[ttan98]

Lots of interresting information here. I'm working on getting some simulation software, mathcad and orcad and some worksheets. Still unable to get in touch with A Brown though. Have tried every e-mail adress and contact form, but no luck. 

I'm thinking that this tweeter http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-400&FTR=RT1C-A&CFID=27871383&CFTOKEN=64053518 could match the 10" driver in SPL and with decent response to 20Khz. Question is if there'll be mismatch in sonic signature?

So with crossoverless 10" TT's, tweeter with 1st order crossover at somewhere between 8 and 10kHz and then eq the whole thing for a flat response and add an active woofer. Could it work?

Aurum Cantus G2Si is a better match at 96db, must be crossed above 3Khz. Costs $80-$90 each go to PE for details.

[FlorianO]

John,

This  is a darn interesting project, pretty close to my "dream OB"

For what it's worth, I'm working on a 2.5way using 2x TT 12" on open baffle plus compression driver/ horn (presently, 1000hz 50deg. conical + either B&C DE250 or Beyma CP380M). Even with the helper woofer, I'm planning on the low-end just making it to 100hz. While that means I'll need to use a sub, it buys me ~100db/1W for the mains.

I would include the BMS 4540 ND in that list of CDs to try. I've "heard" it works really great in that DDS horn (i.e. DDS ENG 1-90) with only a modicum of EQ. Of course, it needs to be LPed no lower than 1.6k. The only potential problem might be matching a "beaming" 12''er working that high ...Maybe the 10'' would be better there ? I'm sure you'll keep us updated

One last thing: Were you thinking about HP-ing the TTs ? If so, how and where ?

I think a three-way crossed-over passively would be quite difficult, for a variety of reasons. Currently, it looks as though I'll be passively crossing the TTs and the horn, but my sub will have a PLLXO and dedicated sub amp.

Amen to that. I was thinking either about the Rythmik sub or two pairs of 21'' driven by a nice plate amp (smth like Reckhorn plate amp)

Looking forward for progress, this looks like a great project !!

Good luck,

Florian

[nullspace]

Good luck,

Florian

Thanks for the well-wishes Florian; I surely need them.

I have a BMS 4550 on hand, so I mean to try that as well. I'm going CD by CD (currently on Beyma CP380M, B&C DE250 is next, then the BMS. Radian 475PB did not work out particularly well -- too much constant directivity eq required), trying to work up an appropriate crossover for each. Then, at the end, I'll decide which I like best. Maybe by the end of the process I'll actually have a modicum of proficiency with this stuff...

LP for the TT12's will be somewhere between 1k and 2khz, I suspect. Based on my sims, no HP is required as the highish-Fs will help limit excursion. Don't laugh, but currently the setup is 1st-order series crossover between the top TT12 and the Beyma at ~1.2khz + 1st order parallel @ 270hz for the helper woofer. Only a smidge of constant-directivity eq is possible, because the ToneTubbys are so sensitive. IIRC +/-4db in room from 100hz to 10khz (the beyma has a couple narrow, deep dips at 2.2khz and 8khz). Sounds really good, but I fear the narrow-coverage horn is proving to be not my cup of tea. Too soon to tell, and it's not as though I know what I'm doing.

Regards,
John

[painkiller]

Finally. I got in touch with Tone Tubby's sales contact. His email was not something @abrown.com, but at a completely different domain. Strange. I found it at the Hemptone website.

Anyway, they are happy to offer the 10" TT Alnicos at a reasonable price, but shipping must be handled by the buyer. USPS offers affordable international shipping, so hopefully I'll have a couple of drivers on the way in a short time. 

I also requested some info about the 15" Superboy bass drivers, but the only information he could give was that "they are amazing". 

[jimluu]

Finally. I got in touch with Tone Tubby's sales contact. His email was not something @abrown.com, but at a completely different domain. Strange. I found it at the Hemptone website.

Anyway, they are happy to offer the 10" TT Alnicos at a reasonable price, but shipping must be handled by the buyer. USPS offers affordable international shipping, so hopefully I'll have a couple of drivers on the way in a short time. 

I also requested some info about the 15" Superboy bass drivers, but the only information he could give was that "they are amazing". 

I'm interested in these also, mostly the 12" alnicos.  What kinda prices was he talking about?  Could you PM me?  Maybe we can get a group buy together.

[ttan98]

I'm interested in these also, mostly the 12" alnicos.  What kinda prices was he talking about?  Could you PM me?  Maybe we can get a group buy together.

Go to this site for discounts on TTspeakers , this page is for TT 12" alnico.

http://www.svvintageamps.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_29&sort=2a&page=2

[painkiller]

Go to this site for discounts on TTspeakers , this page is for TT 12" alnico.

http://www.svvintageamps.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_29&sort=2a&page=2

Thanks for the tip! That's 20$ cheaper than buying directly from Tone Tubby. I've already been in contact with them, and they can ship coated 12" drivers by the end of May. They seemed really service minded and I got a quick reply on my e-mail. They accept PayPal and take care of the shipping themselves, so that's great.

[Dmason]

Steve at Southwestern Vintage Amps is a very cool guy indeed. I have dealt with him in the past, and my/our DIY friend Dr Kurt Chang went to see him personally, bought some speakers, but they got along so well they spent two hours talking about all kinds of things, from Eastern philosophy to high powered motorcycles, such is Steve. He also knows ALOT of Bay Area amp builders and so on, and I believe he would be an outstanding resource for someone looking to get a little two channel single ended tube action going, for their Tone Tubbys.

[Michael V]

Hi all-

I've been interested in the 12" alnico too. 

Does everyone think it might be a good driver to run crossoverless?  From what I've read, the HF roll-off is very smooth, and it shouldn't have any problem with excursions at non-concert spl's.

Regards,
Mike

[Dmason]

they sound fantastic full range; caveat: I have tinnitus, and hyperacuisis, so my hearing is more than happy with a decidedly lower bandwidth for music, BUT, one thing I found was the A-10, with active contouring produces all the treble-reach I personally require, and schitz, does it sound fine. It really is a sweet machine, a lighter cone, perhaps better mids IMO, but I do NOT think you can but be impressed, and mighty happy with either one. Lynn Olson & Gary Pimm's published measurement of the 12 says everything.

My next OB rig will employ the Tubby Alnico 10, and AE IB-15, or possibly 2X 12's if I can find something suitable.

I would be very interested in the results of the ALnico 12, in a JEL type baffle, a low rider, with boundary gain. I have heard the 2-10 in Fender Twins, and there is all kinds of low. I wouldnt worry at all about excursion, or over-excursion, these things are pretty bomb-proof. The hemp material is about as easy to tear as TyVek.

Oh, and you can drive yourself right out of the room with about ONE watt, with these things. I think a battery-powered, 6SN7 triode amp of 3/4 watts would be absolutely spot-on, for ALnico Tubbys on OB. Or the Darling.

[painkiller]

they sound fantastic full range; caveat: I have tinnitus, and hyperacuisis, so my hearing is more than happy with a decidedly lower bandwidth for music

Now I know who I won't take advice from in the future. 

Just kidding. That can't be pleasant. I've been struggling with chronic sinusitis for the past year, and it's been like walking around with my ears stuffed with cotton. That's quite annoying.

Anyway. I've ordered two 12" drivers with coated cone. It's quite a leap of faith, since I have no clue about the frequency response of this driver. I don't know how much extra mass the coating adds. Hopefully I'll get the high frequency extension I want. Who knows. I'll have them in a couple of weeks, and I will definitely be giving some listening impressions.

I guess I'll have to buy a measuring mic, a soundcard, SPL meter, and some audio software and start measuring the response in different baffles. aa

[gitarretyp]

I guess I'll have to buy a measuring mic, a soundcard, SPL meter, and some audio software and start measuring the response in different baffles. aa

You don't really need an spl meter. Also, Arta and Speaker Workshop are free and should do everything you need --Arta is much easier to use. I'd get a Behringer ECM8000 and an M-Audio USB mic preamp/soundcard. The sound cards are often available on ebay or craigslist for good prices.

[nullspace]

I guess I'll have to buy a measuring mic, a soundcard, SPL meter, and some audio software and start measuring the response in different baffles.

I would also recommend a copy of D'Appolito's "Testing Loudspeakers'. You can get your copy from PartsExpress. Arta, SpeakerWorkshop, and the M-Audio Audiophile USB soundcard are all good suggestions, but I'd recommend getting the Behringer ECM8000 calibrated if that's the direction you go. Mine is off by about 6dB at 11khz.

Regards,
John

[Michael V]

I'm a little skeptical of the coating on the TT's, but hopefully they sound great.  What is the supposed benefit?

[painkiller]

I'm a little skeptical of the coating on the TT's, but hopefully they sound great.  What is the supposed benefit?

The coating is supposed to give extended high frequency response.

I don't know how much it affects other parameters though. It could worsen beaming, and it could affect SPL. But I'm no expert at this. I guess I'll just have to listen and see if I like it. Perhaps I can measure the response and compare to Lynn's measurements. Any special reason why you're skeptical?

[painkiller]

I would also recommend a copy of D'Appolito's "Testing Loudspeakers''. You can get your copy from PartsExpress. Arta, SpeakerWorkshop, and the M-Audio Audiophile USB soundcard are all good suggestions, but I'd recommend getting the Behringer ECM8000 calibrated if that's the direction you go. Mine is off by about 6dB at 11khz.

Ouch, 6dB off is quite a bit. Don't know how I could calibrate it though. Maybe I'll have to buy something thats pre calibrated. Could get something like this instead: http://www.juicehifi.com/index.html but it's a bit more expensive.

I've been looking at the M-audio USB soundcard. It's seems like a cost effective solution. I'll also check out Arta and SpeakerWorkshop. Thanks to gitarretyp and nullspace for the tips.

[iON]

I'm a little skeptical of the coating on the TT's, but hopefully they sound great.  What is the supposed benefit?

The coating is supposed to give extended high frequency response.

I don't know how much it affects other parameters though. It could worsen beaming, and it could affect SPL. But I'm no expert at this. I guess I'll just have to listen and see if I like it. Perhaps I can measure the response and compare to Lynn's measurements. Any special reason why you're skeptical?

I would be very vary about coating this driver... I don't think it would improve the HF response.

Coating increases MMS of the driver. Increased MMS means lower sensitivity, 1 - 2 dB probably (depending on how much is applied). It will likely _degrade_ the frequency response as well.

The TT is cherished by a lots of people for its sweet sound, and (according to Lynn Olson) has very little problems with cone break up. Why jeopardize this with coating? (I would surely not coat something I haven't listened to uncoated either). It doesn't make sense to me, Sorry.

BTW, Brown soun is offering different degrees of doping on their cones (3 different I believe) to adjust the brightness balance of sound. Perhaps that is something to have a look at?

[nullspace]

Has someone confirmed that LO listened to the ToneTubby with the original, undopped H1 cone? To the best of my knowledge, Lynn listened to them in the last couple of years, when the H1E cone came standard -- the H1 would have had to be special ordered.

I don't know one way or the other, but it would be worth figuring out before basing purchasing decisions on Lynn's listening experiences.

Regards,
John

[nullspace]

Ouch, 6dB off is quite a bit. Don't know how I could calibrate it though.

You could get Kim Girardin to calibrate it for you. If you search over at diyAudio, you'll see that there are plenty of satisfied customers. Costs about $40 bucks. I can send you contact info if you're interested.

If you'd like to buy something pre-calibrated, check out the LinearX M31. I don't have any experience with it, but it looks pretty solid and the price is decent.

Regards,
John

[Michael V]

The coating is supposed to give extended high frequency response.

Any special reason why you're skeptical?

Pretty much what iON spells out above.  Just to add to what he posted, let's not forget that these speakers are designed and marketed to guitar users.  This is not a criticism, just a fact - their sonic priorities are just not the same as hi-fi manufacturers - so I would want to hear them first before considering an [irreversible?] tweak like that.

I wondered the same thing about Lynn Olsen's tests - anybody know if he was listening to untreated cones?