[boead]

Environmental Group Hits Apple
Climate Counts, a nonprofit organization that aims to directing consumers toward the greenest companies, rated Apple last among electronic firms.

By Antone Gonsalves
InformationWeek
May 9, 2008 04:09 PM


Apple's lack of progress in combating global warming makes it a company to avoid by the climate-conscious consumer, a nonprofit group said.
In its second annual Company Scorecard, Climate Counts, a nonprofit organization dedicated to directing consumers toward the greenest companies, gave Apple 11 points out of a possible 100, placing the company last among electronic firms. IBM (NYSE: IBM) had the best score at 77, followed by Canon (NYSE: CAJ), 74; and Toshiba, 70.

The closest company to Apple was Dell (Dell), which had a score of 49. Dell and Nokia, 37, were described as a "good choice" for the environmentally conscious, while all other electronic companies listed, with the exception of Apple, were rated as "the best Climate Counts choice."
Apple was the only electronics company to get a "stuck" icon next to its name, meaning it's "a choice to avoid for the climate conscious consumer," the group said.

In rating electronic companies, Climate Counts, which released its scorecard this week, takes a look at whether they are reducing production-related emissions that contribute to global warming, making products that require less energy, and taking back products that are obsolete. The group uses a total of 22 criteria. In releasing the ratings, Climate Counts doesn't give details on individual companies.

Apple is no stranger to criticism from environmental groups. Greenpeace in October criticized the company for failing to take steps to phase out hazardous chemicals used in the iPhone. The group said the smartphone contains chlorinated plastic polyvinyl chloride and "brominated flame retardants" that can be harmful to the environment.


 

[mateo]

 

[jaywills]

"Apple's lack of progress in combating global warming"

My kind of company.  BTW, isn't Algore on their board?

[Crimson]

Please folks, no politics allowed.

Please keep it innocent or this thread gets locked.

Thanks.

[mattyturner]

Was this done this year??

http://climatecounts.org/scorecard_score.php?co=7

Climate Counts found no publicly available information on Apple’s efforts to measure its companywide impact on global warming

They obviously didn't look very hard.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/

I personally see a difference between a 'green' company and one that specifically targets 'global warming'. Theoretically you could be good at global warming and never recycle anything. Would that be a green company? So apple isn't on the global warming band wagon... i guess you either buy into it or you don't. I think their are much bigger environmental problems than climate change that need to be addressed.

Maybe apple should get good points with regards to positive climate change now that the data suggests we are cooling?

[boead]

Guitar Center is doing its part to help the environment and reduce its carbon footprint. The company stopped using wooden pallets in shipments between its stores and its distribution center, choosing to floor-load the products instead. And they stopped using shrink-wrap. The result? Guitar Center will save 8 million pounds of lumber and 70 million square feet of plastic per year. That’s enough plastic to create a path four feet wide from New York to Los Angeles. Wow.

Even more, these changes made their shipments more efficient, conserving more than 383,000 gallons of diesel fuel. (VERY COOL)

[Loftprojection]

Apple may not be the greenest in terms of production but it is definitely the greenest in terms of longevity of their components, one thing I don't think these so called "studies" take into consideration. 

If you change your "Intel/Windows" computer every two or three years because it is broken or obsolete I'm sure you are wasting much more material and creating a much worst environment problem then if you use a "less green" Apple computer but keep it for 10 years because IT WORKS!  I have a friend who has the tiny 12" Macbook, recently he installed Leopard on it and it works flawlessly, it's even faster then before.  He was going to change it for the new Macbook Air but finally decided it wasn't worth it.

Anyway, shame on Apple for having such bad results compared to other companies but I don't feel that bad about it considering that I'll probably keep my Macbook longuer then if I had got myself a Dell or Toshiba...

[nathanm]

I'd like to see a more modular computer system that started out with an overbuilt base system which was upgraded over time with superior processor and memory chips.  I just look at the Powermac case and cannot fathom every throwing such a thing "away".  It's like, why not use this chunk of aluminum indefinitely?  What could possibly wear out on it?  It would be cool to move away from the "disposable" model and more towards using our electronic gadgets for decades and only replacing certain components.  Would it be possible to design a motherboard that could accomodate the next 10 years of processor development?  Hmmm.

[mateo]

I'd like to see a more modular computer system that started out with an overbuilt base system which was upgraded over time with superior processor and memory chips.  I just look at the Powermac case and cannot fathom every throwing such a thing "away".  It's like, why not use this chunk of aluminum indefinitely?  What could possibly wear out on it?  It would be cool to move away from the "disposable" model and more towards using our electronic gadgets for decades and only replacing certain components.  Would it be possible to design a motherboard that could accomodate the next 10 years of processor development?  Hmmm.

No, not at all.

What may get you there is the growing integration of "stuff" on a CPU, most notably memory controllers and soon graphics.  These components usually undergo the most frequent and significant changes, and so there is the promise of swapping out only a CPU to accomplish a much larger upgrade.  But, changes in I/O options and RAM standards- or in the case of laptops, case design, display tech, size/weight, etc.- are certainly not going to wait around for 10 years, or even 5, apparently (DDR3, WTF?), so motherboard and/or platform swapping will still happen.

The thing is, a desktop computer system is already about as modular as you can get.  It's the OEM's (Apple, Dell, etc.) business model that turns it into one monolithic piece.  However, it's not like you can just ignore certain components, as they all improve over time, and when upgrading/getting a new computer one is likely to invest in that upgrade.  But, kind of in the spirit of your original goal, those of us who have been building systems for a while kind of do that already; for example, one HDD might last over the course of three or so mobo/CPU combos.  OEMs could probably offer a send-it-in-and-upgrade-only-the-CPU/mobo service, but perhaps the labor cost would outweight the cost of an entirely new computer.

[mateo]

If you change your "Intel/Windows" computer every two or three years because it is broken or obsolete...

Oh, teh fanbois

Seriously, you can find crap or you can find or build good stuff on the "Intel/Windows" side, which, incidentally, Macs belong to now too.  It is easier to find crap on the traditionally Windows side, true, but its not like Apple is immune or something.  Just pick whatever products you like to work with best and/or do the best job for your needs.

It's also interesting how I have Intel/WinXP builds from 2003-2004 working beautifully.  That's five years, not two or three, and they have a lot of life left in them.

I feel kind of dirty because I feel like I'm coming across like the equivalent of an obnoxious audio objectivist hatin on all the audiophile fools.  Apple makes good stuff, but God, the fanboism is suffocating.

[Double Ugly]

Apple makes good stuff, but God, the fanboism is suffocating.

Pretty strong statement from one who wasn't born until several years after many of us began working on and with computers... professionally.

You should note the circle you're in, mateo, and act accordingly.

[Bemopti123]

I understand where Mateo is coming from, everyone's experience is valid to his/her perspective, but attempting to stretch it beyond what is reasonable, will smell like propaganda and how Mateo calls it "fanbois" and the Izm attached to it. 

While your experience with a Windows Xp machine is valid, it is also a stretch to think that one's personal experience will be valid in a larger scale.  I got a Dell box, which I paid almost $1600 about 4 years ago, it is loaded with Xp and other good hardware goodies, but the grief it has given me, in terms of HD failure and software compatibility issue forced me to check into the fanbois' camp and armed with my MacMini G4, a puny machine, which even I did not take seriously, have surprised me in making it my main computer for the past 2 1/2 years. 

My apple experience has been infinitely more pleasurable and trouble free at a far lesser cost than with that Dell box I have occupying premium space on my desk. 

BTW, this thread has started as a "look how bad Apple is in terms of XXXX."

Might as well make all this sort of threads group therapy threads to vent on those companies we do not personally or particularly like.

[jon_010101]

It's also interesting how I have Intel/WinXP builds from 2003-2004 working beautifully.  That's five years, not two or three, and they have a lot of life left in them.

At my old office, every Mac purchased since 2000 was still in use.  My parents still use a first-generation eMac on a daily basis. 

But, I also have a 1997 PC that I used up until last year.  I built it with some $$$ parts, including the finest AT motherboard I could find, and the brand new nvidia riva 128 (spent $192 for that 4 meg graphics card, but my Quake framerates were fantastic).  I refused to upgrade to XP, sticking to 2000.  But, now I can't imagine having to use Windows again.   

I spent much of the late 90s trash-talking Macs, but after OS X and XP came out my perspective changed quickly -- my laptop and work machines have been Macs since 2002.  It's hard not to be a Mac fanboi at this point in time. 

I'm rocking an 8-core MacPro with 8 gigs RAM, and dual 20" studio displays... the PC guys in my office are clearly jealous 

[mateo]

I've tried to keep it level, and give credit to Apple where it is due.  I'm actually something of an Apple fan right now, even though not all of their products do it for me.  It's just that the over-the-top Windows/generic-x86-PC comments one sometimes encounters do such a discredit to Apple's quality products; I can identify with jon_010101's former Apple bashing, and it is precisely these sorts of attitudes that fueled it for me back in the day.  People have preferences, and hey, if you love your Mac, that's great, I'm not trying to take away from that.  I would just like to see the "attempting to stretch it (one's experiences) beyond the reasonable" idea be applied to both sides of the issue.

Double Ugly, I probably was a bit over the top, and I apologize for coming across too rough.  I've been heavily in other Mac forums recently poking around at various things and I let my frustration creep over.  However, I fail to see how the validity of my opinion has anything to do with my age, and I would stand by strong statements I make regarding a long-standing hobby of mine regardless of these sorts of circumstances.

[jon_010101]

I can identify with jon_010101's former Apple bashing, and it is precisely these sorts of attitudes that fueled it for me back in the day. 

I bashed Apples in the mid-90s because they were slow, unstable, and clunky due to an outdated operating system -- I bash PCs now for the exact same reason

[mateo]

I can identify with jon_010101's former Apple bashing, and it is precisely these sorts of attitudes that fueled it for me back in the day. 

I bashed Apples in the mid-90s because they were slow, unstable, and clunky due to an outdated operating system -- I bash PCs now for the exact same reason

XP is clunky, but not really slow IMHO.  Vista is a bit slower, which is worrisome, but it is really slick, especially with the sophistication of the new Windows Explorer and system-wide search used as a run command (just two off the top of my head).  Little touches that add up.

I've played around with Leopard extensively in our campus Mac labs, but OS X is "off" just enough to irritate me.  Really nice touches everywhere, but I guess I'm too used to habit.  Personal opinion, and if I were stuck w/ XP, I'd be more tempted to switch.  I also really, really like the Office 2007 ribbon interface, and that's enough to keep me in the Windows camp anyway.  Dell's drool-worthy new Latitudes coming this June don't hurt, either

But, I'm 94.9% sure that an iTouch will be my music library interface (either through iPeng/SqueezeCenter on NAS or iTunes on a Mac Mini), and I'm looking into Front Row for movie playback right now as well.

Wow, sorry for the thread tangent, but I'm not going to touch the original topic any further.

[Double Ugly]

However, I fail to see how the validity of my opinion has anything to do with my age, and I would stand by strong statements I make regarding a long-standing hobby of mine regardless of these sorts of circumstances.

It has to do with a wider frame of reference, experience, a greater historical perspective from what we've read, done, fixed, programmed and tinkered with over the course of more than 2 decades.

I'm not knocking your age, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.  That said, to expect something less than fandom in a circle specific to Mac computers and their users is curious at best.  Toss in a mocking "fanboism" reference and you have my response.

FWIW, I received my Comp. Sci. degree 22 years ago, and I used, programmed and managed MS-based computers exclusively until less than 2 years ago.  Since I'll never willingly go back, I guess I'm a "fanboi."

[mateo]

However, I fail to see how the validity of my opinion has anything to do with my age, and I would stand by strong statements I make regarding a long-standing hobby of mine regardless of these sorts of circumstances.

It has to do with a wider frame of reference, experience, a greater historical perspective from what we've read, done, fixed, programmed and tinkered with over the course of more than 2 decades.

I'm not knocking your age, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I'm not trying to deny greater experience.  It honestly seemed like you were knocking my age and talking down to me like I was some silly little boy.  I suppose that could be understood considering the tone of my original post.  I'm settled on this point now, no more problems here

[dead horse]
I guess here's the best way to express my whole "fanboi" thing: If you love Apple stuff, won't go back to because you love it, and want to support it and spread the word, great, go right ahead.  Be positive.  If you need to be negative to properly express your experience, OK, but the negativity has just been, in my opinion, so overreaching and unbalanced.
[/dead horse]

[Crimson]

OK, then. Now that we have the definition of fanboi settled, let's move on.   

Thanks.

[nathanm]

Is it supposed to have French pronunciation?