Tone Tubby alnico hemp drivers

Dmason · « **Reply #40 on:** 22 May 2008, 01:18 pm »

As I understand it, it is not a coating, but an enzyme treatment, which would mean a water based solution. The enzyme would partially digest the hemp fibers, relaxing them, contributing perhaps to more cone flex. I would not think in terms of "coating," with resultant increase in cone mass, added weight.

Talk to Art at TT, if you want it from the horse's mouth.

painkiller · « **Reply #41 on:** 22 May 2008, 01:30 pm »

Well, I've already ordered the treated cone, so I guess we'll se what it looks and sounds like eventually. If it doesn't sound or measure any good I can allways use one in my guitar amp and sell the other. The proof will be in the eating... of the hemp pudding.

Nullspace, if you could send me the contact info to the guy calibrating the Behringer mics that would be great. Just use a PM.

zobsky · « **Reply #42 on:** 22 May 2008, 02:12 pm »

Quote from: painkiller on 21 May 2008, 08:33 pm

Quote from: Dmason on 21 May 2008, 06:40 pm
they sound fantastic full range; caveat: I have tinnitus, and hyperacuisis, so my hearing is more than happy with a decidedly lower bandwidth for music

I guess I'll have to buy a measuring mic, a soundcard, SPL meter, and some audio software and start measuring the response in different baffles. aa

I use ARTA and a simple homebrew mic / preamp for getting a handle on impedance, T/S parameters and Frequency Response curves. You don't need to spend a lot, just be sure to get the correct mic capsule . See link.

http://zobsky.blogspot.com

iON · « **Reply #43 on:** 22 May 2008, 03:35 pm »

Quote from: painkiller on 22 May 2008, 01:30 pm

Well, I've already ordered the treated cone, so I guess we'll se what it looks and sounds like eventually. If it doesn't sound or measure any good I can allways use one in my guitar amp and sell the other. The proof will be in the eating... of the hemp pudding.

Ok, just clear this up. You didn't order a coated driver but actually a tubby with the H1EDD (the brightest version) cone ? .. Thats a different story. No worries then.

Enjoy the pudding

painkiller · « **Reply #44 on:** 23 May 2008, 06:12 am »

Quote from: iON on 22 May 2008, 03:35 pm

Ok, just clear this up. You didn't order a coated driver but actually a tubby with the H1EDD (the brightest version) cone ? .. Thats a different story. No worries then.

Yes, I think it's called H1EDD. Sorry for the misunderstanding. To be honest I don't really know what's the difference between the drivers, so I have no idea what to expect. Does anyone know how the different cone versions have been treated?

A diy measuring microphone looks interresting. I couldn't find a local supplier that offers the panasonic though. There are some other Veco Vansonic I could get, with similar specs, but I can't read the datasheet because it's in Chinese.

http://www.elfa.se/pdf/30/03010303.pdf So I'd have no idea of the linearity.

scorpion · « **Reply #45 on:** 23 May 2008, 08:48 am »

Hey painkiller,

Look here: http://www.svalander.se/shoppen/mik.htm or here: http://www.madaboutsound.com/prod_det.asp?product_id=10 .
Quite local !

/Erling

painkiller · « **Reply #46 on:** 23 May 2008, 09:14 am »

Quote from: scorpion on 23 May 2008, 08:48 am

Look here: http://www.svalander.se/shoppen/mik.htm or here: http://www.madaboutsound.com/prod_det.asp?product_id=10 .
Quite local !

Thanks! I just ordered from MAS. Don't like to sit around an wait for things to happen.

So now I'll receive a couple of 12" drivers and a measuring mic in less than two weeks, and then I'll get to work immediately I guess.

Michael V · « **Reply #47 on:** 23 May 2008, 04:48 pm »

Painkiller-

I like your spirit. Looking forward to your findings!

Regards

painkiller · « **Reply #48 on:** 30 May 2008, 07:45 am »

Finally the drivers are on their way. Hopefully, in 3-8 days I'll have my own Tone Tubbys. aa

painkiller · « **Reply #49 on:** 31 May 2008, 11:18 am »

I received the microphone elements today. Quick delivery from Mad About Sound.

Next weekend I'll be going on a rock festival to see Judas Pries with original lineup, so there won't be done any work here until at least next week.

painkiller · « **Reply #50 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 09:53 am »

Quote from: zobsky on 22 May 2008, 02:12 pm

I use ARTA and a simple homebrew mic / preamp for getting a handle on impedance, T/S parameters and Frequency Response curves. You don't need to spend a lot, just be sure to get the correct mic capsule . See link.

http://zobsky.blogspot.com

I put together my microphone during the weekend. It took about 15 minutes to whip it up.

But do you have any tips for calibrating ARTA, or is it unnecessary when measuring relative values? I've measured the response of my current speakers, and it seems somewhat reasonable? The absolute values will of course be inaccurate, but what about the relative values? The response has some +-5dB dips and peaks, and it seems to fluctuate somewhat. Is this normal behaviour?

JeffB · « **Reply #51 on:** 3 Jun 2008, 10:24 pm »

Painkiller,

How did you put the Microphone together?
I assume it needs a shaft of some sort?

It is funny I never really gave one thought to your user name.
I fricken love that Painkiller album.
I am seeing Priest in August

zobsky · « **Reply #52 on:** 3 Jun 2008, 10:33 pm »

Quote from: painkiller on 2 Jun 2008, 09:53 am

Quote from: zobsky on 22 May 2008, 02:12 pm
I use ARTA and a simple homebrew mic / preamp for getting a handle on impedance, T/S parameters and Frequency Response curves. You don't need to spend a lot, just be sure to get the correct mic capsule . See link.

http://zobsky.blogspot.com

I put together my microphone during the weekend. It took about 15 minutes to whip it up.

But do you have any tips for calibrating ARTA, or is it unnecessary when measuring relative values? I've measured the response of my current speakers, and it seems somewhat reasonable? The absolute values will of course be inaccurate, but what about the relative values? The response has some +-5dB dips and peaks, and it seems to fluctuate somewhat. Is this normal behaviour?

Confession: I never bothered with calibration for my purposes.

My guess is that you'd need to borrow an SPL meter, a multimeter and some test tones to calibrate it. I thought ARTA had some documentation on the calibration procedure.

Response can fluctuate a bit, .. but shouldn't be too much . For example, you shouldn't have a peak at 4 KHz on one reading only to see the peak move to 8 KHz the next reading. Are you sure you aren't picking up sounds from your environment or your PC fans?

Re. +/- 5dB dips and peaks, maybe part of the issue is calibration. The rest is the reality of real world tests (manufacturers graphs that we often see are over-smoothed)

painkiller · « **Reply #53 on:** 5 Jun 2008, 07:22 am »

I built the microphone from zobsky's instructions, with a ballpoint pen, a 10uF cap, a 2k2 resistor and a 9V battery.

The bigger peaks and dips occur at the same place every time, so I guess the measurements don't fluctuate that much. I do get some background noise though, from computers, kitchen fans, fridge and so on. But I hope it'll be good enough to roughly measure the in room response of the tone tubby to find decent crossover points and matching tweeters and bass drivers.

The Norwegian customs have had my drivers for 3 days now. Hope they don't return them due to the hemp content.

Dmason · « **Reply #54 on:** 5 Jun 2008, 11:50 am »

I am looking forward to these measurements. I believe it is THC that is illegal, in Norway

If you follow the Ariel thread on www.diyaudio.com Jon Ver Halen, the Lowther representative for the US, recently built a pair of OBeez using the TT 12 as a lower register driver, along with a PM6A, and several people wrote that it was the stand-out sound of the VSAC show. Jon stated that the Tone Tubby easily hung in until at least 60Hz, mounted down low, making it easy for about any sub to fill in the rest, and also stated he really liked the sound of them, although he wasnt going to push that button too hard, seeing as he is in business to sell the most expensive drivers on the planet. Just about.

I saw that as an important anecdote. Not one that was needed to prove anything, however. So, I would expect nothing but glee in your assessments. Good luck with customs.

scorpion · « **Reply #55 on:** 5 Jun 2008, 02:34 pm »

Dan,

I am also looking forward to these measurements but you stated your favorite was the 10" TT, why ?
You are always looking for the ultimate midrange in some way and in OB this should be able to go 200 - 5000 Hz without any problems and sound extremly good!
And also could you give some page info for the 'Beyond Ariel'-thread to get to the relevant passage ?

/Erling

nodiak · « **Reply #56 on:** 5 Jun 2008, 04:53 pm »

Looks nice, clean design/build. Short comment from Jon Ver Halen pg 385, post 3847.
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/vsac20082/vsac_3.html
scroll halfway down.
More, with a back view, used a motor run cap:
http://www.jenalabs.com/shows/shows.html
A 12" may be about right for me too (with a sub) as the 15" driver I'm trying is overloading my room in the lowest region.

Dmason · « **Reply #57 on:** 5 Jun 2008, 07:58 pm »

The ultimate midrange seems to come from the combination of light paper cone, and Alnico magnet. The hemp bit is just the icing on the cake. ...For example, I poached a pair of mint NOS "Pioneer" 4.5 inch drivers, clearly Fukiun manufacture, ultra well made, rated for 15 watts, which is a huge plus, and stuck them on some chunks of MDF and propped them up on me dresser, and .....THERE IT IS ....the magic sound. Very light paper cone in something of that "ilk," and relatively enormous magnet. Take a step back and ask what something like this would cost today? Not many choices, and all of them enormously more expensive than the Ten Dollars I spent for the pair. And? No whizzer cones. In some important ways, "superior."

"if ever a whizz there was" -Judy Garland

I like the 10 inch because as a smaller cone, it is more responsive (as a mains driver) and goes higher. Get rid of the dustcap, (and they are happy to comply per order,) and you can easily push the 10 well up there, past 6 or even 7kHz, is my impression. For something in the way Jon, and presumably yourself will implement it, I would choose the 12. It reaches down easy to 60, well, depending on what musical genre you listen MOST to, bass augmentation becomes rather optional. Classical and jazz on vinyl, there you go. The photo of the rear tells you everything you need to know about HOW it is set up. The real interesting combo would be the 12 AND, the 10, the upper 10 with a big azz phase plug turned out of the same hard Maple used in those tasty baffles a la Cain.

I am now seriously thinking about the 2 way approach using the 12, and the little "Pioneer" 4.5 inchers for everything else, with a view toward finding some 5 inch "Pioneers." ps: there are still 2 pairs available on eBay, just type in Pioneer + alnico and see fo yoseff.

painkiller · « **Reply #58 on:** 6 Jun 2008, 07:42 am »

Quote from: Dmason on 5 Jun 2008, 11:50 am

I am looking forward to these measurements. I believe it is THC that is illegal, in Norway

If you follow the Ariel thread on www.diyaudio.com Jon Ver Halen, the Lowther representative for the US, recently built a pair of OBeez using the TT 12 as a lower register driver, along with a PM6A, and several people wrote that it was the stand-out sound of the VSAC show.

Whats THC? The Tennessee Historical Commission? Or is it Tetrahydrocannabinol aka The Happy Chemical? In that case, yes, it would be illegal.

Thanks for the info on Ver Halen's OB's. That's really interresting. I don't think I'll be using it as a lower register driver though. I hope to use it fullrange with a tweeter, and maye a woofer. Still I'm really looking forward to receiving the drivers. It'll be my first meeting with wide range high efficiency speaker drivers. Exciting!

I'm planning to try low mounting in a 900x800mm baffle, and then higher mounting on a more wife-friendly baffle of something like 500x1000mm with room for a 15" woofer. So first I'll just make a really simple construction with MDF or plywood just to see which baffle shape has the most potential, and then I'll make a more rigid and attractive baffle afterwards. I anyone has tips or requests regarding baffle shapes and sizes, I'll see what I can do.

Depending on how much I like it I might go all the way and make an it a big project, with extra 10" drivers, phase plugs, woofers and better tweeters. If I hate it, the drivers will be a nice addition to my guitar rig.

Dmason · « **Reply #59 on:** 6 Jun 2008, 01:48 pm »

Historically, if you live in Tennessee, you will eventually become round, and green... in the US, hemp itself was outlawed, as a result of the DuPont lobby's strenuous efforts, the result of which sold ALOT more nylon cordage, than hemp, particularly to the navy, and merchant marine. George Washington derived most of his farm-income, during his presidency, from the growth and processing of hemp.

Historically, there has been ALOT more hemp grown in Northern California than just about anywhere else. Eventually they evolved from woven necklaces and ankle bracelets, to guitar cones, and other rock n roll accessories, such as the compressed hemp "smokeless" concert joint-holder. In Sonoma County, you get fine wines, hemp clothing and guitar cones, and vegetable-based dyes. In San Jose County, you get, Apple Computer, and Intel. Two different worlds, one Bay separating the two.

I myself prefer simple two way OB, therefore I would be inclined to build this using the 12 but perhaps mounting it down lower, a la Ver Halen, as we now know it can easily hang with 60Hz, possibly abit lower with contouring. The measurements Gary Pimm made suggest it is clean and smooth right up to 5.5kHz, making the implementation of treble fairly easy I would think, although cone diameter and beam point become an issue.

It seems there is a new series of Tone Tubby driver known as the San Rafael series, 10 & 12, and they sport ceramic magnets, and very attractive pricing.