL design using 6SN7 which works best on battery power you could crack the walls with 3/4 watts with that thing. I am very much looking forward to hearing about the SuperBoy. I think transformers for that one, are the way forward.

I have to disagree with you on that last statement, as I believe that a full watt to maybe 1.5 watts are necessary to achieve that sense of effortless, seemingly unlimited power needed to convey music as it is heard live.

Actually, I'm kidding a bit on that, but I do think that transformers certainly offer possibilities that have not been sufficiently investigated.
In the past I've used a Radio Shack Wall mount stereo volume control (autoformer) for level matching, etc., and it's been a big help and the possibilities have by no means been exhausted.

Best Regards,
TerryO

Dmason · « **Reply #107 on:** 8 Jul 2008, 09:16 pm »

I agree as well TerryO, however and BUT, it is highly sexy to think of using a monster hemp 15 as a wideband driver, and actually being ABLE to power it with a battery powered tube amp of a stonking 0.75 watts.

This is a happy thing. 2 watts would be power AND glory, no doubt.

Transformers do need to be explored and there is no need to spend audiophool $ on the more obvious comers. We need options on cost effective transformer attenuators.

Viridian · « **Reply #108 on:** 12 Jul 2008, 12:30 am »

Very interesting thread. So, I must ask since I haven't yet seen any posts about them: has anyone tried the new Brown Soun HempTone FR drivers? They are supposed to have been released June 1, but I don't see any specs on the site. I am super sure that you guys are aware of them. Right? Is it the greater efficiency which keeps all eyes on the TT's? I am wondering how the Hemptones might compare with the HempAcoustics FR drivers. Any thoughts?

Dmason · « **Reply #109 on:** 15 Jul 2008, 07:05 pm »

I think the Tone Tubby ER8 is brilliant as an addition, it is the V4 edition of the FR8 cone, motor, and thinking, but, without the whizzer, which to me makes all the difference.

Obscure, and abit below our radar, but already proven by friend, and OB Arch-Lord Dr Kurt Chang, is the Tone Tubby Ceramic 8 guitar speaker. Kurt has been messing with OB stuff, in high rotation, for many years now, in fact, he was one of the first DIY OB-nauts, and he reported to me that in alot of ways using the Ceramic 8 yielded the best sound he had got yet, and this from a bewildering array of combinations, over close to ten years. He also found he preferred it without ANY tweetage, as he had tried it with the Neo ribbon thing from GR Research, and found that imparted a rather artificial vibe to the well known, chocolatey, organic gestalt of the hemp cones. Also, they are considerably cheaper than the ER8. Scott at www.svvintageamps.com has great deals on these. Considering Kurt's august opinion on the matter, I would recommend the Ceramic guitar 8 to try.

painkiller · « **Reply #110 on:** 18 Jul 2008, 06:50 pm »

Well, I measured the response of the Superboy mounted in ear height in a 500x1000mm baffle.

The 5dB fluctuations are noise from the soundcard.

I had to use 1/24 octave smoothing, or else the soundcard noise was too apparent. I obviously need to get a better soundcard. These measurements are way too unreliable.

The driver rolls off at 200Hz and 3Khz, which was a bit surprising. It seemed to be identical to the 12" alnico, except for the dipped cone's annoying midband peak. A little disappointing I have to say. But the Superboy seems to be incredibly flat within in it's range.

Coupled with a tweeter in a short horn, with a 4,7uF cap in series, I managed to get a flat response to 21Khz. And the sound is really good. It's actually possible to EQ impressive bass out of these drivers without any sense of driving them to their limit. Not recommended of course, but I think it will be hard to damage them. And they are sooo dynamic. If it were possible to get some suitable bass drivers, this could really be a speaker to scare the living daylight out of even the hardest criminal.

Dmason · « **Reply #111 on:** 18 Jul 2008, 09:06 pm »

Very impressively flat within its useable bandwidth, very attractive response there. I like. Also note that with even 6db contour in the lower register this thing will do real bass, OB-style at least.

What tweeter/short horn did you try?

Seems there are several Tone Tubbys that fill the bill. Does the SuperBoy 15 impart a "BIG" hemp sound? Big drivers sound big.

painkiller · « **Reply #112 on:** 18 Jul 2008, 09:29 pm »

I don't really know what you put into the expression "sounding big", but they do share the same overall character with the 12" Alnico hemp driver, so I guess that means they both have the hemp sound and the big sound.

They sound very pleasant really. More so than the 12" H1EDD Alnicos.

The Superboys are extremely detailed, and very fast. And, my god, these drivers are so loud. Your ears will definitely start bleeding before reaching maximum SPL. The only problem is that the tweeter and bass drivers start giving in long before reaching higher levels. It won't be easy to make a 3 way system without reducing sensitivity, as Grayham mentioned.

I ripped the tweeters from my Triangle speakers. I guess they are not commercially available, and I don't have the specs. Just a stroke of luck that they seem to match. It's a 1" titanium dome tweeter with a 2" (?) conical horn. Nothing very impressive really. And it does have that bleeding edge at higher levels. No permanent solution.

ttan98 · « **Reply #113 on:** 19 Jul 2008, 05:15 am »

I am thinking of getting the 10" TT Bass Boy(for vented enclosue, x-over around 1.5-1.7Khz), looking at your FR curve(thanks for the curve) for the 15"(I assume), I am now more incline to get it. It is only $105 each and the sound should be similar to 15".

Cheers.

painkiller · « **Reply #114 on:** 19 Jul 2008, 09:37 am »

Yes, the curve is for the 15" 16ohm version. I guess they would sound similar, yes. But have you simulated the 10" in a vented enclosure? Wouldn't you need a big enclosure to get any bass extension? I think Beyma have more suitable drivers if you want deep bass. But then again, I really like the Tone Tubbys.

ttan98 · « **Reply #115 on:** 19 Jul 2008, 11:30 am »

Yes the Beyma has a few suitable models, but I have a Hemptone midrange, TT Bass Boy will complement it. Some Beyma models are more expensive. I found a place in the States who can transport TT to Australia.

Viridian · « **Reply #116 on:** 19 Jul 2008, 03:19 pm »

I've been conversing with DMason offline a bit and now feel that pulling the trigger on the ER8's will be what I'll do next. No tweeters and possibly bring in my Coral 12" woofers for the low end. Dan made the point that these drivers are made explicitly for prerecorded music vs the guitar drivers and that was enough to sway me in that direction. Also, in speaking with Art at BrounSound, he said that the 8" ceramic TT and the 8"ER are very similar. So, I will be receiving the drivers before long(along with my USBMonica3 DAC) and will stuff them into some chintzy test baffles(OB) and give my impressions shortly thereafter. The reports here of the hemp's sweet musicality were simply too much for me and I couldn't resist. Cheers.

Dmason · « **Reply #117 on:** 19 Jul 2008, 03:41 pm »

Art's comparison is interesting; coupled with Kurt's observation that he liked his new Combo best without any tweeter, and it would seem that either of these will work well. Kurt also mentioned he had about 10 of his fellow choristers over to listen to music they were to practice, and to have them audition the hemp cones with OBeez, and they ALL preferred the Ceramic 8 without the Neo8 tweeter (or any tweeter) that it detracted from the sound. They were all very attracted to the TONE of the Tone Tubbys, and not an audiophool amongst them. Their comments employed words like, "warm," "smooth," "organic," etc. I already know my hearing well enough to know that I wouldnt bother with a tweeter with either of these. YMMV.

I get the feeling that one could put together an inexpensive, KILLER OB set up, based on what has been learned, with the ER8, and Alpha15. All of the good stuff, all at the same time.

nodiak · « **Reply #118 on:** 19 Jul 2008, 04:42 pm »

This is all interesting to me as have used the 1st gen FR8 (Hemp Acoustics) on ob with whizzers removed and phase plugs. I've tried some tweeters - Scanspeak 9300 in zaph style waveguide, and neo3pdr. Recently have gone back to no tweeter. Was thinking about the new ER8 too.
My room has unavoidable bass lift that makes bass helpers hard to blend with hemp's tone and clarity. 15's I have tried energize the room too much so far. So am probably going to try the beta 12lta (in 1.5 with hemps), as comments are about it's mid clarity, and I can use small baffle for cut off ~ 80-100hz, then to sub.
Enjoying the experiments!
Don

androuski · « **Reply #119 on:** 19 Jul 2008, 06:05 pm »

Hi,
2nd post here... this is a great place for OB lovers.
Is there anyone that could help me to find out the 12" Tone Tubby San Rafael (this is the non-alnico one) spec. ? I was wondering if it could perform well too in a low-priced OB design