New kit, Neo-2X

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TRADERXFAN

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #40 on: 24 Jun 2008, 04:05 pm »
I really don't think Danny wants to be in the woodworking business...  :)

Probably have better luck with a cabinet guy...

Danny Richie

Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #41 on: 24 Jun 2008, 04:15 pm »
Quote
Some questions about upgrades...how much benefit from each one, and how much bang for the buck?

The Sonicaps and Mills resistors are the most improvement.

TRADERXFAN is correct. I really don't have time to become a woodworker. I can't even find the time to build my own test boxes anymore.

The best idea is to have a guy like Denny (daygloworange), that has a CNC machine, slice up a bunch of these for you guys. Then you can paint them however you want and the drivers will drop right in.

videocrew

Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #42 on: 25 Jun 2008, 03:17 am »
Hell, I don't care who does it, if these new gizmos are as good as you say I'd pay Kim Jong Il to do it if he had a CNC machine. Somebody should offer the service and the business will come, and at pretty low overhead I would imagine...

Hank

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #43 on: 25 Jun 2008, 11:20 am »
Well, I could do a few for the 20 clams apiece, but a pro cabinet shop like Denny's could take the PE baffles, or raw MDF cut to size, and CNC route them in no time for the same or less money.  Denny could probably do 50 in an hour.  Our CAD guy here built himself a CNC table with a plasma torch attachment for cutting metal, and a router attachment.  I could ask him what he would charge to CNC route PE baffles or blank 3/4" MDF...if there's enough interest and if he has the time.

Optichammer

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X BAFFLES FOR HIRE
« Reply #44 on: 26 Jun 2008, 02:17 am »
Okay Guys,
Get everyone together and we'll have a baffle party at my CNC machine. Seriously, If I'm gonna route baffles, might as well be enough for everyone. Drop me a PM and we'll get it done in short order. I just built a pair of OB-9's. Danny has a gift.

klh

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #45 on: 26 Jun 2008, 03:16 am »
... I just built a pair of OB-9's. Danny has a gift.
Did I miss something??? Please divulge!!!

KenShelton

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #46 on: 26 Jun 2008, 04:48 am »
I could assemble GR-Research speakers in Parts Express cabinets for people as well as routing the front baffles.  No CNC stuff, just a router and a Jasper circle cutting jig.  I need to build my own Neo 2X speakers first.


Ken

Trafford

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #47 on: 27 Jun 2008, 08:35 pm »
Could the Neo 2X be placed in the PE 1.0 cu. ft. cabinets with a front port to get a lower bottom end or would the larger volume of the Madisound 38L cabinet be necessary to get closer to 40hz as mentioned in an earlier post?

I just listened to the MA RS6's, how would these compare? In the Madisound cabinets with the upgraded crossover the price would be similar and it would be a little lower in the PE cabinets.

Danny Richie

Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #48 on: 27 Jun 2008, 08:43 pm »
1.0 cubic feet is the optimal ported enclosure for the M-165X woofer.

Most of the prefab 1.0 cubic foot enclosures start to get a little wide though. That will add surface reflections which will disrupt the response and restrict imaging.

Quote
I just listened to the MA RS6's, how would these compare?

What are the MA RS6's?

ebag4

Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #49 on: 27 Jun 2008, 08:45 pm »
What is the optimal baffle width for the Neo1 and Neo2?

Thanks,
Ed

Danny Richie

Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #50 on: 27 Jun 2008, 08:53 pm »
See basic box plans.

This one is for the Neo-2X with small sealed box: http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/Neo-2X%20box.pdf

Here are the box plans for the ported Neo-1X box: http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/Neo-1X%20box.pdf

Trafford

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #51 on: 27 Jun 2008, 10:05 pm »
Sorry for the abbreviation. It's the Monitor Audio RS6. They have recieved a lot of good reviews, which I know is "in the ear of the beholder". I liked them but I noticed as you moved around the sound changes a bit and they seem to be power hungry. I am just trying to build a decent 2 channel set up (CD, int. amp, speakers, possibly a tuner) without exceeding $2000.

I have never done DIY before but I'm pretty handy with tools. I wasn't sure if I could build cabinets nice enough so the wife would let me put them in the living room.

Danny Richie

Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #52 on: 27 Jun 2008, 11:35 pm »
Trafford,

I'll let you guys tell me what they better.

What I will tell you is this: I have been doing this (designing speakers) for quite a while now, and I have designed a lot of mini monitors for myself, individuals, and several other companies.

Mini monitors that I have designed or designed crossovers for, just in the last two years, have won and "Exceptional Value award", a "Best of 2006 award", a "Budget loudspeaker of the year award", a "Product of the year award", a "Blue Moon Award", a "Reviewers’ Choice Award", a "Mid-priced speaker of the year award", and a " Design and Engineering Innovations Award".

So I am not too bad with mini monitors. I know them pretty well.

That said, I think the Neo-2X will hold its own with any mini monitor regardless of price. It won't be embarrassed or beat up on by anything. It's a top class performer, and it will easily outperform and outclass a lot of speakers.

Trafford

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #53 on: 28 Jun 2008, 12:01 am »
I am familiar with your reputation as an exceptional speaker designer, particularly monitors. That is what attracts me to the Neo 2X. I own some Onix products and learned about some of your designs on their site. I also got to hear some of your work at last year's RMAF. I am extremely interested in a high performing monitor but I absolutely love the blues so I was looking for something that would go low enough to provide the necessary foundation for that music. I was actually waiting for the SWG speakers but when I saw this design I thought maybe I would be better off with a design that was 100% yours. My only concern was the bottom end, which generated my question about the ported design. The question about the RS6 was just to provide me with some sonic reference since I just heard that speaker. Terms like detailed, bright or laid-back don't help me much. Off axis effects can be easily experienced so that was easy for me to grasp. Perhaps I'm overly concerned about frequency response but with the blues, jazz and clasical music I enjoy on my two channel set up, I assumed that the low end was relatively important.

I assume that the larger PE enclosures you refer to in the beginning of this post is the .5 cu. ft. boxes. PE lists them with a 8.5" front. The 1.0 cu. ft. boxes are listed with a 9" front. Do I need to find something with 1.0 cu. ft. of internal volume and a 8.5" front to get close to 40 hz or am I worrying too much about the low end? I woud really appreciate any guidance you can give. As you can probably tell, I am newbie with speaker building and I need help with some of the more difficult decisions.

phoenix_rising

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #54 on: 28 Jun 2008, 12:11 am »
See basic box plans.

This one is for the Neo-2X with small sealed box: http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/Neo-2X%20box.pdf

Here are the box plans for the ported Neo-1X box: http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/Neo-1X%20box.pdf

They look like they are both for the neo 1x.

TRADERXFAN

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #55 on: 28 Jun 2008, 01:07 am »
 :scratch: -It looks to me that the links are correct... maybe your adobe didn't refresh with the second pdf?

Rocket

Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #56 on: 28 Jun 2008, 01:29 am »
Hi Tratford,

Many years ago I owned a pair of Monitor Audio 352's and at the time of thought they were a great pair of speakers.  Over the years I've learnt quite a bit about speakers and hifi components.

The monitor audio will more than likely use cheaper speaker components, thinner walls in the cabinet and the xover would be almost a joke compared to how Danny designs his speakers.  Whilst reviews are always subjective I would suggest that he has the runs on the board.  His company is a small manufacturer and with less exposure compared with Monitor Audio which has been in the industry for a long time.

I haven't heard Danny's speakers but I would definitely buy a pair if I lived in the US.  Shipping speakers are almost a deal killer to Australia.  Is there any chance you can get to hear one of Danny's designs in the US?

Good luck with your speaker shopping.

Regards

Rod

TRADERXFAN

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #57 on: 28 Jun 2008, 01:38 am »
I am familiar with your reputation as an exceptional speaker designer, particularly monitors. That is what attracts me to the Neo 2X. I own some Onix products and learned about some of your designs on their site. I also got to hear some of your work at last year's RMAF. I am extremely interested in a high performing monitor but I absolutely love the blues so I was looking for something that would go low enough to provide the necessary foundation for that music. I was actually waiting for the SWG speakers but when I saw this design I thought maybe I would be better off with a design that was 100% yours. My only concern was the bottom end, which generated my question about the ported design. The question about the RS6 was just to provide me with some sonic reference since I just heard that speaker. Terms like detailed, bright or laid-back don't help me much. Off axis effects can be easily experienced so that was easy for me to grasp. Perhaps I'm overly concerned about frequency response but with the blues, jazz and clasical music I enjoy on my two channel set up, I assumed that the low end was relatively important.

I assume that the larger PE enclosures you refer to in the beginning of this post is the .5 cu. ft. boxes. PE lists them with a 8.5" front. The 1.0 cu. ft. boxes are listed with a 9" front. Do I need to find something with 1.0 cu. ft. of internal volume and a 8.5" front to get close to 40 hz or am I worrying too much about the low end? I woud really appreciate any guidance you can give. As you can probably tell, I am newbie with speaker building and I need help with some of the more difficult decisions.

No one can tell you what you like, but I was in your same position not too long ago (worried about various theoretical concerns about bass and sound quality) but ultimately decided to take the plunge on a kit (and bought a pre-cut wood flat pack to build the enclosure). The result exceeded my hopes in several dimensions. My wife had the same concerns yours prob does. She even thinks it sounds much better than what I used before, and said she would have never thought I built them when she looks at them.
You put yourself in good hands with Danny, trust him. If he says these are excellent, you don't have to worry you can be sure you will LOVE them, -as long as you set them up as recommended.

A factor beyond simply the design that separates these kits from what you could buy, from say, av123, is the parts quality. Don't underestimate the impact of the better parts on your musical experience.

As to the question of enough low end... -would you be using them with the gr servo sub?  If so, you would never think about that last 10 hz here or there...

I guess what I am trying to say, is that you could just buy something that's really good, OR you could make something absolutely GREAT for about the same money. Its up to you how much of your time and energy you want to put into it.

click the link below to see what I made...


Danny Richie

Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #58 on: 28 Jun 2008, 03:21 pm »
Quote
I am extremely interested in a high performing monitor but I absolutely love the blues so I was looking for something that would go low enough to provide the necessary foundation for that music.

One option is to build a ported floor standing version.

The other option is to add a single direct servo sub. This option takes it over the top and makes a full range system out of it. It can also be tuned and adjusted as per any room.

Quote
Off axis effects can be easily experienced so that was easy for me to grasp. Perhaps I'm overly concerned about frequency response but with the blues, jazz and clasical music I enjoy on my two channel set up,

Off axis response is very important. If you have a dipped out response when you stand up or get out of the sweet spot then it could also mean that the overall in room response can also have a dipped out area.

We don't just hear the on axis response.

Likewise, if the output is even and consistent in all directions then it is more likely to have an even overall room response.

Measurements on the Neo-2X can be seen on the first page.

For a comparison you can see the measurements of bunch of other mini-monitors over here: http://www.stereomojo.com/Small%20Speaker%20Shootout%202007/StereomojoSmallSpeakerShootout2007Measurements.htm  There are two pages of them.

Quote
Shipping speakers are almost a deal killer to Australia.

Maybe, but despite that I have shipped a lot of products out to Australia in the last month.

Quote
They look like they are both for the neo 1x.

One box is 20% larger than the other.

Trafford

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Re: New kit, Neo-2X
« Reply #59 on: 28 Jun 2008, 04:36 pm »
Danny,

I would really like to get the best low end I can out of the Neo 2X and avoid a sub. You said most of the PE & Madisound premade cabinsets are too wide. Are you aware of any other pre-made cabinets that would work or am I looking at building my own?

The biggest thing stopping me from making my own cabinets is the veneer but I am also short some power tools, mainly a router.

Traderxfan,

I want a clean sounding speaker with good bass but without hearing them, I don't know if the sound will appeal to me. I have AV123 speakers (RS550's) that I like for home theater but I don't like their sound for music unless they are played at very loud volumes. I love the value associated with kit speakers especially those designed by some of the folks here on Audio Circle. The only problem is that I have to buy before hearing. I'm still trying to learn what the terms people use to describe the sound of various speakers mean. Tell a speaker is bright or laid back and it means nothing to me. Play me a speaker for 5 minutes and I can tell you whether or not I like it. I know speakers are a matter of taste, I just don't know how to describe my tastes. I figure going with a design from Danny, Kevin Haskins or Rick Craig is a safe bet as long as their design style and goals fits my tastes. I'm down to the Neo 2X, the Keppler and the California monitor, from them respectively. I just don't know which one to pick, although I am leaning heavily towards the Neo 2X.